Madonna: MJ is gone, but I'm still standing

[doppelganger 3,901]

Amazing speech Madge! 

Interesting that she said society doesn't want women to age and yet she's often dressed like a 19 year rocker wannabe. 

[StrawberryBlond 14,451]

Most of her speech is sound but there are some elements of it that are a bit...off. And bear in mind that I say all this as a feminist myself.

For starters, she made a certain point all about her. She said that you can be sexual in a way that men like but don't dare try to present your sexual ideas to the world. Yes, Madonna, keep banging on about how groundbreaking your Erotica era was. People weren't against you because you put your fantasies out there, necessarily, but rather, the crude way you did it. You were a singer, but in your Sex book, you became a p0rn star and you indulged in photography that was very shocking and objectifying, both to men and women. A man would have been equally as vilified if he had put out such a book, particularly in regards to that story it contained about having sex with someone implied to be underage. Yes, in 1992, it was a more conservative time but it wasn't the 50's. Women were allowed to be sexual and have sex outside of marriage and be outspoken, there was no widespread hatred or disagreement of that. I think putting your sexuality out there is fine as long as you're being classy about it because society must operate under a certain level of decency. You're not just allowed to do anything you want, you have to respect other people's levels of what they're comfortable with as well. And by the way, women sharing their sexual fantasies is considered hot as f**k by men. I have never encountered a man who was turned off by that, unless he was strictly religious. Madonna was considered the hottest thing around in 1992 by everyone, even those who said they disagreed with her because in Western society at least, we love displays of sexuality, overtly or secretly. She was villified, yes, but you can't deny that she had a lot of people who approved because she was being sexual. Don't exaggerate problems to fit your personal agenda.

Secondly, she says that women have to present themselves in a way that makes other women feel comfortable around other men...and that's somehow a bad thing in her mind. So, she doesn't value other women's opinions and feelings, then? Like I said above, there are rules in this society and you can't just do things because you like them, other people matter too and you don't have a right to make them feel uncomfortable. While I've never had to deal with this from personal experience, I cannot stand women who think it's ok to parade themselves sexually in front of men who they know are spoken for and even flirt with them and make their wives and girlfriend feel very offended and worried that their men will cheat. And even if they don't, they feel disrespected that another woman could act like that when she knows the marital status of the man. Women who do this are not feminists. These are the same women who disapprove of it only when other women do it to their man. Feminists support other women and would never behave inappropriately around men who they know are taken.

Overall, she goes on and on about supporting women but doesn't seem to realise that she's being a bit hypocritical herself. I talked about this on the thread over in the conversation area. Madonna rarely collabs with women (I believe Britney was the first one she ever did) and only collabs with women when they can give her relevancy. When she appears in movies as the lead, she is always the sole leading female and is at the centre of her own story. We've seen how mean she was to Gaga when she was trying to find her feet. She was mean to Sinead O'Connor back in 1992 when some of the attention was off her for a moment (Sinead actually responded saying that Madonna's actions betrayed her claims of feminism because she only approved of women when they were sexual like her). Madonna only seems to support feminism when there's something in it for her, when it personally affects her and doesn't seem to realise that she actually goes against a lot of feminist thought.

And finally, that bit about comparing herself to other legends was so unnecessary. The name checking didn't need to be done. I know what she was trying to say but she did it all wrong and made it sound like it was these artists fault for dying. Of course she's still here because she's alive! When most people say 'I'm still here' in the music industry, it's a reference to how they're still making successful music while others have fallen into obscurity since, but not to dead people. It's one thing to compare your longevity to people who are no longer successful, but people who are dead? What? By that logic, every civilian is on Madonna's level because they're alive and all these other legends are not. See, it doesn't really hold up under scrutiny, does it?

17 hours ago, Thomas P said:

This is what feminism is. 

Every other female singer on earth take notes.

Notice the irony of you saying that as a man? Sure, men can be feminists, but maybe it would help to look at her speech a bit closer and look at some of the things I've said above to get another feminist's take on it. And the woman in your avatar could sure benefit from a feminism class as well.

[Anastasia 6,093]

18 hours ago, Thomas P said:

This is what feminism is. 

Every other female singer on earth take notes.

I don't think you meant it that way but this sounds pretty condescending towards women. It takes balls to say what Madonna did, but she has already had a long successful career, its harder for the younger girls to speak out while trying to please their labels. Besides, feminism is for everyone, the men in pop culture should be speaking out as well, and the legendary ones who have been around for decades especially. 

[Hades 27,980]

Αll those pressed people in here. I regret everytime i enter a Madonna thread. They are so irritating and mean.

[monsterdino 31,991]

2 hours ago, Omar Vela said:

So admins are letting @Americano25 say tons of sh*t towards Gaga and Michael but you complaint when someone says something against Madonna? wow, just wow

There's a report option for a reason

[insight 2,428]

8 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

.. but in your Sex book, you became a p0rn star and you indulged in photography that was very shocking and objectifying, both to men and women.  

 You're not just allowed to do anything you want, you have to respect other people's levels of what they're comfortable with as well. 

1. **** star? Really, did you see in there any vaginal/ **** penetration, semen facial, fisting shots ?

2. People who were offended, bought the book, well knowing that it containes adult material and then they complain about it. If you're sensible to nudity, don't buy products that contain such material. Nobody forced them to.

[StrawberryBlond 14,451]

5 minutes ago, insight said:

1. **** star? Really, did you see in there any vaginal/ **** penetration, semen facial, fisting shots ?

2. People who were offended, bought the book, well knowing that it containes adult material and then they complain about it. If you're sensible to nudity, don't buy products that contain such material. Nobody forced them to.

A lot of people aren't aware of what the term p0rn actually means. I admit, I didn't realise the full definition of it until a few years ago. P0rn is not just having filmed sex with other people, it also involves nude photography and all round nudity, even if it's solo. A p0rnographic image or video is anything that involves the display of breasts and/or genitals in a way that is meant to be sexually arousing. It is different from erotica because in erotica, there is no nudity or sex and it's all about sexual suggestion. Madonna displayed full nudity in her book (both her and others) in a way that is supposed to be sexual and arousing and also included photos of her engaging in naked simulated sex acts (though some were real). That is p0rn. Not the most extreme kind, of course, but p0rn nonetheless. It doesn't put you on the same level as someone who does this full time for a living but it's still engaging in p0rnography.

True, it was your decision to buy the book or not but the very fact that she did this in the first place made a lot of her fans feel very uncomfortable and offended those who felt that she was using sexual objectification. Putting an idea out there is all very well but it's not good to go too far and make people feel uncomfortable. Why did she have to do full on nudity? Wouldn't some erotica images have been better? I mean, her album was called Erotica!

[NONONONO 709]

1 hour ago, ZombieMirror said:

Do you know on what site you are GAGA DAILY  not MADONNANATION go there and adore her I don't care but not when you are on GAGA as Lady Gaga as the  woman that doesn't wanna the name "Madonna" ever again cause she saw how nasty she was 

You are absolutely correct. This is Gaga Daily. So just explain me one thing: why are you constantly writing about Madonna on Gaga Daily. 

You know what's the answer - you are obsessed. Bye.

[insight 2,428]

11 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

 Madonna displayed full nudity in her book (both her and others) in a way that is supposed to be sexual and arousing and also included photos of her engaging in naked simulated sex acts (though some were real). 

Putting an idea out there is all very well but it's not good to go too far and make people feel uncomfortable. Why did she have to do full on nudity? Wouldn't some erotica images have been better? I mean, her album was called Erotica!

1. I wouldn't go that far and claim that the SEX photo sessions were depicting genuine sexual intercourse.

2. It were her sexual fantasies and her choice to depict them how she considered best. You can't really condone someone's sexual fantasies since they're subjective and personal. Psyche 101. Speaking about Erotica, the album is a completely different pair of shoes. Pictures can convey powerful messages/ feelings that songs can't and the other way around; for that purpose the whole SEX imagery was a far more a visual-suited project than an aural one. Although Erotica has tracks that leave lots of room for the mind to play.  The idea of people feeling uncomfortable? What made people feel uncomfortable was that a famous woman shoved in their faces her sexual fantasies and she didn't feel apologetic about it. The imagery depicted in SEX wasn't nothing groundbreaking or shocking; had it not been Madonna photographed in the book, it would've slipped under the radar.

[BurqaSwg 4,681]

queen of having legs 

[Psychedelic 1,098]

1 hour ago, Omar Vela said:

Not just mine, there's a lot of proof. Let's not be delusional

For such a proof-sustained little artiscally-valued, heartless person you make her out to be, so consistently and so passionately in each thread. Your concerns and interests on her, are rather worrying for your own persona than anyone else involved in such disscussions!

[Psychedelic 1,098]

The reply above aplies to all of those who are always in that pattern... you know who you are!

[ryanripley 86,575]

[ZombieMirror 299]

2 hours ago, LG said:

Actually Gaga's spoke of her heaps and has even taken pics with her to show she's over it... the only people hanging onto the FIVE YEAR OLD tiny ass dispute are pop stans  people in the real world dont hold onto things for that long

"Madonna and I are very different. Just saying. We're very different. I wouldn't make that comparison at all and I don't mean to disrespect Madonna she's a nice lady and she's had a fantastic huge career, biggest pop start of all time. But I play a lot of instruments. I write all my own music. I spend hours and hours a day in the studio. I'm a producer. I'm a writer. What I do is different."

Yes yes she spoke such nice things 

"I'm not just rehearsing over and over again to put on a show there is a spontaneity in my work. I allow myself to fail. I allow myself to break. I'm not afraid of my flaws."

you can twist her words as much as you like but it's obvios that Madge is not her cup of tea 

[ZombieMirror 299]

1 hour ago, headonfire said:

You are absolutely correct. This is Gaga Daily. So just explain me one thing: why are you constantly writing about Madonna on Gaga Daily. 

You know what's the answer - you are obsessed. Bye.

I think you can't understand too well the meanining of this fan-base site