P!nk normalises Domestic Violence

[Bebe 16,562]

Just now, M Monstre said:

I don't think that she's necessarily "normalizing domestic violence". Perhaps she's using her art and her music to bring about attention to these issues? P!nk is a very outspoken individual, so I don't think that she's trying to send messages—intentional or not—about "normalizing domestic violence".

But it is interesting to look back on these songs and really analyze these lyrics. It goes to show that lyrics don't make a song, at all. It's the melody and the beat. I mean, look at a song like Chandelier—by the lovely and ever-so-graceful Sia—it's a song about her alcoholism, but with an upbeat melody like the one it has, it was one of the world's most popular songs.

And, side not on Try. The lyrics: "But just because it burns doesn’t mean you’re gonna die/you gotta get up and try, try, try” didn't read in my mind as victim-blaming. I always thought it meant that even when you're at your darkest hour, even when you feel like absolute sh*t, people are here to help you and people are here for you. But that's just my interpretation. 

Of course she isn't trying to send an unintentional message about normalising domestic violence  That would be contradictory. I do think she is sending an unintentional message that normalises domestic violence though. If she is trying to bring attention to domestic violence she is doing it in a poor way  violence here is humorous and flippant. 

The problem is not the Try lyrics by themselves, it's the Try lyrics in the context of the video where she is being punched, kicked, choked and thrown around. She is singing about being in a relationship where she has been hurt and how she needs to get up and keep trying, this is while she is performing a dance routine that depicts domestic violence. 

[ryanripley 86,575]

2 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

The question is who cares?

Im pretty sure no one has ever been inspired to hit their partner by f*cking Pink for crying out loud, nor has anyone felt the target of one of these songs. 

yikes  maybe current/previous victims care?

[Swan Heart 7,382]

Maybe she's just exploring the idea of it. From an artist point of view. She's not putting it in a good light, she's just.. well, singing about it. Singing about trust, love, betrayal. Partners shutting each other down, fighting and getting back together, loving again. Exploring the idea that love sometimes isn't only kisses and smooches but pain and suffering, even obsession that can be quite scary even if it's not meant to be that way.

Maybe she really is expressing her love in a violant way, maybe she's a person that is attached to her partner way too much and she sees that as a weakness which she exaggerates (as many people do with their inperfections) and expresses it in her music and videos.

I think you're just misunderstaning it. I don't see it as "normalising domestic violence" or glorifying it or anyhting like that.

[Bebe 16,562]

3 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

The question is who cares?

Im pretty sure no one has ever been inspired to hit their partner by f*cking Pink for crying out loud, nor has anyone felt the target of one of these songs. 

It contributes to a culture that normalises or downplays the impact of domestic abuse.

When you are an abuser and you watch these videos or listen to the lyrics, it normalises your relationship. It makes it normal, it makes it seem unproblematic.

When you are an abuse victim and you watch these videos or listen to the lyrics, it normalises your relationship. It makes it normal, it makes it seem unproblematic.

If you had even the most basic understanding of abusive relationships you could see how it's problematic

[Bebe 16,562]

16 minutes ago, Swan Heart said:

Maybe she's just exploring the idea of it. From an artist point of view. She's not putting it in a good light, she's just.. well, singing about it. Singing about trust, love, betrayal. Partners shutting each other down, fighting and getting back together, loving again. Exploring the idea that love sometimes isn't only kisses and smooches but pain and suffering, even obsession that can be quite scary even if it's not meant to be that way.

Maybe she really is expressing her love in a violant way, maybe she's a person that is attached to her partner way too much and she sees that as a weakness which she exaggerates (as many people do with their inperfections) and expresses it in her music and videos.

I think you're just misunderstaning it. I don't see it as "normalising domestic violence" or glorifying it or anyhting like that.

She literally sings about the same things an abuser would say though.

"What is it with you that makes me act like this? I've never been this nasty" = "You made me do this to you. If you would just stop doing __ I wouldn't have to hit you"

" I wanna slap you in your whole face... At the same time, I wanna hug you, I wanna wrap my hands around your neck... I hate you, I really hate you, so much I think it must be True love.” = "I do this because I love you"

When she makes a 'funny' parody about seriously harming her partner so he won't leave, she normalises domestic abuse.

When she is being choked and beaten while singing about being hurt and having to get up and try again she is sending the message that no matter how bad it gets in a relationship, no matter if you get hurt you have to keep trying.

When she sings about hating her husband so much that it must be true love, when she sings about how she wants to slap him and put her hands around his neck she is glorifying an unhealthy relationship where true love = intense conflict and threats of violence.

That's putting domestic abuse in a positive light, it's not her singing about domestic abuse, it's her singing songs and making videos that correlate conflict and violence with true love and passion.

[ryanripley 86,575]

9 minutes ago, Bebe said:

It contributes to a culture that normalises or downplays the impact of domestic abuse.

When you are an abuser and you watch these videos or listen to the lyrics, it normalises your relationship. It makes it normal, it makes it seem unproblematic.

When you are an abuse victim and you watch these videos or listen to the lyrics, it normalises your relationship. It makes it normal, it makes it seem unproblematic.

If you had even the most basic understanding of abusive relationships you could see how it's problematic

basically this  

jokes about hitting your boyfriend or acting super jealous over his activity (and the reverse) are very popular on the internet  

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

I definitely see it  

I think "Try" is probably the least effective example though... as shes clearly referring to the what she believes to be, inevitable heartache and "burn" that comes along with loving relationships, and that some things (like a relationship) are worth enduring and persevering, and this really applies to both parties in a monogamous relationship even if its coming from her perspective...That coupled with the video where they are fighting/dancing with each other, shes making the statement that there is an inherent constant tug of war and battle in a relationship where both people are endlessly hurting the other. It's a sentiment I hear often (don't necessarily agree though  ) and I think the combination of the lyrics and video definitely convey this pretty well... 

"True Love" seems to speak more of the position women (and people in general, but stereotypically women) put themselves in because of compulsory heterosexuality (find a man, have him marry you, have his kids, be subservient to him, etc.) Basically, people end up putting up with awful conditions or even convince themselves that they are normal because of societal norms. E.g. one of several reasons people stay in unhealthy or even abusive relationships. Definitely victim blamey as well.

Actually, I guess you could make a similar defense of all of these songs though  It doesn't take away the seemingly problematic aspects of it, and its still enough to normalize/trivialize domestic violence at the end of the day.

~~~

The OP in summary vaguely reminds me of the whole "All Sex is Rape" thought exercise/radical theory and makes me want to ponder the inherent* power imbalances that can be analyzed and deconstructed in relationships and intimacy because of the nature of our gendered society  

I know people probably won't get this post, but I digress, I agree overall and enjoyed your post; it really made me think about some stuff!  

[MJHolland 12,723]

29 minutes ago, ryanripley said:

yikes  maybe current/previous victims care?

 

15 minutes ago, Bebe said:

She literally sings about the same things an abuser would say though.

"What is it with you that makes me act like this? I've never been this nasty" = "You made me do this to you. If you would just stop doing __ I wouldn't have to hit you"

" I wanna slap you in your whole face... At the same time, I wanna hug you, I wanna wrap my hands around your neck... I hate you, I really hate you, so much I think it must be True love.” = "I do this because I love you"

When she makes a 'funny' parody about seriously harming her partner so he won't leave, she normalises domestic abuse.

When she is being choked and beaten while singing about being hurt and having to get up and try again she is sending the message that no matter how bad it gets in a relationship, no matter if you get hurt you have to keep trying.

When she sings about hating her husband so much that it must be true love, when she sings about how she wants to slap him and put her hands around his neck she is glorifying an unhealthy relationship where true love = intense conflict and threats of violence.

That's putting domestic abuse in a positive light, it's not her singing about domestic abuse, it's her singing songs and making videos that correlate conflict and violence with true love and passion.

I have been hit and taken advantage of by a partner in the past, not to say I'm a "victim" of anything. 

I don't think anybody that listen to a Pink song would pick up on these things. It's all about intent. Does Pink intend to glamorize and promote domestic violence? Of course not. That's a baseless and ridiculous claim. 

Just because she depicts it (very vaguely, I might add), it doesn't mean she's promoting it or normalizing it. 

Just because Gaga depicted a woman making herself throw up on stage at a concert doesn't means she's trying to normalize certain eatkmg disorders. 

The arguemt of this thread is the EXACT same argument Demi Lavato had bashing Gaga after SXSW. 

Pink has no malicious intent, it's just in her art very subtly in all of three songs.

Wow, how horrible...

[Bebe 16,562]

Just now, MJHolland said:

 

I have been hit and taken advantage of by a partner in the past, not to say I'm a "victim" of anything. 

I don't think anybody that listen to a Pink song would pick up on these things. It's all about intent. Does Pink intend to glamorize and promote domestic violence? Of course not. That's a baseless and ridiculous claim. 

Just because she depicts it (very vaguely, I might add), it doesn't mean she's promoting it or normalizing it. 

Just because Gaga depicted a woman making herself throw up on stage at a concert doesn't means she's trying to normalize certain eatkmg disorders. 

The arguemt of this thread is the EXACT same argument Demi Lavato had bashing Gaga after SXSW. 

Pink has no malicious intent, it's just in her art very subtly in all of three songs.

Wow, how horrible...

I'm not saying at all that

#1 someone will watch these videos or listen to these lyrics and want to abuse someone
#2 that P!nk intended to promote domestic violence.

I don't think the depictions of domestic violence are vague at all. It's as clear as day, in the first video she is physically assaulting her partner and seriously injuring him constantly. In the second video she is performing a dance where she is clearly physically fighting with her partner, in the third song she is singing about how it must be true love because she wants to slap and choke Carey and because she hates him so much.

It's vastly different to Demi's critique of Gaga promoting eating disorders. While that performance could absolutely be triggering to some people, it seems obvious that it wasn't depicting bulimia as bulimics don't tend to swallow paint with the intent of throwing up on other people. The context of the song also has no reference to eating disorders.

In P!nk's case domestic violence is clearly shown between partners in two videos and in the third song she sings about wanting to slap and choke her partner because it's true love.

[mucinex 4,260]

people need to separate music, movies, shows & ideology from reality. it's not 'normalizing' it because she talks about it in a song, by that standard the betty boop cartoons should be banned, but those are 'classics'. if no one cared for the over a decade long career she had until now about what her lyrics are about why care now? even if she did mean them by now it'd be easy for her to apologize & say it was the 'past her'. so what are people gaining by talking about this? there are people dying out there, like, actually dying. 

[Alcina Dimitrescu 1,156]

So? Its her music, she can write/sing about whetever she wants

[PaperIz 7,261]

I can totally see what you mean tbh. But the dance for try is suppose to represent the good and bad parts of the relationship, not necessarily domestic violence imo

[bionic 37,892]

From what she has said in the past, I'm pretty sure Pink does have a messed up relationship with her husband (not commenting on domestic abuse though) which is why her lyrics are questionable. I think a lot of her fans notice this every time she releases a song. Family Portrait shows that she didn't grow up in a home with idealistic relationships to look up to and everything just continues from there  .

 

The Please Don't Leave Me video is a tribute to horror films (Misery, The Shining etc) so don't think too much of that.  

[Iwontell 7,312]

I see what you're trying to say, but I don't really think like that.

I mean, a lot of what was pointed out could be easily, and maybe more reasonably, interpreted as metaphors to the harm we inflict on each other in an emotional/psychological level...I mean, I've seen "punchbag" being used to describe someone who just passively accepts to be treated poorly - not necessarily being physically assaulted -, I've seen ppl in a moment of anger saying they want to slap someone - not that they'd ever do it, but just to express how they feel, which is not great, but it's pretty innocuous - and even the choreography for try feels more like a visual representation of the mental damage we cause on each other than an actual portrayal of a woman being assaulted.

I think what you're saying comes from a nice place, a place of concern with other ppl, but maybe you're reading too much into it...(and the fact that you're so quick to connect all that to physical abuse makes me wonder if you're ok...is anything bad going on?)

[Bebe 16,562]

9 hours ago, Matt Amor said:

people need to separate music, movies, shows & ideology from reality. it's not 'normalizing' it because she talks about it in a song, by that standard the betty boop cartoons should be banned, but those are 'classics'. if no one cared for the over a decade long career she had until now about what her lyrics are about why care now? even if she did mean them by now it'd be easy for her to apologize & say it was the 'past her'. so what are people gaining by talking about this? there are people dying out there, like, actually dying. 

I can very easily separate music, movies and shows from reality  Nobody is saying it's reality? 

It's normalising domestic abuse when you write a song and create a video that romanticises violence in relationships or treats it as something flippant or humerous. If the genders of these videos were flipped and it was a male beating his wife while singing about how he could "cut her into pieces" and how it's something about her that makes him act like this it would be widely condemned. If it was a male singing about how it must be true love because he just wants to punch and choke  his wife it would be criticised.

Nobody is asking for P!nk's songs to be banned, so that Betty Boop comparison makes no sense.

The point isn't to end her career or even get her to apologise, it's to create conversation about how our culture depicts and normalises domestic abuse. Such criticism would also hopefully encourage a change in the way P!nk depicts love and relationships. There are people dying out there, like, actually dying from domestic abuse relationships. Messages like the ones sent out in P!nk's work are important whether you or she knows it

 

9 hours ago, SecretWeapon said:

So? Its her music, she can write/sing about whetever she wants

Of course she can write and sing about whatever she wants, but that means nothing. That's like yelling "Free Speech!" whenever you are criticised for saying something offensive.

She has the right to sing and write about whatever she wants, and people have the right to criticise her work when it seems problematic.