Gagafy 296 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, kyanewest said: Muslims who wear these garments are extremists, the moderate muslims don't. They were a hijab. i would call it radicals. The radicals one have the tendencies to become extremists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimisaMonster 31,073 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Economy said: What if what JW preach about Governments turning on religion in the future is gonna come true 👀 #signs @TimisaMonster Even if we didn't preach it, God already foretold it would happen... that's why the scriptures say God will put it into their hearts to make the unanimous decision to turn on religion and they think they will be carrying out their will... All of the recent radical terrorism around the world affects the "peace and security" of all nations. It has already gotten to a point where countries have had enough and soon the UN will have to do something about it... Rev 17:17 Stream my new single, 💜"Heartbeat"💜, on Spotify! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeehawKylie 7,817 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 A burqa is a cultural garment. If it is requested through law that people do not wear it in public places, I do not see much issue. Upon traveling to other countries, you tend to abide by their cultural laws or norms. Women can't operate a motor vehicle in Saudi Arabia as licenses are no issued to them, for example. Had this been a Hijab ban, I would be totally against it. However, as the burqa is a cultural garment that obscures the face, I understand that a western country may rule against public use. Plenty of states, countries, et al have laws against obscuring ones face. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
River 127,333 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 58 minutes ago, GypsyBabe said: Whether or not that is what you intended, it what I derived from your comments regarding ski masks and helmets. You should have understood that would be the analysis when you typed it out. I agree with your last statement 100% Education is always key, which is why I believe that the sudden "banning" of an item of significance is inappropriate. I think that covering faces in a public setting should not be allowed, however, I think that it needs to be discussed further. Fear is a big problem in the west, and we need to be careful to not allow it to rule our lives and destabilize our values. I was just giving an example of the importance to ban face covering items and how the reasoning is correct for specific items and this time it was the ski mask.. The problem with Europe for ages was the lack of education to immigrants, it's not easy to live in a different country with a different culture, way of thinking, in a democracy.. they simply have no clue about it and the first thing that you want to do is to feel at home, so they start to live the same as in their home country.. Europe needs to provide a lot of tools to them to make the integrate in the society and how to make the balance between their culture and belief and the country and if needed to make compromises so everyone can live happily.. So sploosh your juice all over me you Riverboy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
River 127,333 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, IndieKylie said: A burqa is a cultural garment. If it is requested through law that people do not wear it in public places, I do not see much issue. Upon traveling to other countries, you tend to abide by their cultural laws or norms. Women can't operate a motor vehicle in Saudi Arabia as licenses are no issued to them, for example. Had this been a Hijab ban, I would be totally against it. However, as the burqa is a cultural garment that obscures the face, I understand that a western country may rule against public use. Plenty of states, countries, et al have laws against obscuring ones face. Correct! My same sex marriage is not legal in Costa Rica for example, my marriage is banned here. same as in every Muslim country and in my own country - Israel, yay! So sploosh your juice all over me you Riverboy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyBabe 22,836 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 27 minutes ago, kyanewest said: Muslims who wear these garments are extremists, the moderate muslims don't. They were a hijab. Is this always the case? I would imagine that they are not all extremists. ⚯͛ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteMyAccount 11,881 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Simon said: An example is Afghanistan. Before religion and islamist took over and after: Surely there are some examples of women wearing Burqas based off of their personal choice, right? Are hijabs are sign of oppression too? But I do agree that there are areas that violate women's rights and wrongly preach Islamic traditions. I'm just going off of my knowledge based on a ME class I took. Side note, I never really got why men aren't subjected to these traditions. Or I guess that's part of the oppression issue? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyBabe 22,836 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, River said: I was just giving an example of the importance to ban face covering items and how the reasoning is correct for specific items and this time it was the ski mask.. The problem with Europe for ages was the lack of education to immigrants, it's not easy to live in a different country with a different culture, way of thinking, in a democracy.. they simply have no clue about it and the first thing that you want to do is to feel at home, so they start to live the same as in their home country.. Europe needs to provide a lot of tools to them to make the integrate in the society and how to make the balance between their culture and belief and the country and if needed to make compromises so everyone can live happily.. I love this discussion that we are having! I think that my issue with this topic is more the reasons behind "why" this is being banned as opposed to whether or not this is a "necessity." Education is the key to progression. But the issue is how to assimilate cultures without manipulating and eradicating elements of that culture in such a way that is transgressive. This is extremely difficult to do. Also keep in mind that I am inherently biased in one way because although I have done much research on topics such as these, and travelled to many places around the world, I am still a girl from Boston who is not regularly exposed to the issue that we are discussing. ⚯͛ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagafy 296 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, ZacharyMark said: Surely there are some examples of women wearing Burqas based off of their personal choice, right? Are hijabs are sign of oppression too? But I do agree that there are areas that violate women's rights and wrongly preach Islamic traditions. I'm just going off of my knowledge based on a ME class I took. Side note, I never really got why men aren't subjected to these traditions. Or I guess that's part of the oppression issue? i wont call it oppression, it's by choice ... in a way. The muslim world right now are not like what it was before. The wahhabism ideology is spreading from the saudi arabia throughout the world. They impose strict religious education even for kids as young as 5, hence, you could see a 5 year old girl wearing a burqa these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qualle1 1,385 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I fully agree with this decision and hope, that a total ban will follow in Germany soon! MAKE LOVE NOT WAR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagafy 296 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 12 minutes ago, GypsyBabe said: I love this discussion that we are having! I think that my issue with this topic is more the reasons behind "why" this is being banned as opposed to whether or not this is a "necessity." Education is the key to progression. But the issue is how to assimilate cultures without manipulating and eradicating elements of that culture in such a way that is transgressive. This is extremely difficult to do. Also keep in mind that I am inherently biased in one way because although I have done much research on topics such as these, and travelled to many places around the world, I am still a girl from Boston who is not regularly exposed to the issue that we are discussing. As far as my understanding about Muslims is concerned, that's not possible. For the muslims, their religion (Islam) is a way of life; politic, education, life, the law (shariah). They believe that to be a true good muslim, one must follow the way of life as dictated. Forbidding them following in either one of the cultures that they have practiced would deemed as racism, discrimination; thus, the birth of the word Islamophobia. Unless there's a change ; moderate muslims played a big role here, they should educate the rest of the muslim to adopt to the ever changing world. But these moderate muslims are discriminated by their peers (due to their moderate approach), and hence ... they usually have their profile kept low. * I have a great deal with muslims and I'm an atheist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyBabe 22,836 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Just now, Gagafy said: As far as my understanding about Muslims is concerned, that's not possible. For the muslims, their religion (Islam) is a way of life; politic, education, life, the law (shariah). They believe that to be a true good muslim, one must follow the way of life as dictated. Forbidding them following in either one of the cultures that they have practiced would deemed as racism, discrimination. Unless there's a change ; moderate muslims played a big role here, they should educate the rest of the muslim to adopt to the ever changing world. But these moderate muslims are discriminated by their peers (due to their moderate approach), and hence ... they usually have their profile kept low. * I have a great deal with muslims and I'm an atheist. Thats why I am saying that it is a fundamental "issue" that needs to be explored in a way that is not discriminatory and prejudiced such a banning a cultural and religious symbol. Can this happen? Is it possible? Probably not in our lifetime. Moderate Muslims play a huge role, but then again, what is the most effective way to educate as you say? ⚯͛ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagafy 296 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Just now, GypsyBabe said: Thats why I am saying that it is a fundamental "issue" that needs to be explored in a way that is not discriminatory and prejudiced such a banning a cultural and religious symbol. Can this happen? Is it possible? Probably not in our lifetime. Moderate Muslims play a huge role, but then again, what is the most effective way to educate as you say? From where I'm seeing this, that wouldn't be in our life time. you could have a look at this video. It's only getting worst over time.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Enx4XxO1E the percentage of moderate muslims are few and far between. 20 muslims that I've known personally, one is open enough to tell me that he dislikes the radicalization of his muslims peers. For the rest of them, I'd have to be careful in wording my sentences when it comes to political discussion, especially during 2016 Presential election. They just hated Trump so much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adampervez 603 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 23 minutes ago, ZacharyMark said: Surely there are some examples of women wearing Burqas based off of their personal choice, right? Are hijabs are sign of oppression too? But I do agree that there are areas that violate women's rights and wrongly preach Islamic traditions. I'm just going off of my knowledge based on a ME class I took. Side note, I never really got why men aren't subjected to these traditions. Or I guess that's part of the oppression issue? While burqas are quite extreme for many people it is often the womans choice whether she wants tk wear it or not. Being a muslim myself im not exactly the biggrst fan of burqas but i beleive in freedom of what to wear, so i feel like this law is quite harsh. But it is important to remember that burqas are completely cultural and have almost nothing to do with islamic teaching. Hijabs are not oppresive at all, all women in my family who wear it, chose too and find it empowering as thry are all feminists. Furthermore, men actually are subjected to similar clothing rules. Traditional islamic teachings explain how men should not expose their chests and should cover up legs to their calves. But unfortunetaly, like every society, all cultures are a patriarchy and relaxed with men and more oppresive to women Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RepentingSinner 2,642 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I applaud my home country! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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