Economy 53,076 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 https://www.google.ca/amp/foreignpolicy.com/2016/12/15/the-us-economy-needs-more-productivity-not-jobs-trump-economics-general-electric-worker-output/amp/ Usually tax cuts help economy because it leaves more money for people and business to spend and creates more demand Heres the issue, the economy is at near full employment. The quality and pay of jobs and hours may not be the best but the point is its near full capacity At full capacity there isnt much labor left for companies to hire more workers if they get more demand, so its hard for them to expand production right now. That means if consumers get tax cuts and they have more money to spend, companies are likely to simply raise prices and the US will simply get inflation Atm what the US needs for economic growth is productivity gains where production per worker increases. Technological breakthrus tend to drive this Productivity gains havent been major since the late 90s/early 2000s information revolution where computers and internet speed up the process of everything and freed up labor by people who used to be book keepers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarryTheKnight 2,181 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Also, the long term effects of trickle down economics have proven to be detrimental and mainly benefit people who are already rich I will take the extra income tho, being able to keep more money may be the only good thing about Trump if you ignore the chance that we may all be put into concentration camps or die in an impeding nuclear war Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic 49,376 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Obviously they won't. Especially when the tax cuts are only granted to the rich. The rich don't spend, the rich stay rich by hoarding their money and being frugal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,076 Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 Just now, MarryTheKnight said: Also, the long term effects of trickle down economics have proven to be detrimental and mainly benefit people who are already rich I will take the extra income tho, being able to keep more money may be the only good thing about Trump if you ignore the chance that we may all be put into concentration camps or die in an impeding nuclear war This is refering to any tax cuts including to the people. This isnt about trickle down economics. Of course this is on average. Low income people would probably take tax cuts even if it meant inflation while middle class wouldnt benefit. And trickle down is wishy washy. Its not so much about the money from the top ever coming down i think its pretty obvious by now it doesnt work. Its more about not letting businesses leave to other countries or not discouraging investment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,076 Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, Supersonic said: Obviously they won't. Especially when the tax cuts are only granted to the rich. The rich don't spend, the rich stay rich by hoarding their money and being frugal. Ur the second person to say this the OP is tax cuts in general. Its not distinguishing between poor or rich tax cuts nor was the article about Trumps plans specifically Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maleficent 6 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 4 minutes ago, Supersonic said: Obviously they won't. Especially when the tax cuts are only granted to the rich. The rich don't spend, the rich stay rich by hoarding their money and being frugal. Perhaps, if America wasn't the home of so much vulgar New Money... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarryTheKnight 2,181 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Just now, Maleficent said: Perhaps, if America wasn't the home of so much vulgar New Money... tbh this is a sentiment that has existed since the rise of the bourgeoisie and industrialization. Like there are countless 19th century novels and social critiques that say the same thing about the rising bourgeoisie and believing the traditional aristocracy are more respectable. Even Marx shows notions of this in the Communist Manifesto. I think it's kind of a stupid argument though. People accumulating wealth is a fundamental part of the rise of liberal capitalism. Where problems arise is that a growing percentage of people are unable to accumulate any wealth, and the capitalists just continue getting wealthier, thus creating an oligarchy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maleficent 6 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Just now, MarryTheKnight said: tbh this is a sentiment that has existed since the rise of the bourgeoisie and industrialization. Like there are countless 19th century novels and social critiques that say the same thing about the rising bourgeoisie and believing the traditional aristocracy are more respectable. Even Marx shows notions of this in the Communist Manifesto. I think it's kind of a stupid argument though. People accumulating wealth is a fundamental part of the rise of liberal capitalism. Where problems arise is that a growing percentage of people are unable to accumulate any wealth, and the capitalists just continue getting wealthier, thus creating an oligarchy. I absolutely agree: new money is vital for a healthy economy. But they're terrible for society. Not only are they far too flashy, half their things are leased/mortgaged/loaned, just so they could get something a little bigger (unnecessarily). Old Money will always be the smarter, kinder, and more sensible of the upper class, and the great thing about them is that you can't even tell they have a vast arsenal of wealth. However, the American Dream is a paradox, the harder one works towards achieving it, the less likely they are to become rich and successful. We cannot have a nation where "becoming rich" is the only drive for hard work, for that nation will fail itself and its people. Arthur Miller and F. Scott Fitzgerald have both warned us against this... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarryTheKnight 2,181 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 10 minutes ago, Maleficent said: I absolutely agree: new money is vital for a healthy economy. But they're terrible for society. Not only are they far too flashy, half their things are leased/mortgaged/loaned, just so they could get something a little bigger (unnecessarily). Old Money will always be the smarter, kinder, and more sensible of the upper class, and the great thing about them is that you can't even tell they have a vast arsenal of wealth. However, the American Dream is a paradox, the harder one works towards achieving it, the less likely they are to become rich and successful. We cannot have a nation where "becoming rich" is the only drive for hard work, for that nation will fail itself and its people. Arthur Miller and F. Scott Fitzgerald have both warned us against this... This is all very true. And yeah, the concept of 'working hard' will make you rich is totally ridiculous and also creates a stigma that lower class people are just lazy/didn't work hard enough. The American dream came during the Progressive Era which is one of the most corrupt and socially inept periods of American history (however with Trump, he may beat it). But America is a beacon of hope for immigrants. Like my grandparents were Holocaust victims and came to America after WWII. They couldn't speak English and didn't have any formal education. But my dad is a surgeon and my mom is a lawyer, so I have some personal feelings towards the American dream. Also, I realize not all immigrants are as fortunate and there are other socio-political detrimental problems in America associated with race. But that's one of the reasons why the result of the US elections hurt me so badly, because I come from immigrants who wanted to make a new, better life and the American people voted for Trump basically as a 'f*ck you' to immigrants. But now we live in Canada and I prefer Canada lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc 4,776 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Doesn't matter, though - Trump will do his very best to make sure that tax cuts will not cause more consumption in society because they will be tax cuts for the richest 1% who save everything rather than buying Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,076 Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 2 hours ago, MarryTheKnight said: This is all very true. And yeah, the concept of 'working hard' will make you rich is totally ridiculous and also creates a stigma that lower class people are just lazy/didn't work hard enough. The American dream came during the Progressive Era which is one of the most corrupt and socially inept periods of American history (however with Trump, he may beat it). But America is a beacon of hope for immigrants. Like my grandparents were Holocaust victims and came to America after WWII. They couldn't speak English and didn't have any formal education. But my dad is a surgeon and my mom is a lawyer, so I have some personal feelings towards the American dream. Also, I realize not all immigrants are as fortunate and there are other socio-political detrimental problems in America associated with race. But that's one of the reasons why the result of the US elections hurt me so badly, because I come from immigrants who wanted to make a new, better life. But now we live in Canada and I prefer Canada lol I hate that mentality too getting rich isnt just working hard its also getting lucky sometimes u start a business or an idea that just really takes off and you succeed But many ppl who try to get rich end up in ruin. Theres risk involved. 1/3 of new US businesses fail within first 2 years. And it doesnt mean u were a bad business guy, sometimes it just doesnt click, its hard to predict how it will do many ppl are afraid of taking risk (I dont blame them). And stay struggling working class for life doesnt mean they are lazy. I myself am middle class and would love to try and make it big but im afraid of putting all the money i saved on the line and have it potentially fail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,076 Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 4 minutes ago, Luc said: Doesn't matter, though - Trump will do his very best to make sure that tax cuts will not cause more consumption in society because they will be tax cuts for the richest 1% who save everything rather than buying Tbh. And raise the deficit while hes at it. Moron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolfsmck 2,763 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Left wing will oppose, diminish, insult everything the right proposes, and visa versa. Come up with a system or idea that the majority will support and benefit should be the goal... @Economy. .. Logistics (transport & warehousing) are near max too. To me, streamlining and leveling the tax code would.go a long way improve life for everyone. like a cat in a sil, I observe life, moving and still. My words give a clue,look inside to see whats true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc 4,776 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 50 minutes ago, Woolfsmck said: Left wing will oppose, diminish, insult everything the right proposes, and visa versa. Come up with a system or idea that the majority will support and benefit should be the goal... @Economy. .. Logistics (transport & warehousing) are near max too. To me, streamlining and leveling the tax code would.go a long way improve life for everyone. The majority of the people doesn't mean much when the majority probably think austerity during recession, lower taxes for the rich, rising house prices and less globalisation are good things. In all honesty the future looks very bleak as long as politicians keep telling the people that public debt, abuse of social security and high tax burden for the rich are the economy's biggest problems so they can push their policies intended to please their donors. For once Democrats were really heading the right way with Obama's stimulus measures and HRC's plans but it seems the people are too brainwashed (and still being brainwashed) to see conservative and populist economy is an economy where a handful of people profit while the rest loses. Whether that handful is a car company paid for by the govt to move less jobs to Mexico or the top 0.001% who are either part of the Trump administration themselves or the lucky ones who will profiy when all is said and done.. mess the US doesn't look like it has a bright future. At least the Democrats used to be realistic about the economy and telling truths, but now they will probably have to change strategy to a more popular programme to convince the people not to vote against their own interests Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,076 Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 7 minutes ago, Luc said: The majority of the people doesn't mean much when the majority probably think austerity during recession, lower taxes for the rich, rising house prices and less globalisation are good things. In all honesty the future looks very bleak as long as politicians keep telling the people that public debt, abuse of social security and high tax burden for the rich are the economy's biggest problems so they can push their policies intended to please their donors. For once Democrats were really heading the right way with Obama's stimulus measures and HRC's plans but it seems the people are too brainwashed (and still being brainwashed) to see conservative and populist economy is an economy where a handful of people profit while the rest loses. Whether that handful is a car company paid for by the govt to move less jobs to Mexico or the top 0.001% who are either part of the Trump administration themselves or the lucky ones who will profiy when all is said and done.. mess the US doesn't look like it has a bright future. At least the Democrats used to be realistic about the economy and telling truths, but now they will probably have to change strategy to a more popular programme to convince the people not to vote against their own interests Everything in balance Democrats or more left wing parties wont works if the Government is competent and makes regulations that work, and spends tax money well Socialism can be better than Capitalism at its best but its also easier to screw up if not done properly. Lots of resources can go to waste with failed socialism and you end up with failed states So im a moderate... As far as which works better Socialism or Capitalism, I dont think the answer is as black and white as that. It also depends on how well the Government executes their strategy as well as a multitude of different factors Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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