Is Lorde A Better Songwriter Than Gaga?

[freebit 6,240]

Just now, littlepotter said:

That means we can't compare any two people ever. While that would be a good thing, I don't see people doing that, so either we can accept all comparisons or none.

That's a myopic way of looking at things and not at all what I was saying?  It's like if you compared say, Can't Get You Out of My Head with Dreams by Fleetwood Mac. You can, but sometimes the comparison doesn't make sense because there's two different goals in mind here. It would make more sense for people to compare a song where Gaga is actively trying to be introspective with something from Melodrama, rather than the pop leaning songs from Joanne, but at the same time, most of Gaga's discog atm is pop leaning like that - that's her style (and it's also what makes an album like Joanne such a odd listen for many as its a pop album dressed in a singer/songwriters clothing). 

Conversely, you could judge Green Light by saying it sucks because the the chorus isn't infectious enough, and it's not a "bop" or whatever - but that's not Green Light's goal, and that would be ridiculous. Same here with someone trying to disect and find deep meaning a song like DiC. You can make the comparison, but it's going to seem like a lazy one. 

[littlepotter 75,076]

4 minutes ago, freebit said:

That's a myopic way of looking at things and not at all what I was saying?  It's like if you compared say, Can't Get You Out of My Head with Dreams by Fleetwood Mac. You can, but sometimes the comparison doesn't make sense because there's two different goals in mind here. It would make more sense for people to compare a song where Gaga is actively trying to be introspective with something from Melodrama, rather than the pop leaning songs from Joanne, but at the same time, most of Gaga's discog atm is pop leaning like that - that's her style (and it's also what makes an album like Joanne such a odd listen for many as its a pop album dressed in a singer/songwriters clothing). 

Conversely, you could judge Green Light by saying it sucks because the the chorus isn't infectious enough, and it's not a "bop" or whatever - but that's not Green Light's goal, and that would be ridiculous. Same here with someone trying to disect and find deep meaning a song like DiC. You can make the comparison, but it's going to seem like a lazy one. 

But Joanne is introspective. That kind of is how Gaga sold it to us. Who even brought up DiC? Gaga has other songs.

Compare Liability and Dope. Two introspective songs, where they both blame themselves, and the production is minimal. And while Dope's lyrics are poignant, Liability is just another level of songwriting. I have never listened to a song that had a plot twist in it. Like that blew me away, along with a lot of lyrics on Melodrama, while Gaga has rarely really caught me off guard with her songwriting. But she is still good.

[freebit 6,240]

26 minutes ago, littlepotter said:

But Joanne is introspective. That kind of is how Gaga sold it to us. Who even brought up DiC? Gaga has other songs.

Compare Liability and Dope. Two introspective songs, where they both blame themselves, and the production is minimal. And while Dope's lyrics are poignant, Liability is just another level of songwriting. I have never listened to a song that had a plot twist in it. Like that blew me away, along with a lot of lyrics on Melodrama, while Gaga has rarely really caught me off guard with her songwriting. But she is still good.

DiC came up in the other Lorde related thread, you can check yourself. And that would indeed be a better, non-lazy comparison. I disagree on Joanne. She kept reiterating and emphasizing during the promo trail that Joanne is a pop album. I think some of the criticism about the album is people being disappointed that she didn't fully commit to what the album looked like on the surface level (see Anthony Fantano's review). Joanne is a Lady Gaga pop album through and through, it's just wearing a different outfit than the others (which is why I think people here longing for "pop Gaga" after Joanne is somewhat baffling to me, but that's another discussion).

My view is that Gaga's style lies in memorable hooks and verses, with amped up production, like Madonna, Bonnie McKee, Peaches, Roisin Murphy (when she's doing dance music), and Debbie Harry, whereas Lorde's style is more in the tradition of singer-songwriters like Tori Amos, Fiona Apple, Stevie Nicks, and Natalie Merchant. Nothing wrong with comparing these ladies, but at the same time, there are actually different goals these women are going for with their music, and all uniquely slay at what they set out to do.

[littlepotter 75,076]

11 minutes ago, freebit said:

DiC came up in the other Lorde related thread, you can check yourself. And that would indeed be a better, non-lazy comparison. I disagree on Joanne. She kept reiterating and emphasizing during the promo trail that Joanne is a pop album. I think some of the criticism about the album is people being disappointed that she didn't fully commit to what the album looked like on the surface level (see Anthony Fantano's review). Joanne is a Lady Gaga pop album through and through, it's just wearing a different outfit than the others (which is why I think people here longing for "pop Gaga" after Joanne is somewhat baffling to me, but that's another discussion).

My view is that Gaga's style lies in memorable hooks and verses, with amped up production, like Madonna, Bonnie McKee, Peaches, Roisin Murphy (when she's doing dance music), and Debbie Harry, whereas Lorde's style is more in the tradition of singer-songwriters like Tori Amos, Fiona Apple, Stevie Nicks, and Natalie Merchant. Nothing wrong with comparing these ladies, but at the same time, there are actually different goals these women are going for with their music, and all uniquely slay at what they set out to do.

That is true, but I still think saying Lorde is a better somgwriter than Gaga isn't really uncomparable.

[freebit 6,240]

8 minutes ago, littlepotter said:

That is true, but I still think saying Lorde is a better somgwriter than Gaga isn't really uncomparable.

I still think both are very lyrically different for me to completely say one is better than the other. My opinion is that Gaga is too obvious and heavy handed at times, and Lorde's verses can be too clunky and tuneless. Gaga makes better pop music, and Lorde makes better introspective songs IMO. 

[IHE 563]

Writing maybe, melodies, gawd no. Her melodies are so lackluster. Also her voice makes my ears bleed.

[OLH 130]

1 hour ago, IHE said:

Writing maybe, melodies, gawd no. Her melodies are so lackluster. Also her voice makes my ears bleed.

This! I didn't like Melodrama because her voice isn't robust enough to be the only thing carrying a melody, and with sparse instrumentation that does her no favors just makes it a slog to listen to. 

[OLH 130]

Not everyone upholding Donatella and Boys Boys Boys as the best examples of Gaga's writing.  

You guys just want to throw Lorde a bone, because she's objectively a worse vocalist, dancer, performer and her album isn't as successful as Gaga's. Gaga could probably easily write in Lorde's style and be able to pull it off vocally, could Lorde write in Gaga's style and execute it well? That is the question. 

[nswain1110 3,075]

Lorde's lyrics are smarter and more intriguing to me than Gaga's, but Gaga has better/catchier melodies - I love both of their musical styles for what each brings to the table. 

[OLH 130]

On 6/19/2017 at 5:00 PM, John Wayne said:

I've been listening to Melodrama on repeat for the past few days and I'm amazed by Lorde's writing skills. The metaphors she uses are so uniqe and brilliant. Honestly I think that she is a much better songwriter than Gaga.

 

Discuss hunties 

 

On 6/19/2017 at 5:08 PM, sipthistea said:

Now people will start attacking Gaga's songwriting 

I swear I must've logged into LordeDaily.  

[OLH 130]

On 6/20/2017 at 10:24 AM, chakigun said:

Gaga's best lyrics were from her earlier work like:
"I want your psycho, your vertigo schtick"
"I can't believe how you looked at me with your James Dean glossy eyes; In your tight jeans with your long hair and your cigarette stained lies"
"Raise a glass to mend all the broken hearts of all our wrecked up friends"
"Half psychotic, sick hypnotic, got my blueprint it's symphonic"
"Don't wanna kiss, don't wanna touch just want my cigarette and hush"
"I want your whiskey mouth all over my blonde south"  
"Put on your shades 'cause I'll be dancing in the flames tonight
And the entire record Teeth
I'd describe her as more avant-garde and pop at the same time, edgy, unique, and at times dirty.

Lorde has lines like:
"Baby be the class clown, I'll be the beauty queen in tears"
"I'm kind of over gettin' told to throw my hands up in the air, so there"
"And everyone's competing for a love they won't receive"
"We're never done with killing time. Can I kill it with you?"
"But I got my fingers laced together and I made a little prison
And I’m locking up everyone who ever laid a finger on me"
"In the morning, you'll be dancing with all the heartache
And the treason, the fantasies of leaving"
"I am my mother's child, I'll love you 'til my breathing stops; I'll love you 'til you call the cops on me; But in the darkest hours I stumbled on a secret power, I'll find a way to be without you babe"
And the entire songs Liability and Royals.
Lorde is a whole other level of genius. Her work is dearly poetic, ethereal, heart-wrenching, and full of depth.  

Both are amazing artists. Lorde's caliber for her age and her contemporaries is astounding. Her lyrics are hypnotic and mesmerizing and will catch you off-guard. Gaga's songwriting is iconic and avant garde, sometimes relatable, but very empowering, entertaining, either energizing or heart-breaking, and that's why people buy her. 

The two belong to different spectra of pop music which have different songwriting styles needed. Gaga needs to prove nothing at this point to prove how good she is in songwriting. Lorde however is taking us by surprise every time she gets better and better with her craft.  

(btw, my favorite songwriter has gotta be Jess Glynne!)

 

[Pharamon 6,839]

22 hours ago, Craig Barnes said:

And I agreed with Dominic so instead of me saying the same things, I just quoted both of you lol

 

 

Ps. Your avi is pretty cute tbh💁

Thanks and so is yours  

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

17 minutes ago, Skrill said:

Thanks and so is yours  

No worries!

And awwwh thank you

[Pharamon 6,839]

44 minutes ago, Craig Barnes said:

No worries!

And awwwh thank you

You're welcome  

[PeachJug 3,070]

What do you mean by songwriter?

Lorde has very story-like lyrics so I would call her a great lyricist

Gaga really REALLY writes the songs... like, she hears the production in her head as well as the lyrics

Gaga is a more successful songwriter... does that mean she is better? I don't know. Do we look just at lyrics or at the songs as wholes (both Lorde and Gaga are heavily involved not only in writing but in producing)

imo Gaga

Edit:

Gaga reminds me of a David Bowie type lyricist

Lorde reminds me more of a Ed Sheeran type lyricist (but in a good way ofc)