I hate Pop Music. But I love Gaga. Go Figure.

[15jocart 2,305]

6 minutes ago, wahkeenasitka said:

yeah. i hear you. i try really hard to be non-judgmental overall, but pop music is one of those things that i have an extremely difficult time being non-judgmental about. i totally get that i'm being condescending. *shrugs* 

I'm a music snob myself (most music majors are to an extent) and I don't disagree with you, but I think there's a line between saying "x music is trash" and "x opinion/taste in music is trash." The first one is harsh but can be justified, the second is more of a personal attack and just off-putting for me. But I can totally get your point.

[Oriane 21,006]

Completely agree with you, I don't like pop in general... Gaga's music has something more. I think she puts everything she has - her artistry, her rock/jazz/other influences - in her music, and that's what makes the difference. Besides, she's a great vocalist, a great musician/composer/lyricist, she has a great sense of art and gives a deep meaning when she combines her music with fashion, videos, performance art, etc.

When I'm in a restaurant or a shop and I hear the radio, and all the new pop songs, I really think "what is this ??? And they dare compare Gaga to THAT ?".

However my music culture is not big. I listen to things here and there but I always come back to Gaga, there's really no musician who can make me feel the same things as she does. But I love classical music, I listen to movies/video games OST a lot, I like jazz too.

[Ronk 14,762]

I'm not into pop music either.  I think I've heard more than half of Gaga's songs by now.  Compare that to I have heard exactly one Katy song, one Miley song, and zero Bieber songs ... zero.  My favorite genres in order are jazz, blues, classical, folk, rock, pop, rap, country.  And I like rock 10x better than pop.  I follow Gaga because she is a good, kind person dedicated to helping people.  I also like that she is a very talented creative artist ... not just a pop artist, but an artist in general.   And she uses her talent to inspire art and creativity in her fans.  Just one of the many ways she helps people.

[Chris Evans 8,917]

14 hours ago, wahkeenasitka said:

what the music in the videos i posted?

bat for lashes/ my brightest diamond/ lykke li 

[lodylody 1,746]

1 hour ago, wahkeenasitka said:

yeah. i hear you. i try really hard to be non-judgmental overall, but pop music is one of those things that i have an extremely difficult time being non-judgmental about. i totally get that i'm being condescending. *shrugs* 

Owning up to being condescending and shrugging doesn't somehow validate or excuse being condescending...

As for this entire thread, it seems a tad pretentious. Don't spout your personal opinions as such concrete statements. Pop music is not a bore for all people - a lot of people enjoy it. Fair do's to you that you don't, I respect that and it's cool. I wish I could like all the music you all like, because there's sure as hell a lot of it, and the more songs I listen to the better!

That being said, there's no need to shoot down others in the process.

Also, personally speaking I don't see what separates Gaga so much from other pop artists? The only thing I notice in her is a bit more wackiness and eccentricity than other pop artists.

[wahkeenasitka 1,995]

3 minutes ago, lodylody said:

Owning up to being condescending and shrugging doesn't somehow validate or excuse being condescending...

As for this entire thread, it seems a tad pretentious. Don't spout your personal opinions as such concrete statements. Pop music is not a bore for all people - a lot of people enjoy it. Fair do's to you that you don't, I respect that and it's cool. I wish I could like all the music you all like, because there's sure as hell a lot of it, and the more songs I listen to the better!

That being said, there's no need to shoot down others in the process.

Also, personally speaking I don't see what separates Gaga so much from other pop artists? The only thing I notice in her is a bit more wackiness and eccentricity than other pop artists.

I didn't write this post to have everyone agree with me. Obviously on this board, I wouldn't expect anyone to agree with me.

I've honestly been surprised at how many people DO agree with me.

And I'm totally fine with owning up to being judgmental. Oh well. I've seen way more snarkiness and rudeness on other threads, tbh. 

[lodylody 1,746]

Just now, wahkeenasitka said:

I didn't write this post to have everyone agree with me. Obviously on this board, I wouldn't expect many to. I've been honestly surprised at how many people agree with me. And I'm totally fine with owning up to being judgmental. Oh well. I've seen way more snarkiness and rudeness on other threads, tbh. 

Owning up to things doesn't make them go away. If you kill someone and plead guilty you're still a murderer

Obviously you aren't a murderer though  But please just try and phrase your opinions in a better way that doesn't trash the tastes of others. Just because you've seen people be worse doesn't mean you should be unkind too.

[Hexxx 2,244]

 

14 hours ago, wahkeenasitka said:

well. most pop music is garbage. and has been for decades. 

You hate "mainstream pop." Not pop music as a whole

[nativenewyorker 1,190]

4 hours ago, monsterdino said:

mmm nope, when they asked her on tumblr does she want to sign to a big record label she declined 

yet she wants to be on the radio

radio = mainstream 

[monsterdino 31,991]

7 minutes ago, nativenewyorker said:

yet she wants to be on the radio

radio = mainstream 

I think she meant like she would like to hear her song on the radio

[Raikov 183]

9 hours ago, wahkeenasitka said:

The peak of pop music was in the 80s

Funny, I consider the 80s to be the beginning of the end for pop music. There's a marked decline in the use of some more complex musical structures, like secondary dominants, beginning in the 80s, not to mention that by then the backlash against prog rock had been in full effect and everyone got sucked into using primitive synthesizers and horrendously dated production techniques. The 70s were the last good decade of the 20th century as far as I'm concerned.

In any case, you've given no grounds for us to believe that music used to be better other than the nebulous concept of "soul" (are you the arbiter of soul?) and some indication that suffering leads to good music. It's hard to engage with your conclusion that pop music is "garbage" when you've given no meaningful rubric for music to be judged by! Are melodies not important? What about harmonic progression? Rhythm?

Moreover, you've repeatedly mentioned the amount of sweat, blood and tears indie artists put into their craft, but just because you put a lot of effort into something... doesn't mean it's worthwhile. It's true, there are countless indie musicians working their asses off trying to make it out there. Some of them are good. Most of them are trash, because most of anything is trash. It's impossible for every single worthwhile product to receive the attention it deserves when there is such a large amount of said product.

At the end of the day, it's all pop music. It's not worth getting on a high horse over the music they play at grocery stores. Yeah, it sucks when your taste isn't the mainstream one. I hated the pop music of the 2000s, and I still don't like it now, but acting like I was the gatekeeper of good taste didn't win me any converts. Heck, some folks thought I was the philistine. I don't care what anybody listens to nowadays. Niche acts will always be niche by definition; no huge radio deal is going to make people like the Slavic folk tunes I like. It's not some conspiracy to keep Slavic folk artists down; Slavic folk just has a very limited appeal, like some of those indie acts you cite.

[freebit 6,240]

20 hours ago, wahkeenasitka said:

I just don't say that much on this site. I'm more of a lurker, because pop music is a bore. 

I feel the same. I find what people rave about on here (& other pop forums like ATRL or Popjustice) to be disappointing most of the time - 1989, Dangerous Woman, and Emotion in particular. I don't consider myself hard to please either. 

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

36 minutes ago, Raikov said:

Funny, I consider the 80s to be the beginning of the end for pop music. There's a marked decline in the use of some more complex musical structures, like secondary dominants, beginning in the 80s, not to mention that by then the backlash against prog rock had been in full effect and everyone got sucked into using primitive synthesizers and horrendously dated production techniques. The 70s were the last good decade of the 20th century as far as I'm concerned.

In any case, you've given no grounds for us to believe that music used to be better other than the nebulous concept of "soul" (are you the arbiter of soul?) and some indication that suffering leads to good music. It's hard to engage with your conclusion that pop music is "garbage" when you've given no meaningful rubric for music to be judged by! Are melodies not important? What about harmonic progression? Rhythm?

Moreover, you've repeatedly mentioned the amount of sweat, blood and tears indie artists put into their craft, but just because you put a lot of effort into something... doesn't mean it's worthwhile. It's true, there are countless indie musicians working their asses off trying to make it out there. Some of them are good. Most of them are trash, because most of anything is trash. It's impossible for every single worthwhile product to receive the attention it deserves when there is such a large amount of said product.

At the end of the day, it's all pop music. It's not worth getting on a high horse over the music they play at grocery stores. Yeah, it sucks when your taste isn't the mainstream one. I hated the pop music of the 2000s, and I still don't like it now, but acting like I was the gatekeeper of good taste didn't win me any converts. Heck, some folks thought I was the philistine. I don't care what anybody listens to nowadays. Niche acts will always be niche by definition; no huge radio deal is going to make people like the Slavic folk tunes I like. It's not some conspiracy to keep Slavic folk artists down; Slavic folk just has a very limited appeal, like some of those indie acts you cite.

No, the 1980s was the golden age of pop. I mean this is the decade where all the great artists from the 1950s, 60s and 70s were finally having hits.

For example David Bowie may have wrote his best work in the 1970s but he was largely unacknowledged by the public until the 1980s: his first number 1 was in 1983.

Same as Stevie Wonder, Tina Turner, Elton John, ACDC, Bruce Springsteen, Genesis, Prince, Yes, Lionel Richie, Queen, Herbie Hancock, Diana Ross, Arethra Franklin, Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, U2, Talking Heads, Iron Maiden and more who all had their BIGGEST HITS IN THE 1980s. 

In the 1980s you had the coming together of old and new wave (punk, goth, industrial, hip hop, house) artists influencing each other.

 

[wahkeenasitka 1,995]

1 hour ago, Raikov said:

Funny, I consider the 80s to be the beginning of the end for pop music. There's a marked decline in the use of some more complex musical structures, like secondary dominants, beginning in the 80s, not to mention that by then the backlash against prog rock had been in full effect and everyone got sucked into using primitive synthesizers and horrendously dated production techniques. The 70s were the last good decade of the 20th century as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with you to a certain extent. 

I would say that the 70s were THE peak decade for REAL, authentic music that was being supported by the music industry. I love prog rock too. Prog Rock like Yes, Led Zeppelin, Genesis, Pink Floyd & King Crimson is some of my favorite stuff from the 70s... aside from R&B / Soul, like Marvin Gaye. 

Anyway, I also agree to an extent that the 80s was the beginning of the end for pop music - although, I would say the REAL beginning of the end for pop music didn't happen until Britney Spears came along in the late 90s. (I'm probably about to get blasted on this website for saying that!) But the 80s was a very dynamic decade music wise - and frankly so was the 90s, especially with the birth of "alternative rock"... and then everything went wild and free during that decade. Some of the best music ever made was made during the 90s. 

BUT, in terms of the dynamic plethora of pop music in the 80s, I was actually thinking of it last night - there was a LOT of amazing music and artists during that time frame, and there was a huge DIVERSITY of styles, genres, voices and flavors..... And that is very much what is missing in the current pop music industry. 

When I think of 80s pop music, I think of Madonna & Michael Jackson (of course) - but I also think of U2, Genesis / Phil Collins, Duran Duran, George Michael, Prince & Lionel Ritchie (thanks @Lord Temptation), Cyndi Lauper, Paula Abdul, Janet Jackson, Tina Turner, The Police, Yes, Devo, Boy George... there was just so much, and so many dynamic styles and voices. (Not to mention all the heavy metal / hard rock that I frankly can't stand, but that was so popular at that time.)

I feel like what happened is that ever since the internet became mainstream, I'd say by the late 90s / early 2000s, there was a sharp redirection of focus for the music industry to focus on big celebrity performers, like Britney Spears and Beyonce, rather than spreading the focus on supporting a dynamic buffet of many artists, the music industry people want big blockbuster performers and the rest of the underground artists, who are really talented, just got shafted. I find it really sad. 

[giskardsb 12,565]

Pop music is really designed to be "in the moment" and "disposable".   It's designed for quick hits.  This has always been true.  While great artists do come about in pop music, even in the 50's and 60's we had Hermans Hermits, Fabian, etc, label designed puppets even in those days.  Motown basically created the Jackson Five.  The Pop industry has always been run by labels.  In fact one can easily argue that The Beatles were the first "boy band."  In fact I often do just for entertainment value if I find myself in a crowd of  Beatles fans.  ( I love and respect what the Beatles became btw.)

However, I think that computer production techniques have greatly reduced the actual quality of music in modern pop.   It's poor and a lot of it shows little sign of advanced musical skill.  That doesn't mean that there arn't still enjoyable songs that show up.... but the music is often written following formulas that are proven to be successful to the pop public, and many times by the same small group of swedes that basically control pop music production.

That is one reason I'm so glad that Gaga tends to stay away from those names and use independent producers that have their own voices.

A lot of pop fans are musically ignorant.  By that I mean the true meaning of the word "ignorant", which just means unknowledgeable, not as a derogative.  You can call that pretentious if you want, but many pop fans just have never taken he effort to understand what musicality really means, and in truth don't want to take the effort.  Thats fine, music is to be enjoyed even when it's a simple "bop.", and thats as good of a reason to enjoy a piece as much as deeper musical reasons. But while pop fans complain that "music snobs" are "pretentious", it's just as equally true that many pop fans have no real appreciation of what quality musicianship is, because they haven't taken the time to learn and experience it.

Rock fans appreciate Gaga, because it's evident that she is a "real" musician.  She knows her ****, she's trained, she is somebody that musicians can respect.  I may enjoy the occasional songs by Katy Perry, Rihanna, etc, but I don't respect them as musicians.  Gaga I "stan" for, in large part because I respect her as a musician.  She isn't an entertainer just following a career path decided by the label to maximize profits. She actually gives a damn about what she does and what she says.