The Gaga/Gaga fan disconnect

[giskardsb 12,565]

So many doomsday threads on here, or threads discussing what Gaga "needs to do" in order to have a pop hit and resurrect her career, etc.  People saying her career is done if she "flops" again, needs to do features with "relevant' artists, get back with RedOne, afraid that the Super Bowl won't be a big enough pop spectacle, claiming her "best days as a performer are behind her", that she needs to target the teens and pre-teens to be successful, and constantly wanting her to get back into the pop box in order to "save" her career which apparently is doomed otherwise.

I get the rationale... Gaga fans fell in love with a flashy pop star, pop fans, especially stans, love all the stuff that makes pop big and flashy, they basically only see music and entertainment through the pop bubble; everything lives inside that bubble and is either a flop or failure, there are apparently no other alternatives.   And actually pop fans are limiting themselves even in pop... if it's not the current type of pop targeted toward the youth market, then it's not considered pop either.  In the pop stan world, adults don't listen to "popular" music.

The disconnect is that Gaga sees other alternatives, a bigger world.  Pop is not the "end all-be all" for her, even though for pop fans it is.  Pop is not the only bubble, it's a bubble in a river of music and entertainment possibilities.  Joanne is pop oriented, but it is more adult oriented pop, not targeted at the teen and tween market.   Gaga doesn't just want to be a star for teenagers... she wants to be a star for everybody.   And I think that is the biggest disconnect right now..... many Gaga fans think she should only be targeting her original demographic because for them there is no other "relevant" demographic that exists.  To pop fans nobody else matters but them, and pop music is the single greatest thing someone can do, and therefore they don't understand how someone like Gaga can willingly step outside the bounds of pop and explore the rest of the entertainment world.

But when you watch Gaga's reactions to how she is received at C2C shows, or the recent TB90 performances, and the standing ovations, the Sound of Music; etc, you can see that she truly appreciates when people just love her for her fantastic, unique, and wonderful voice.   And there are many many many people outside the pop sphere that are perfectly willing to appreciate her on that level.

Gaga's career is not close to over, in fact I think she's just really getting started.  Maybe she will "flop" in terms of music that teenagers care about.  Madonnas latest albums have been horrible strictly because she was trying too hard to be "relevant" with the youth... I don't think Gaga will do that.   I believe Gaga is more interested in spreading her entertainment demographic to include all ages, across genres, and cross media including stage and screen.  She has always been more Streisand and Liza than Madonna.

If she does a rock oriented SB performance ala Prince, or even if she did the pop fan worst nightmare and did a SB show of all Jazz and Vocal arrangements, the "GP" that isn't pop stans will go nuts for it.  Because she IS a fantastic entertainer and vocalists, and doesn't need a bunch of dancing sharks or bringing currently "relevant" "artists" like LMFAO ( where are they now?) on with her in order to try to make a show entertaining.  I don't think pop fans realize that to 80% of the SB audience that stuff just looks overdone and stupid and aimed at kids.  

So Gaga wants to be popular, sure, but on a broader scale than just living inside the pop bubble.  Meanwhile pop fans only see inside the bubble.  And Gaga will either be a "flop" or "queen" depending on her status in that bubble.  But plenty of creative people, and many of the best musicians and vocalists, live outside that bubble and do just fine.   

So thats the disconnect IMO.... Gaga sees a wide open world of music and entertainment possibility, but many Gaga fans only see the small part of that world she inhabited at the very first.  I don't know if she will ever return to what she did before, or find a mix that works for her.  I do however think that she will no longer allow her own talents to be overshadowed by props, stages, costumes, and other factors.  Pop fans like to pretend that "the GP" wasn't able to see past that stuff, but all you have to do is look at the recent thread about "Was Gaga made by her Team" to understand that even Gaga fans ignore the hard work, musical and vocal capability, and charisma, that makes Gaga the star she is, not all the "stuff" produced by her Teams.  And you wonder why Gaga, at least for this era, has downplayed all that stuff.  Even her fans don't take her seriously without it.

[Robagaga 9,345]

Great thesis, thanks for this, everyone should read it

[Miel 15,009]

Interesting points.

Sometimes I feel like (because I started stanning her at peak TFM when I was 13) I'm caught in between the middle of wanting back what made her thus huge spectacle versus wanting her to continuously evolve not just in her work, but in how she presents her work. It shows in my being disappointed in recent videos, performance aesthetics, and lack thereof, while still being innately blown away by Joanne, the album, itself.

While I do wish her all the success in the world, you make a really good point in that success isn't necessarily one linear thing. There are so many other sources and demographics she could tap into that won't compromise whatever artistic vision she has in that moment.

[Bling 31,022]

THIS! IS! EVERYTHING!!! ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[yASSsss 35,510]

thread of the day 

Also,can we pin this thread in the 'Gaga Thoughts' section.everyone needs to read it  

[cryingrainbow 1,136]

See, she is a commercial artist, at the end of the day. I am not saying what other people say regarding targeting the youth and stuff. But, she needs a hit, some song that can independently stand on its own. In today's age, when a song can go to 100 million views in a week or so, she is lagging way behind. If she is trying to reach other people and trying other genres, she isn't great at doing it because she is still in the pop bubble herself. Nobody even remembers her anymore. I can bet you a million dollars that if she was flashy, extravagant, flamboyant, theatrical she'd be heard more than she is being right now. Imagine if Born this way theatrics were like Joanne, oh honey, it would have never been noticed like it was. 

[DeanWinchester 41,390]

I feel like I have to post my reply on a new thread at this point 

[cryingrainbow 1,136]

Didn't you get slayed when the wings came out at the end of the VSFS performance? We just want more slayage like that and less of "i am my father's daughter" and pointless radio interviews!!  

[nullandvoid 189]

9 minutes ago, giskardsb said:

So many doomsday threads on here, or threads discussing what Gaga "needs to do" in order to have a pop hit and resurrect her career, etc.  People saying her career is done if she "flops" again, needs to do features with "relevant' artists, get back with RedOne, afraid that the Super Bowl won't be a big enough pop spectacle, claiming her "best days as a performer are behind her", that she needs to target the teens and pre-teens to be successful, and constantly wanting her to get back into the pop box in order to "save" her career which apparently is doomed otherwise.

I get the rationale... Gaga fans fell in love with a flashy pop star, pop fans, especially stans, love all the stuff that makes pop big and flashy, they basically only see music and entertainment through the pop bubble; everything lives inside that bubble and is either a flop or failure, there are apparently no other alternatives.   And actually pop fans are limiting themselves even in pop... if it's not the current type of pop targeted toward the youth market, then it's not considered pop either.  In the pop stan world, adults don't listen to "popular" music.

The disconnect is that Gaga sees other alternatives, a bigger world.  Pop is not the "end all-be all" for her, even though for pop fans it is.  Pop is not the only bubble, it's a bubble in a river of music and entertainment possibilities.  Joanne is pop oriented, but it is more adult oriented pop, not targeted at the teen and tween market.   Gaga doesn't just want to be a star for teenagers... she wants to be a star for everybody.   And I think that is the biggest disconnect right now..... many Gaga fans think she should only be targeting her original demographic because for them there is no other "relevant" demographic that exists.  To pop fans nobody else matters but them, and pop music is the single greatest thing someone can do, and therefore they don't understand how someone like Gaga can willingly step outside the bounds of pop and explore the rest of the entertainment world.

But when you watch Gaga's reactions to how she is received at C2C shows, or the recent TB90 performances, and the standing ovations, the Sound of Music; etc, you can see that she truly appreciates when people just love her for her fantastic, unique, and wonderful voice.   And there are many many many people outside the pop sphere that are perfectly willing to appreciate her on that level.

Gaga's career is not close to over, in fact I think she's just really getting started.  Maybe she will "flop" in terms of music that teenagers care about.  Madonnas latest albums have been horrible strictly because she was trying too hard to be "relevant" with the youth... I don't think Gaga will do that.   I believe Gaga is more interested in spreading her entertainment demographic to include all ages, across genres, and cross media including stage and screen.  She has always been more Streisand and Liza than Madonna.

If she does a rock oriented SB performance ala Prince, or even if she did the pop fan worst nightmare and did a SB show of all Jazz and Vocal arrangements, the "GP" that isn't pop stans will go nuts for it.  Because she IS a fantastic entertainer and vocalists, and doesn't need a bunch of dancing sharks or bringing currently "relevant" "artists" like LMFAO ( where are they now?) on with her in order to try to make a show entertaining.  I don't think pop fans realize that to 80% of the SB audience that stuff just looks overdone and stupid and aimed at kids.  

So Gaga wants to be popular, sure, but on a broader scale than just living inside the pop bubble.  Meanwhile pop fans only see inside the bubble.  And Gaga will either be a "flop" or "queen" depending on her status in that bubble.  But plenty of creative people, and many of the best musicians and vocalists, live outside that bubble and do just fine.   

So thats the disconnect IMO.... Gaga sees a wide open world of music and entertainment possibility, but many Gaga fans only see the small part of that world she inhabited at the very first.  I don't know if she will ever return to what she did before, or find a mix that works for her.  I do however think that she will no longer allow her own talents to be overshadowed by props, stages, costumes, and other factors.  Pop fans like to pretend that "the GP" wasn't able to see past that stuff, but all you have to do is look at the recent thread about "Was Gaga made by her Team" to understand that even Gaga fans ignore the hard work, musical and vocal capability, and charisma, that makes Gaga the star she is, not all the "stuff" produced by her Teams.  And you wonder why Gaga, at least for this era, has downplayed all that stuff.  Even her fans don't take her seriously without it.

And I think the pop scene has completely changed dynamically since, say, 2010; the mysterious (and new, filling the imagination with fantastical sounds) spooky space creature from Major Tom's tin can has now gone through eras and evolutions and you see more of her scope and directions, and time has passed many bands have risen and fallen and trends and sounds have flashed in and back out of existence... there is a vapid air now, where you have to prove you are worth someone's focus or attention. Like do we really want her selling out to stay popular? This is a pinnacle time in the two generational divides of music.

[DeanWinchester 41,390]

3 minutes ago, cryingrainbow said:

Didn't you get slayed when the wings came out at the end of the VSFS performance?

perched for the response to this though

[Joshie S 5,803]

I completely agree with this. I also believe that fans need to stop worrying about the future, stop worrying about all the nitpicky things and focus on RIGHT NOW. Gaga won't be here forever, one day she will quite happily live a private life, so we need to enjoy her while we have her.

[brizoda 3,315]

 Bravo to this

[Bio 23,538]

10 minutes ago, cryingrainbow said:

Didn't you get slayed when the wings came out at the end of the VSFS performance? We just want more slayage like that and less of "i am my father's daughter" and pointless radio interviews!!  

It was cool but I got even more slayed when she performed Million Reasons. Absolutely beautiful.

[cryingrainbow 1,136]

Just now, Bio said:

It was cool but I got even more slayed when she performed Million Reasons. Absolutely beautiful.

It was beautiful, yes but not iconic and something unexpected. Please don't even try to kid about it. 

[Bio 23,538]

10 minutes ago, cryingrainbow said:

It was beautiful, yes but not iconic and something unexpected. Please don't even try to kid about it. 

I just don't think shock factor is what makes a good performance. When I look back at her past performances, the ones I remember the most are the ones she sings her heart out and shares her soul with the world. Marry The Night on Alan Carr, You've Got A Friend In Me, I Wish, Bang Bang Bang, Do What U Want on Alan Carr, ARTPOP on Jimmy Fallon. There was a time Gaga wanted to shock so much that eventually nothing was shocking anymore.