Do You Think Gaga Low Key Dragged Madonna ?

[GeorgeDK 33]

3 minutes ago, MLVC said:

And sadly, because we live in such a sexist society, people would rather credit her male co-producers than her for her accomplishments. 

Well at least a lot of us know that Madonna has a huge impact on her songs... some might think she is only co-writer by name..but then they really have no clue about how things really work... without Madonna those songs could not have been written.

 

[MLVC 7]

1 minute ago, GeorgeDK said:

Well at least a lot of us know that Madonna has a huge impact on her songs... some might think she is only co-writer by name..but then they really have no clue about how things really work... without Madonna those songs could not have been written.

 

And if you follow her career its easy to tell how heavy her contribution is to a song (by their similarities in structure and theme)

[lego 44,165]

Did you all have meeting on madonnanation, like now is the time to post together on GGD, LadY Caca hurted Medönner's feelings ?

 

 

[Jenniferella 2,774]

Dear god. This is one of the reasons Gaga can be insufferable. She basically said "Yeah, we're not comparable because I'm an artist, you know", this is getting really tired. Yes we know she puts a lot of herself into her work but I can't with the fact that she always feels the need to state herself as superior like she's THE only real artist out there.

"Hey girl, hey girl
We can make it easy if we lift each other"

Yeah, my ass.....

[Turbogirl 32]

2 hours ago, MLVC said:

I truly hope you're right and that its true that she was making two separate points and it was just worded poorly.  Her body language and that pointed finger did herself no favors either.   I don't know a lot about Zane Lowe as an interviewer, but it did seem like he was looking for click bait when he asked the question.  Madonna does reference her father in a LOT of songs (Oh Father, Mother and Father, Rebel Heart, etc) but to compare the two is apples and oranges. 

 

I think her body language and tone was aimed at the media (Zane Lowe). So the anger was being pushed back at them for constantly undermining her artistic abilities by suggesting she's just ripping someone else off (or stealing inspiration from others).

It wasn't Madonna that made the comparisons her whole career. It wasn't Madonna that asked her this during the interview. It was the media. 

I guess at the end of the day, we can't 100% know what is in her mind and heart. What she really feels. But I do know that in the context of the question, someone basically brought up the criticism that she isn't original and needs to borrow from others. So her saying she plays instruments professionally and writes all her own songs - again, at least to me, seems more about her and not about Madonna.

Its a direct reply to a crtiticism. Dont get me wrong, purely from a PR point of view this is bad. She came off bad. The way she transitions from her thoughts on Madonna to defending herself - makes it sound like she's talking about what Madonna lacks compared to her. She also got angry and upset. I personally think she has a right to be angry and upset given how much abuse she's gotten from the media - and how he was trying to undermine her efforts of this new album by dragging out that criticism again (without properly setting it up as a serious discussion).

So she made a PR mistake that will def be taken poorly, and won't do her any favors. I don't dispute that. But I still say that if you look at the question and understand what the question means to her (that it is an accusation of her needing to take from others and not being able to write original music) - that the reply is more about her (defending herself) and not about attacking someone else.

Just my take tho.

Edit:

It seems like a lot of folks on here think she has stolen music. The question of whether she maliciously stole (or knowingly stole and then passed it off as her own without acknowledging inspiration) is a deep one.

That's a huge distinction. That's a heavy accusation. If you think she's definitely been influenced (even subconsciously), or even purposefully (so natural influence) - but she won't admit it, those are very different things then saying she maliciously stole and passed things off as her own.

I can tell you that I play piano and guitar professionally. I've worked in the music industry and currently work in the film industry. As someone that writes music and has worked with many other artists, I can't tell you how often you will write a melody that you think is original and amazing - only to find out someone else has already done it (or did something similar). I can't tell you how often songs you've heard in the past - can creep into your subconscious and come out in your writing.

And yes, it happens all the time. Even famous artists with immense talent and originality have this happen to them. Even instances where you have never heard something before, and yet someone has already written the same thing already. Pro tip, pop music is accessible and simple because its chords and structure are basic. And there is only so many ways you can write basic hooks before there will be overlap. When it comes to full on theft, there is some pretty strict standards that must be cleared for it to clearly be theft.

The tricky aspect is where inspiration and influence ends and begins. Because an artist can make a song that clearly is based on something else, but it technically clears not being the same song (so not theft).

Those that think it's obvious that Gaga has borrowed from other artists (whether that's a degree of influence, or purposeful inspiration) - that is totally valid. I'm not saying you guys are wrong. It's a complex discussion.

But what I would say to you is - do you think Gagas career should be defined by this? Do you not think the vast majority of her songs are original? That most of her success, is from her own original writing? Do you think she's maliciously stolen content and tried to pass it off as original?

Because even if you think 4-5 of her songs borrowed from something else, I don't see how that justifies the media bringing this up every step of the way and defining her for it. If they want to actually accuse her of theft, they certainly can. But instead they just dance around it and continually compare her entire career to another artist, and suggest she's not capable of being original. And that is where I struggle to understand why some of you side with the media on this. Even if you think she's borrowed in the past. How is that relevant to her new album?

Unless they want to have an actual discussion on her borrowing.

 

[Lola 78]

2 hours ago, Shawn Lee said:

I don't care  I want gaga to shade her Madonna hated gaga for a long time  we all know Madonna bitter shady and we all know gaga never try to shade or bring someone down 'reductive' comment still hurts me till this day let alone gaga herself I don't want her just to defend herself I expect her to fire back full force it's abt time to do so we all know how much hate gaga have received all those years especially from Madonna and her fans remember there's a website called putyourpawsdown.com dedicated to hate gaga and we all know who's running it if you want call this shade try putyourpawsdown.com you'll lose faith in humanity you can't imagine that kinda hate I actually feel sorry for that guy living in this amount of hatred and probably feeling good about himself that guys 40-50 years old and gaga just turned 30 what kinda people do that ? Ahhhhhhh, never mind .I'm just feel sorry for gaga . I wouldn't want that **** even if I have gagas fame and money 

gaga has said horrible things about madonna for years now, together with DJWS and other people

dont be so stupid

[Lola 78]

turbogirl, will you please just.. stop?

there's no reading around or defending gaga about this. its obvious what she meant and thats what the press is spreading worldwide and madonna does not deserve this. especially coming from an 'artist' who is inspired by madonna. it's a slap in the face.

[Lola 78]

46 minutes ago, DevilHeart said:

Dear god. This is one of the reasons Gaga can be insufferable. She basically said "Yeah, we're not comparable because I'm an artist, you know", this is getting really tired. Yes we know she puts a lot of herself into her work but I can't with the fact that she always feels the need to state herself as superior like she's THE only real artist out there.

"Hey girl, hey girl
We can make it easy if we lift each other"

Yeah, my ass.....

THANK YOU

 

[Turbogirl 32]

5 minutes ago, Lola said:

gaga has bullied madonna for years now, together with DJWS and other people

dont be so stupid

 

I didn't know she bullied Madonna for years. Have some examples? Would rather you not call people idiots, and instead have a meaningful conversation.

I want to see your point of view. Even if we don't agree, I want to understand where you are coming from.

For me, the interview itself doesn't show her bullying. In the context of the conversation, she's defending her own abilities against a claim that she steals others works. So it wasn't about what Madonna doesn't do, it's about what she can do as an artist (in defense of the criticism).

But that said, if Gaga really has a history of aggressively bullying her - that adds a different context (a personal history) to things. And people like me that aren't aware of this bullying might be lacking that context.

So would appreciate any info on this.

[Turbogirl 32]

9 minutes ago, Lola said:

turbogirl, will you please just.. stop?

there's no reading around or defending gaga about this. its obvious what she meant and thats what the press is spreading worldwide and madonna does not deserve this. especially coming from an 'artist' who is inspired by madonna. it's a slap in the face.

Trying to silence others opinions - is not a good look. I explained throughly why based on the interview alone - I do not see the "shade" being thrown. This isn't even about Gaga, it's about comprehension and context in a conversation.

If you don't agree with me, totally valid. We can agree to disagree. I respect your opinion even if it doesn't align with mine. I don't respect the idea that people should just shut up and stop - because you don't agree. I don't agree with your initial posts - and would never tell you to stop and be quiet. Be civil.

Also I updated my posts to directly engage you (see the post above this one). I explained that I wasn't aware of Gagas years of supposed aggressive bullying. So I asked you to provide examples.

I want to see your point of view. Maybe I'm 100% wrong because I lack the context of this personal history of bullying. My opinion is based solely on the interview alone. So if you can provide more context by informing us of this aggressive bullying, maybe it will help some of us understand where you are coming from and how you perceive this interview different from others.

[Leaf 2,429]

1 hour ago, YourSweet666 said:

Did you all have meeting on madonnanation, like now is the time to post together on GGD, LadY Caca hurted Medönner's feelings ?

 

 

My thoughts exactly.

And we're the immature ones?

[MLVC 7]

24 minutes ago, Turbogirl said:

 

I think her body language and tone was aimed at the media (Zane Lowe). So the anger was being pushed back at them for constantly undermining her artistic abilities by suggesting she's just ripping someone else off (or stealing inspiration from others).

It wasn't Madonna that made the comparisons her whole career. It wasn't Madonna that asked her this during the interview. It was the media. 

I guess at the end of the day, we can't 100% know what is in her mind and heart. What she really feels. But I do know that in the context of the question, someone basically brought up the criticism that she isn't original and needs to borrow from others. So her saying she plays instruments professionally and writes all her own songs - again, at least to me, seems more about her and not about Madonna.

Its a direct reply to a crtiticism. Dont get me wrong, purely from a PR point of view this is bad. She came off bad. The way she transitions from her thoughts on Madonna to defending herself - makes it sound like she's talking about what Madonna lacks compared to her. She also got angry and upset. I personally think she has a right to be angry and upset given how much abuse she's gotten from the media - and how he was trying to undermine her efforts of this new album by dragging out that criticism again (without properly setting it up as a serious discussion).

So she made a PR mistake that will def be taken poorly, and won't do her any favors. I don't dispute that. But I still say that if you look at the question and understand what the question means to her (that it is an accusation of her needing to take from others and not being able to write original music) - that the reply is more about her (defending herself) and not about attacking someone else.

Just my take tho.

Edit:

It seems like a lot of folks on here think she has stolen music. The question of whether she maliciously stole (or knowingly stole and then passed it off as her own without acknowledging inspiration) is a deep one.

That's a huge distinction. That's a heavy accusation. If you think she's definitely been influenced (even subconsciously), or even purposefully (so natural influence) - but she won't admit it, those are very different things then saying she maliciously stole and passed things off as her own.

I can tell you that I play piano and guitar professionally. I've worked in the music industry and currently work in the film industry. As someone that writes music and has worked with many other artists, I can't tell you how often you will write a melody that you think is original and amazing - only to find out someone else has already done it (or did something similar). I can't tell you how often songs you've heard in the past - can creep into your subconscious and come out in your writing.

And yes, it happens all the time. Even famous artists with immense talent and originality have this happen to them. Even instances where you have never heard something before, and yet someone has already written the same thing already. Pro tip, pop music is accessible and simple because its chords and structure are basic. And there is only so many ways you can write basic hooks before there will be overlap. When it comes to full on theft, there is some pretty strict standards that must be cleared for it to clearly be theft.

The tricky aspect is where inspiration and influence ends and begins. Because an artist can make a song that clearly is based on something else, but it technically clears not being the same song (so not theft).

Those that think it's obvious that Gaga has borrowed from other artists (whether that's a degree of influence, or purposeful inspiration) - that is totally valid. I'm not saying you guys are wrong. It's a complex discussion.

But what I would say to you is - do you think Gagas career should be defined by this? Do you not think the vast majority of her songs are original? That most of her success, is from her own original writing? Do you think she's maliciously stolen content and tried to pass it off as original?

Because even if you think 4-5 of her songs borrowed from something else, I don't see how that justifies the media bringing this up every step of the way and defining her for it. If they want to actually accuse her of theft, they certainly can. But instead they just dance around it and continually compare her entire career to another artist, and suggest she's not capable of being original. And that is where I struggle to understand why some of you side with the media on this. Even if you think she's borrowed in the past. How is that relevant to her new album?

Unless they want to have an actual discussion on her borrowing.

 

For me her artistic ability was never in question, she's a brilliant lyricist and creates a hell of a great pop song.  And of course there will be similarities between her and other artists, which i chalk up to a combination of coincidence and inspiration.  I guess what I was criticizing  would her the way she comes off as this tortured artist existing on a deeper level than the rest of the pop world.

 

You've convinced me to give her another chance

[Lola 78]

3 minutes ago, Turbogirl said:

Trying to silence others opinions - is not a good look. I explained throughly why based on the interview alone - I do not see the "shade" being thrown. This isn't even about Gaga, it's about comprehension and context in a conversation.

If you don't agree with me, totally valid. We can agree to disagree. I respect your opinion even if it doesn't align with mine. I don't respect the idea that people should just shut up and stop - because you don't agree. I don't agree with your initial posts - and would never tell you to stop and be quiet. Be civil.

Also I updated my posts to directly engage you (see the post above this one). I explained that I wasn't aware of Gagas years of supposed aggressive bullying. So I asked you to provide examples.

I want to see your point of view. Maybe I'm 100% wrong because I lack the context of this personal history of bullying. My opinion is based solely on the interview alone. So if you can provide more context by informing us of this aggressive bullying, maybe it will help some of us understand where you are coming from and how you perceive this interview different from others.

she said it was her dream to piss madonna off

she thanked whitney houston for the inspiration of BTW, and when she did that, she was wearing a blond ambition inspired cone bra and ponytail that are ICONIC and linked to madonna, just like MJ his moonwalk or bowie's lighting symbol (so dont try to say this isnt true) and that the weekend everyone compared her song to madonna's express yourself. so to then thank whitney, was really passive aggressive and shady.

she lied about madonna's approval in an email. that never happened. she made it up.

DJWS called madonna an old hag on multiple occasions.

she said madonna should drink tea that she poisoned. how could anyone say that about another artist, even as a joke?

google "gaga haus of bullies" and you'll see a lot of other examples.

[MLVC 7]

12 minutes ago, Turbogirl said:

 

I didn't know she bullied Madonna for years. Have some examples? Would rather you not call people idiots, and instead have a meaningful conversation.

DJ White Shadow has referred to Madonna as an "Old Hag" and a "****"  while in the studio with Gaga working on ARTPOP under the guise of defending her.  

Gaga hasn't directly said anything overtly negative about Madonna. Quoting from her Stern appearance: “Honestly, I think she’s more aggravated that I’m not upset that she doesn’t like me ... There’s this thing with some people that I’m a threat to the throne… I don’t want your ****ing throne. No thanks. I have my own.I don’t want a throne at all. I don’t view myself as a queen. I view myself as one of my fans."

Seems a bit disingenuous coming from someone calling themselves "Mother Monster" 

[MLVC 7]

10 minutes ago, Lola said:

she said it was her dream to piss madonna off

she thanked whitney houston for the inspiration of BTW, and when she did that, she was wearing a blond ambition inspired cone bra and ponytail that are ICONIC and linked to madonna, just like MJ his moonwalk or bowie's lighting symbol (so dont try to say this isnt true) and that the weekend everyone compared her song to madonna's express yourself. so to then thank whitney, was really passive aggressive and shady.

she lied about madonna's approval in an email. that never happened. she made it up.

DJWS called madonna an old hag on multiple occasions.

she said madonna should drink tea that she poisoned. how could anyone say that about another artist, even as a joke?

google "gaga haus of bullies" and you'll see a lot of other examples.

I definitely think her accepting the Grammy (which was well deserved) dressed as the negative image of the Express Yourself costume was a funny little dig at Madonna and not a true insult.