Anyone else who can't stand Beyoncé?

[Dayman 6,167]

I hate her because she uses whatever hot social issues are going on to promote her current albums. Then she just washes her hands of them and moves on. Meanwhile it is all for show and not sincere at all. Yeah, Beyonce is a huge feminist because she sampled a speech about feminism. Oh wow, Beyonce is the BLM spokesperson because she "dedicated" the MV for Formation to the movement. It's all shallow surface level support so people eat out of her hands and it makes me so upset and angry to see an artist do such a thing. There's not a genuine bone in her body if you ask me - it's all about how much star power she can obtain and how much money she can have in her bank account. It feels manipulative.

[KingRedd 3,139]

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

That's exactly it. It just feels like she's locked up in her Hollywood Hills mansion now and is too good to fraternise with us mere mortals. But when you sell as much as her, you really shouldn't stay this cut off. Reclusive artists tend to be the ones who don't sell much, hence, they don't feel the need to be in the public's faces all the time as the majority aren't interested anyway. But Beyonce? She's got big demand for anything she puts her name to. I understand wanting to keep your private life private (though spilling all on her album kinda defeats that point) but not even an interview to discuss your new album? It all leads me to believe that she can't be that involved in the writing and the stuff she sings about is either exaggerated or made up, which would make probing interview questions a bit troublesome. You can tell how involved an artist is from how eager they are to talk indepth about their album. The ones who get ghostwriters and suchlike either have one of those interviews where very little is asked about the music or don't do them at all.

Are you suggesting that females can't criticise one another? That it goes against feminism or something?

1. Because she creates that hype. The SB was one of many things that she was doing throughout 2013 in the run-up to the surprise release. It was all the other stuff she was doing that year that helped the album sell so much. It was to remind the public how good she was, so they'd buy her new album without question. 4 flopping really scared her. Not even having one single go top ten in the US meant she realised that she wasn't a single seller anymore and giving people too many tasters of her new music pre-album wasn't the best way to get sales. So, she came up with this surprise release hoping that the gimmick would make people buy it. She hyped up Lemonade more by having a feature on the SB with a clip of a new song, put said new song in a private YouTube video, put out a visual trailer for the album and put a billboard of herself on the NASDAQ in Times Square the day before release. This is how she works - vague, cryptic messages and exclusives to create hype. She mentions how she's a perfect goddess in her albums as well, hoping that repetition of the phrases she wants associated with her will eventually become associated with her. She's pulling the strings and getting us to believe the image of her she wants us to believe. It's brainwashing and mind control in the most mainstream form.

2. No, instruments are not required to be a legendary performer. But they can help. This is why I think Gaga is better than her as a performer because she's got the full package. Not many female singers can sing, dance and play instruments. There's always one component missing, even in Beyonce's case. Even those who can do all three, like Taylor Swift, isn't as good because she's not a gifted singer and dancer. Gaga can do all these things well, which really boosts her up. I think the best artists are the ones who can do everything well. Doesn't mean everyone else is bad, they're just not as good.

3. Keeping yourself too hidden from the media can also damage your career. Look at Xtina. She completely ostricised herself from the media in lengthy breaks between albums and it brought her sales spiralling downward. Even now, the only thing that she does to keep herself relevant is The Voice and an occasional collab on someone else's song. I feel like she vanished after 2012. Lana's sales have also gone down since she put a halt on promotion and touring after her debut. And never underestimate how not doing promo in certain countries can bring your sales down. Gaga has struggled for relevancy in Australia when she neglected them from AP and onwards. Lana's debut did amazingly in France and Germany but she struggled after that when she restricted herself to America. The UK supported their home-grown Cher Lloyd, but when she moved to America to further her career there and never came back, the UK public dumped her. I'm starting to think that Beyonce could go the same way if she keeps neglecting the rest of the world outside America. The rare time that she does do promo, it's always American promo. She hasn't done a UK promo performance since 2011. She hasn't toured Asia since the I Am... tour. Is it any wonder that her UK album sales have never reached the heights that they have since Sasha Fierce? Is it any wonder that her music no longer sells in Asia? I was shocked when I looked up her UK sales figures. 4, Beyonce and Lemonade combined have only sold just over 1.4 million here. Her last 3 albums combined have sold over 5.3 million in America with 4 alone outselling the UK's total sales with 1.5 million. The future doesn't look bright for her future sales at this rate. That's the price of neglecting the public.

See, I don't think saying it's rooted in black culture gives it much of an excuse. Black singers, including females, have never been more praised than they are now. I don't think Beyonce's ever felt like she's been undermined for her hard work. Her achievements outstrip most white females accomplishments. If anything, critics overrate black musicians more than they ever have before. Personally, I think that Flawless is only empowering if you actually have confidence in yourself to begin with.

Totally agree. I never had problems with dissecting her music until these days. Now it's a case of "white person being critical of a black person's artistic output. That can only mean one thing..." It's ruining musical integrity. I think critics are afraid to give a bad review to a black artist now. I can't remember the last time I saw a truly negative reception for a black artist's album which is odd because there's so much mumble rapping and weird alternative hip hop going on now. Incoherence, pretentiousness and madness is the name of the game. The quality of urban music has gone right down. Rap now just can't touch the 90's golden age. I don't know what the critics today are hearing. We hear all the time about how rap hasn't been good since the 90's, yet critics keep ranking the albums like it's the 90's. Makes no sense.

That's the way I feel as well. Maybe this was something she was just repressing as her dad apparently didn't ever want her to swear on her albums, he liked to keep things PG to ensure big sales and a good reputation. But once he was no longer her manager and in control, she maybe wanted to rebel and make a point of being an independent woman, pardon the pun. But still, it was weird to hear her go from classy sexuality in previous albums to explicitly sexual and swearing like a sailor. When you get a personality 180 like that, it's hard not to consider it a bit fake. Let's be real, people had been saying for years that Rihanna was starting to beat Beyonce at her own game and then suddenly, Beyonce gets more explicit, becomes cooler because that's what you have to do for success. It doesn't exactly seem like a coincidence.

No. I said what other woman can have another woman's fanbase so pressed that they create a negative thread about her every week on a fan site dedicated to someone else- especially on a fan site of a woman who is known for being a symbol of acceptance, tolerance, love, and creativity. 

[StrawberryBlond 14,819]

40 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

I'm not saying contextualizing it in the black experience makes her immune to criticism, just that I think that needs to be kept in mind when critiquing her work and that if you aren't black being aware that you may not be able to pick up on everything going on there as it isn't your experience. To me, I appreciate braggadocious behavior in her music because you see every male black musician under the sun playing it up (her husband included) and bragging about their game or their wealth. Well, as you pointed out, she can outsell almost any of them several times over. It's empowering in that it gives a black woman a position of status otherwise only afforded to black men. She's turning the game on the players and the thugs. So when she says "a diva is a female version of a hustler" she's taking an otherwise demeaning gendered term and assigning it the same power imbibed in a different gender term. It's like, "oh, I'm a diva? Nah, I'm a hustler."

When I say that the work of black women has been undervalued, I'm talking about it being undervalued by both white people and black men. Just undervalued in general and I personally don't think she's always speaking exclusively to her work, though I do think that as a woman she (and other women, Gaga included) has to work a lot harder than a man does to get recognition in the industry, but the work of women (black women in particular it seems more nowadays) in general. Regardless of how well received their material is, for women especially, it's about a lot more than just the material or work being done.

My point is, I agree with you that it doesn't make her immune, just that blackness needs to be considered as it does permeate her work and has since before the self titled and Lemonade. And that something that may appear one way to someone may actually just be out of context and to criticize it without context is doing the work and artist a disservice.

Oh, trust me, I know exactly what she's referring to in all her pro-black statements and imagery. But I don't think that alone makes it good. In the same way that I don't think a woman making pro-feminist statements and imagery is automatically good just because I'm a woman and a feminist. It puzzles me how the black community are willing to accept average or sub-standard depictions of their cause and raise them up, whether good or bad. I believe in judging something on its own merits.

Rap females have had the same bravado that men have had for a long time, though. They have to, if they want to survive. So it's not like Beyonce's doing anything new. And I don't agree with her definition of diva. You can't just change the meaning of it to suit yourself. A diva is either a positive term for a good singer or a negative term for a demanding woman. That's it. If she wants to be known as a hustler, just call yourself a hustler. Thinking that the word hustler is gender specific is a problem in and of itself. I've never looked at it that way and I don't know anyone who does either. If we want equality with men, we have to use the same terms, not feminised versions of male terms. I sometimes think Beyonce doesn't understand the first thing about feminism yet uses it for her own ends.

I get what you're saying when you say that women have to work a lot harder, in rap especially. I totally get that. But I'm talking about critical reception of her work when I'm talking about being valued. I see a lot more black women whose music is respected as opposed to white women. The idea is that white women can't sing as well, rap as well, don't write their own work and just sing about superficial stuff.

I am criticising it in context, though. I think she could be making a far better depiction of black women (except for in the All Night and Love Drought videos, maybe). When she's not relying on stereotypes of ghetto black women, it comes across so much better.

17 minutes ago, CrazyMonster said:

Lmao that's some dedication. Writing a long ass rant about someone you don't like.

At least I'm informed with my stance. Surely it's better to have many detailed reasons about why you dislike someone as opposed to just saying "I hate them" with no explanation, right? There's nothing worse than someone who hates someone but don't have a clue why.

2 minutes ago, KingRedd said:

No. I said what other woman can have another woman's fanbase so pressed that they create a negative thread about her every week on a fan site dedicated to someone else- especially on a fan site of a woman who is known for being a symbol of acceptance, tolerance, love, and creativity. 

I'm sure plenty of other fan forums have rivalries with other artists as well. This is natural. If you go to any genre's fans, there's always someone they could rant about all day long. And I don't know why people continue to mention that Gaga is a symbol of peace and unity, as if her fans have to automatically be like that as well. You can be tolerable and accepting while making fair criticisms and not kissing everyone's ass. Be too nice all the time and not only will that give everyone around you license to act however they want, but you'll be walked over as well.

[Thomas P 18,479]

This thread is a breeding ground for disaster.

Well everyone knows I'm about as big a Bey fan as they come, but I'm sick of trying to counter argue some points that were made, because there isn't a point in me doing it. It's just always baffled me how there's so much hate for her on a site for an artist who is literally her friend. 

[KingRedd 3,139]

2 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Oh, trust me, I know exactly what she's referring to in all her pro-black statements and imagery. But I don't think that alone makes it good. In the same way that I don't think a woman making pro-feminist statements and imagery is automatically good just because I'm a woman and a feminist. It puzzles me how the black community are willing to accept average or sub-standard depictions of their cause and raise them up, whether good or bad. I believe in judging something on its own merits.

Rap females have had the same bravado that men have had for a long time, though. They have to, if they want to survive. So it's not like Beyonce's doing anything new. And I don't agree with her definition of diva. You can't just change the meaning of it to suit yourself. A diva is either a positive term for a good singer or a negative term for a demanding woman. That's it. If she wants to be known as a hustler, just call yourself a hustler. Thinking that the word hustler is gender specific is a problem in and of itself. I've never looked at it that way and I don't know anyone who does either. If we want equality with men, we have to use the same terms, not feminised versions of male terms. I sometimes think Beyonce doesn't understand the first thing about feminism yet uses it for her own ends.

I get what you're saying when you say that women have to work a lot harder, in rap especially. I totally get that. But I'm talking about critical reception of her work when I'm talking about being valued. I see a lot more black women whose music is respected as opposed to white women. The idea is that white women can't sing as well, rap as well, don't write their own work and just sing about superficial stuff.

I am criticising it in context, though. I think she could be making a far better depiction of black women (except for in the All Night and Love Drought videos, maybe). When she's not relying on stereotypes of ghetto black women, it comes across so much better.

At least I'm informed with my stance. Surely it's better to have many detailed reasons about why you dislike someone as opposed to just saying "I hate them" with no explanation, right? There's nothing worse than someone who hates someone but don't have a clue why.

I'm sure plenty of other fan forums have rivalries with other artists as well. This is natural. If you go to any genre's fans, there's always someone they could rant about all day long. And I don't know why people continue to mention that Gaga is a symbol of peace and unity, as if her fans have to automatically be like that as well. You can be tolerable and accepting while making fair criticisms and not kissing everyone's ass. Be too nice all the time and not only will that give everyone around you license to act however they want, but you'll be walked over as well.

So because other pop fanbases trash artists that aren't their favorite, us Monsters should do it too... Weak logic. Hating on someone is not "natural" its's just a way to express negative opinions. People on here use the "its my opinion" phrase to back up their negativity. You don't have to like Beyonce its clear that you don't, but every time she is mentioned on this site majority point out how undeserving or overrated she is. Comments like those are not needed and are strange coming from a fanbase of a woman ho preaches to do the exact opposite. Just because the media and other people enjoy beyonce doesn't mean they are kissing ass. Beyonce, like many other entertainers, have touched the lives of many people. Who knows how many people had their days made, lives saved, or outlook on life changed by watching, listening, or discussing Beyonce. For people here to claim their reasoning for not liking her is because she is too liked is simply hating. Commenting a paragraph per reply, which makes you very dedicated i might add, defending your reasoning of why she shouldn't be as successful as she is is simply hating. Learn to allow others to have a favorite artist and learn to enjoy those that you like rather than ripping apart ones that you don't. Don't add to the already toxic music industry with negativity claiming it to be an opinion. One which this site has heard several times.

[Hades 27,980]

16 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

 

At least I'm informed with my stance. Surely it's better to have many detailed reasons about why you dislike someone as opposed to just saying "I hate them" with no explanation, right? There's nothing worse than someone who hates someone but don't have a clue why.

 

Hate over an artist you don't know in real life is a strong word imo. Listing even 3 pages of arguments wouldn't change the usage of that word. Why people tend to say ''hate'' and not just dislike or not appreciate?

 

[StrawberryBlond 14,819]

13 minutes ago, KingRedd said:

So because other pop fanbases trash artists that aren't their favorite, us Monsters should do it too... Weak logic. Hating on someone is not "natural" its's just a way to express negative opinions. People on here use the "its my opinion" phrase to back up their negativity. You don't have to like Beyonce its clear that you don't, but every time she is mentioned on this site majority point out how undeserving or overrated she is. Comments like those are not needed and are strange coming from a fanbase of a woman ho preaches to do the exact opposite. Just because the media and other people enjoy beyonce doesn't mean they are kissing ass. Beyonce, like many other entertainers, have touched the lives of many people. Who knows how many people had their days made, lives saved, or outlook on life changed by watching, listening, or discussing Beyonce. For people here to claim their reasoning for not liking her is because she is too liked is simply hating. Commenting a paragraph per reply, which makes you very dedicated i might add, defending your reasoning of why she shouldn't be as successful as she is is simply hating. Learn to allow others to have a favorite artist and learn to enjoy those that you like rather than ripping apart ones that you don't. Don't add to the already toxic music industry with negativity claiming it to be an opinion. One which this site has heard several times.

No, not because they do it too but because it's ok to dislike someone and share that opinion. Getting hate out can be good for the system. If we let it all bubble up inside, it would drive us crazy. If the world was full of compliments, nothing would get done and no one would change for the better. You can have a negative opinion, you know - negativity and opinions are not exclusive elements! The comments may not be needed but neither are positive ones. Opinions don't need to be shared, end of, but we're allowed to say them. And you can like her without kissing ass. I'm talking about the ones who rate all her albums perfectly, call her the queen and believe she can do no wrong. That's the kind of blind devotion I'm rallying against. And I really don't care how many lives she's touched, that doesn't mean I should like her. My reasoning goes far beyond "she's too liked." I have real, genuine reasons that you are conveniently avoiding. Sorry, no, but if every artist was praised to high heaven and there was no opposing view, artists would have no want to get better. Some are already in that state. Artists have been taking us for a ride for years, trying hard on the singles but not trying to make a good album. Just thinking we'll buy their stuff because of who they are. No one is immune to criticism.

5 minutes ago, KING ELIZABITCH said:

Hate over an artist you don't know in real life is a strong word imo. Listing even 3 pages of arguments wouldn't change the usage of that word. Why people tend to say ''hate'' and not just dislike or not appreciate?

I meant "dislike" or "not appreciate." I even used the word "dislike" in my reply. I just gave the example of how some people say "I hate _____" but give no clarification why. So, they're hating someone for no reason. And that annoys me. Of course I can't truly cement how I think about Beyonce as I've never met her but the point of celebrity culture is that these people put themselves out there to be judged by us and we decide if we like them and their output or not. It's not the same as disliking someone in, say, your workplace who you've never spoken to.

[Hades 27,980]

Just now, StrawberryBlond said:

 

I meant "dislike" or "not appreciate." I even used the word "dislike" in my reply. I just gave the example of how some people say "I hate _____" but give no clarification why. So, they're hating someone for no reason. And that annoys me. Of course I can't truly cement how I think about Beyonce as I've never met her but the point of celebrity culture is that these people put themselves out there to be judged by us and we decide if we like them and their output or not. It's not the same as disliking someone in, say, your workplace who you've never spoken to.

I absolutely agree. People tend to be overdramatic with the usage of some certain words. I guess the age of the social is not helping much. 

[KingRedd 3,139]

8 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

No, not because they do it too but because it's ok to dislike someone and share that opinion. Getting hate out can be good for the system. If we let it all bubble up inside, it would drive us crazy. If the world was full of compliments, nothing would get done and no one would change for the better. You can have a negative opinion, you know - negativity and opinions are not exclusive elements! The comments may not be needed but neither are positive ones. Opinions don't need to be shared, end of, but we're allowed to say them. And you can like her without kissing ass. I'm talking about the ones who rate all her albums perfectly, call her the queen and believe she can do no wrong. That's the kind of blind devotion I'm rallying against. And I really don't care how many lives she's touched, that doesn't mean I should like her. My reasoning goes far beyond "she's too liked." I have real, genuine reasons that you are conveniently avoiding. Sorry, no, but if every artist was praised to high heaven and there was no opposing view, artists would have no want to get better. Some are already in that state. Artists have been taking us for a ride for years, trying hard on the singles but not trying to make a good album. Just thinking we'll buy their stuff because of who they are. No one is immune to criticism.

I meant "dislike" or "not appreciate." I even used the word "dislike" in my reply. I just gave the example of how some people say "I hate _____" but give no clarification why. So, they're hating someone for no reason. And that annoys me. Of course I can't truly cement how I think about Beyonce as I've never met her but the point of celebrity culture is that these people put themselves out there to be judged by us and we decide if we like them and their output or not. It's not the same as disliking someone in, say, your workplace who you've never spoken to.

Your first three sentences made my decision to discontinue this conversation. We are complete opposite in thinking and values. Hate does not drive the world to a better place. People achieve success through hard work, determination, intelligence, and being able to take constructive criticism. Hate has nothing to do with making someone's life better. 

 

You didn't take in anything that I wrote, which was expected. People idolize Beyonce just as you idolize Gaga. Telling people to only like Beyonce just a little, but not to idolize her is ridiculous and kind of creepy. You feel as though you are the judge of how much an artist, human, can be liked by others and if it is too much, it needs to stop... cringe logic. You have a nice day spreading that much needed hate to make the world a better place. Hope you enjoy the JWT Thread tonight. But not too much because if you enjoy it too much, that's sort of kissing her ass.. so be sure to monitor your excitement. 

[Thomas P 18,479]

13 hours ago, Bat said:

I hate her. She is so fake. I hate her using feminist movement issues while being almost naked on stage, have Jay talk to her like a bit.ch and even call herself a bit.ch.

Gaga does all of this lol. In fact pretty much all female singers do. Guess you hate women who say their feminists but express any type of sexual ambiguity. 

[Ziggy 11,755]

57 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Oh, trust me, I know exactly what she's referring to in all her pro-black statements and imagery. But I don't think that alone makes it good. In the same way that I don't think a woman making pro-feminist statements and imagery is automatically good just because I'm a woman and a feminist. It puzzles me how the black community are willing to accept average or sub-standard depictions of their cause and raise them up, whether good or bad. I believe in judging something on its own merits.

Rap females have had the same bravado that men have had for a long time, though. They have to, if they want to survive. So it's not like Beyonce's doing anything new. And I don't agree with her definition of diva. You can't just change the meaning of it to suit yourself. A diva is either a positive term for a good singer or a negative term for a demanding woman. That's it. If she wants to be known as a hustler, just call yourself a hustler. Thinking that the word hustler is gender specific is a problem in and of itself. I've never looked at it that way and I don't know anyone who does either. If we want equality with men, we have to use the same terms, not feminised versions of male terms. I sometimes think Beyonce doesn't understand the first thing about feminism yet uses it for her own ends.

I get what you're saying when you say that women have to work a lot harder, in rap especially. I totally get that. But I'm talking about critical reception of her work when I'm talking about being valued. I see a lot more black women whose music is respected as opposed to white women. The idea is that white women can't sing as well, rap as well, don't write their own work and just sing about superficial stuff.

I am criticising it in context, though. I think she could be making a far better depiction of black women (except for in the All Night and Love Drought videos, maybe). When she's not relying on stereotypes of ghetto black women, it comes across so much better.

At least I'm informed with my stance. Surely it's better to have many detailed reasons about why you dislike someone as opposed to just saying "I hate them" with no explanation, right? There's nothing worse than someone who hates someone but don't have a clue why.

I'm sure plenty of other fan forums have rivalries with other artists as well. This is natural. If you go to any genre's fans, there's always someone they could rant about all day long. And I don't know why people continue to mention that Gaga is a symbol of peace and unity, as if her fans have to automatically be like that as well. You can be tolerable and accepting while making fair criticisms and not kissing everyone's ass. Be too nice all the time and not only will that give everyone around you license to act however they want, but you'll be walked over as well.

That's totally fair! I wasn't assuming you weren't contextualizing, but I think most people don't when they critique her. I think you're making a totally fair assessment since you're considering the space her work is made in. And your argument is totally defendable so I respect that. Good on you.

[NecroManny 183]

Yeah. I don't see why she is so big. She's ehh

[lavenderblondee 3,695]

I'm going to get so much backlash for this, but for years I've been convinced she's so big cause it's the "cool" thing to like her. People like to like cool things and what's trendy. I seldom hear people talk about enjoying her music, just freaking out about her. I'll hear everyone freak out when she releases an album but then goes silent on the actual content. I have nothing against Beyonce and don't dislike her music, this is just how I feel about it. I've also never once heard a song from her last couple albums on the radio, and I'm confused by this? Always Single Ladies and Irreplacable and that's strictly it. It's like she's so big but when it comes down to it, it's more her image/what people think she stands for, that's popular? It's mystifying to me.

[Manul 7,377]

I'm sure you'll find plenty other envious people around here, hunty.

[djBuffoon 12,115]

I'm of two minds about her. I think she's talented, and she has an impeccable team around her. Lemonade and Dangerously in Love are two of the greatest pop/R&B albums of the last couple decades, but the extent to which she contributed to either is dubious.