Cesky 0 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 The thing about Gaga/Madonna is I think people need to have some perspective. If Gaga is lucky enough to have a career as long as Madonna's, you better bet she going to have all these same types of criticisms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illuminati Freak 2,432 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) LUV Madonna & GaGa for that matter but why is that some of the M stans think everything Madge does is an "homage" and GaGa just does "rip offs"????? It's quite the hypocrisy that really is annoying. I think that's what puts some people off on both sides. Fashion, Music, & Art is a cyclic process, everything comes around and repeats itself & borrows from the next reinterpreting and re-inventing for the next generation. Nothing is original. I think Madonna is the Queen of this "cyclic process" and nobody better than her understands this and made a career based on it. She made things of the past her own and gave it the Madonna spin. I think nobody has come closer to understanding this is GaGa. Edited July 25, 2012 by Illuminati Freak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest theFuture Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 LUV Madonna & GaGa for that matter but why is that some of the M stans think everything Madge does is an "homage" and GaGa just does "rip offs"????? It's quite the hypocrisy that really is annoying. I think that's what puts some people off on both sides. I really dislike the word "rip-off" as much as I hate the word "homage." Both expressions are such vague and subjective things to say, especially when it comes to visual arts. I personally have no problem with one thing being influenced by another. May it be a song, a video, a photo series or simply an opinion expressed. As long as the artistic output doesn't lack credibility and authenticity. And I must admit that very often, I have seen this - and I know that this is very subjective - in other pop stars' works. The term "reductive" really does apply here. But Gaga is not one of those whose creation gets a life on its own leading back to its "original" creator. She is able to create out of its context and redefines it. So is Madonna. And this is why I see the thousand accusations of "ripping off" Hollywood's iconic imagery as just as ridiculous as the countless things said about Gaga. Their creations don't lack credibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 680 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) The thing about Gaga/Madonna is I think people need to have some perspective. If Gaga is lucky enough to have a career as long as Madonna's, you better bet she going to have all these same types of criticisms. It's a good bet that if Gaga lasts 20 years her career will be seen as relying more on talent and less on s-x than Madonna's. So she'll have more to fall back on and will get less of the peculiar schedenfraude reserved for the beauty that ages. LUV Madonna & GaGa for that matter but why is that some of the M stans think everything Madge does is an "homage" and GaGa just does "rip offs"????? It's quite the hypocrisy that really is annoying. Yes, and equally annoying is the hypocrisy that complains about Twitter Monsters but seems unaware that Madonna stans have done the same thing to her rivals for decades. Edited July 25, 2012 by craig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illuminati Freak 2,432 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I really dislike the word "rip-off" as much as I hate the word "homage." Both expressions are such vague and subjective things to say, especially when it comes to visual arts. I personally have no problem with one thing being influenced by another. May it be a song, a video, a photo series or simply an opinion expressed. As long as the artistic output doesn't lack credibility and authenticity. And I must admit that very often, I have seen this - and I know that this is very subjective - in other pop stars' works. The term "reductive" really does apply here. But Gaga is not one of those whose creation gets a life on its own leading back to its "original" creator. She is able to create out of its context and redefines it. So is Madonna. And this is why I see the thousand accusations of "ripping off" Hollywood's iconic imagery as just as ridiculous as the countless things said about Gaga. Their creations don't lack credibility. Couldn't agree with you more on this. ;) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illuminati Freak 2,432 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Yes, and equally annoying is the hypocrisy that complains about Twitter Monsters but seems unaware that Madonna stans have done the same thing to her rivals for decades. I agree with you on this. M fans have gone after many other competitors with a vengeance before GaGa came along. I've seen Madonna fans tweet GaGa wishing she was dead calling her a **** and ugly etc. They have even gone after her Father with obscene comments. Not to mention the "fat" comments Mariah Carey has endured over the years. It's not just "Little Monsters" who come across as bully's another hypocrisy. They paint the picture GaGa should be held accountable for these crazy loons. Well if thats the case Madonna should as well. But let's be serious you really think a Popstar gives a **** about stan wars and the bat **** crazy stuff that comes out of the mouths of these loons? It's ludicrous to think that Madonna & GaGa are to blame and should be responsible for such vermin. Edited July 25, 2012 by Illuminati Freak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest theFuture Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 It's a good bet that if Gaga lasts 20 years her career will be seen as relying more on talent and less on s-x than Madonna's. So she'll have more to fall back on and will get less of the peculiar schedenfraude reserved for the beauty that ages. It's schadenfreude, by the way. And if all Madonna based her career on was s-x, she wouldn't have had one. It takes talent and knowledge to use s-x as the strategy to push the social envelope and earn money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy 0 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 It's not ageism is Madonna's lyrics, looks, and attitude no longer speaks to her 35-55 year old fans, or they resent her trying so hard to be "down with the kidz." If she handled herself better she'd get a better break from a media that is, after all, more her generation than Gaga's. But many commentators see "Mother Monster" as more mature than the "Material Girl." http://www.thestar.c...no-shock-at-all But this is ageist - and who are you to determine what her lyrics looks and attitude speak to? I'm sure plenty of 35-55 year olds can relate to lyrics about divorce and having your money taken. In fact, much more so than teens... LUV Madonna & GaGa for that matter but why is that some of the M stans think everything Madge does is an "homage" and GaGa just does "rip offs"????? Because Madonna never called comparison's to Monroe's imagery "retarded". And in fact, Madonna always was upfront about her appropriation of imagery from old starlets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky 39 Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 The MDNA era will go down in history as the time when Madonna defied ageism and paved the way for female artists and women aged 50+. It all will be rewarded as another major influence Madonna had on society in general. I can already see this. Think of Erotica and the Sex book and how the media bashed her back then. And now look at how it gets recieved today. Word. :tea: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest theFuture Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Because Madonna never called comparison's to Monroe's imagery "retarded". And in fact, Madonna always was upfront about her appropriation of imagery from old starlets. Well, not really. Madonna did intentionally deny to have adapted Monroe's imagery in 1992. But most of her behavior during interviews of that period seemed rather strange to me. The extreme media response to her various scandals of that time just made her exacerbate the Dita character. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 680 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Because Madonna never called comparison's to Monroe's imagery "retarded". And in fact, Madonna always was upfront about her appropriation of imagery from old starlets. Neither did Gaga call the comparisons retarded - that is a misquote. It was a rhetorical question, more like: do you think I would be so retarded as to intentionally steal from a famous song by a women I'm always compared to? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy 0 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 But many commentators see "Mother Monster" as more mature than the "Material Girl." http://www.thestar.c...no-shock-at-all What those commentators fail to realize, that the Huffington Post astutely picks up on, is that by saying "she doesn't need to be a ****, that we don't need to cut each other etc." that she did respond by way of counterattack to Madonna however subversively. Neither did Gaga call the comparisons retarded - that is a misquote. It was a rhetorical question, more like: do you think I would be so retarded as to intentionally steal from a famous song by a women I'm always compared to? She didn't? I have the article at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest theFuture Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Lady Gaga has described accusations that she has copied Madonna's 1989 track 'Express Yourself' in her single 'Born This Way' as "retarded". Speaking in this week's issue of NME, available to buy online now and in shops nationwide, the singer dismissed the suggestion as "moronic". She said that she believed the only similarity between the two songs are "the chord progression. The same one that's been in disco music for the last 50 years." She added: "I am not stupid enough to put a record out and be that moronic. Why would I try to put a song out and think I'm getting one over on everybody? That's retarded." http://www.nme.com/news/lady-gaga/56256 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy 0 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Well, not really. Madonna did intentionally deny to have adapted Monroe's imagery in 1992. She did? “A lot of people saw Marilyn Monroe and Judy Garland as persecuted and tragic and vulnerable, and I think a lot of gay men feel that way because of their particular predicament in society. I’m playing with her image and turning it around.†- Madonna Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest theFuture Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) She did? “A lot of people saw Marilyn Monroe and Judy Garland as persecuted and tragic and vulnerable, and I think a lot of gay men feel that way because of their particular predicament in society. I’m playing with her image and turning it around.†- Madonna Sometime in that interview she dismissed references drawn to Marilyn Monroe. EDIT: around 12:20 Edited July 25, 2012 by theFuture Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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