ARTPOP in depth album analysis

[eifulien 2,956]

Great read! :legend: 

I could add a thought of mine about the first half of the album which shows the many faces of the woman when it comes to love, sex, gender roles. I particulary find interesting the opposition of G.U.Y. with MANiCURE. See, in GUY we hear the voice of the woman that is at the bottom in bed, and it feels good to her, cause she knows she can assume responsibility of this relationship. So, even though she is the bottom in sex, she is actually the top when it comes to managing this love. We have a saying in my language that goes like this: The man may be the head, but the woman is the neck. Hence, woman's crucial role. Ultimately, we hear the powerful woman that doesn't mind to be submissive sometimes.

On the other hand, on MANiCURE we get the woman that is yelling at us. She's angry, she's loud, she seems strong but ultimately makes the confession she needs to be man-cured. Despite her strive for independence and ability to express herself, she admits she needs that healing from the man figure. I like this opposition.

1 hour ago, Tom Hardy said:

It's funny how those who disparage ARTPOP think we defend the album because we couldn't help but to view Gaga as someone who is invulnerable or flawless and delivers a solid record every time she puts out one, when in fact my love for the album comes from a genuine place, I genuinely enjoyed the album, even more than Born This Way which I've witnessed its growth from day one to its end.

This! I think it's ridiculous, since the reason I fell in love with Gaga during ARTPOP is that I actually felt something genuine. And this is simply absent on TF and TFM. I will never understand the people who relate to these 2 albums (not BTW) cause they lack the heart. On ARTPOP she sounds so damaged, so hurt, which makes her human. And I relate to that. I cannot relate to the superhuman all mighty persona of TF/TFM. The moment she started screaming on Aura, the moment she took her wig off, said  "It's my real hair" and shouted SWINE! That's the moment I recognised a human being who was in pain, who suffered for her art, who was tired of fighting for her integrity. I formed a bond on a purely emotional level with her and the album so I guess many here will never understand me, and it's alright.

@PartySick thanks for the DWUW quote. It's the first time I hear it but it confirmed a thought I've had for years about ARTPOP which makes me love the album even more. It's vital to see through things, not only art pieces, this quality is very important irl in order to recognise the rotting swine in the shiny package, and the kind soul covered in mud, to identify the hypocrisy surrounding us. 

@Lord Temptation thanks, honey for always giving interesting points of view on the album. 

@Bad Bromance gurl, where you at? I haven't seen you, jump in. 

Okay I will finish with a metaphor, It may be a reach but it's how I see it. Gaga is honest and gets personal on ARTPOP. But her ARTPOP is like a mirror to herself. So she shows herself through this "mirror". And how much of her reflection you see in the mirror - that's up to your sight. So ARTPOP is a reflection of your own culture, views. Hence, ARTPOP could mean anything, AP is about possibilities and creative freedom. You're invited to join her in this journey, and actually take the time and learn about the people and things that inspire her and she likes to recreate. At the same time, the idea of the whole act is to participate in it, to feel it, not judge on the outside. I call this a genuis and beautiful idea.  

[PartySick 160,204]

6 minutes ago, Son of ARTPOP said:

This! I think it's ridiculous, since the reason I fell in love with Gaga during ARTPOP is that I actually felt something genuine. And this is simply absent on TF and TFM. I will never understand the people who relate to these 2 albums (not BTW) cause they lack the heart. On ARTPOP she sounds so damaged, so hurt, which makes her human. And I relate to that. I cannot relate to the superhuman all mighty persona of TF/TFM. The moment she started screaming on Aura, the moment she took her wig off, said  "It's my real hair" and shouted SWINE! That's the moment I recognised a human being who was in pain, who suffered for her art, who was tired of fighting for her integrity. I formed a bond on a purely emotional level with her and the album so I guess many here will never understand me, and it's alright.

Hmm I think TF and TFM have a heart, but they're less emotional and more significant in other ways. TFM, at least, we can relate to 'cause even though the songs are about the "dark side of fame", they're also about fear which we can all relate to  The Fame really serves as a great breakthrough album, but if she were to release something like that now I'd honestly be disappointed.

I feel you so strongly on the bolded part, though  I was a casual fan up until I watched Swinefest, then I became the obsessed Monster I am now.

Oh! and I love your thoughts on G.U.Y. and MANiCURE  

[eifulien 2,956]

2 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Hmm I think TF and TFM have a heart, but they're less emotional and more significant in other ways. TFM, at least, we can relate to 'cause even though the songs are about the "dark side of fame", they're also about fear which we can all relate to  The Fame really serves as a great breakthrough album, but if she were to release something like that now I'd honestly be disappointed.

I feel you so strongly on the bolded part, though  I was a casual fan up until I watched Swinefest, then I became the obsessed Monster I am now.

Oh! and I love your thoughts on G.U.Y. and MANiCURE  

Hmm, well I'm not saying I dislike TF and TFM. I like them a lot, especially TFM. It's just that my connection to them is purely on musical level. Songs like Alejandro, DITD, SHICD, BR, JD, etc. are  eargasmic to me. So I love them, but they don't necessarily touch me like The Queen, Bad Kids, Aura or Swine. That's what I mean. 

[PartySick 160,204]

1 minute ago, Son of ARTPOP said:

Hmm, well I'm not saying I dislike TF and TFM. I like them a lot, especially TFM. It's just that my connection to them is purely on musical level. Songs like Alejandro, DITD, SHICD, BR, JD, etc. are  eargasmic to me. So I love them, but they don't necessarily touch me like The Queen, Bad Kids, Aura or Swine. That's what I mean. 

I got ya friend

[LaLuna 12,732]

Amazing analysis, @PartySick ! ARTPOP is so underrated, thank you for giving it the review it deserves 

 

[PartySick 160,204]

Just now, TheCountess said:

Amazing analysis, @PartySick ! ARTPOP is so underrated, thank you for giving it the review it deserves 

 

Thank you  

[Edonis 28,950]

Yasssss!!! This was such a joy to read!!! 

[crisTEAne 21,059]

thank ü for this. it was such a nice read.  *bookmarking the thread*

[PartySick 160,204]

5 minutes ago, Edonis said:

Yasssss!!! This was such a joy to read!!! 

Glad you liked it

Just now, skeleton.gun said:

thank ü for this. it was such a nice read.  *bookmarking the thread*

Thank you, I'm honored 

[Togekiss 2,528]

@PartySick wow! I love this review and the part about Swine really stuck with me, it's one of my favorite Gaga songs as well

The thing about it that is so genius to me is how the lyrics can be from either the abuser or the victim's standpoint: "I know, I know, I know, I know you want me. You're just a pig inside a human body... You're just a pig inside." 

It can either be a depiction of someone dehumanizing their victim in order to perpetrate abuse, or Gaga's words later realizing what kind of swine it takes to do something like that. Such an amazing song!

[PartySick 160,204]

1 minute ago, Togekiss said:

@PartySick wow! I love this review and the part about Swine really stuck with me, it's one of my favorite Gaga songs as well

The thing about it that is so genius to me is how the lyrics can be from either the abuser or the victim's standpoint: "I know, I know, I know, I know you want me. You're just a pig inside a human body... You're just a pig inside." 

It can either be a depiction of someone dehumanizing their victim in order to perpetrate abuse, or Gaga's words later realizing what kind of swine it takes to do something like that. Such an amazing song!

I'm glad it gets the love it deserves  thanks for reading

[XoXoJoanneGaga 629]

 

@PartySick Some good ideas in here, but for a few pointers first off most of the themes you outlined are actually topics, which only tells us what a song is about on the surface and nothing of the deeper thematic value and intention behind it. For example, 95% of pop songs have love as a topic, so listing that as a theme for almost each song without any further elaboration is redundant. And if you're going to do an "in-depth" analysis of an album it would serve to actually talk about the music, cause as it stands this is pretty much just you quoting lyrics, then quoting Gaga talking about the songs, and then offering a brief personal interpretation of said lyrics. For example, if you were to do an analysis of The Fame Monster, you could talk about how the chilly, stark atmosphere brought about by the production and vocals reinforces the album's central idea of fame and sex as monstrous vices, or you could talk about the myriad of genre influences that can be found in "Bad Romance". 

So saying "some might say this is a weak album, but I'm here to tell you you're wrong" is misguided when you're merely offering personal interpretations of the lyrics - only one part of the album - and those interpretations are either extremely personal and subjective or very surface level. Personal interpretation is great, but it doesn't do anything to demonstrably quantify and album's merit. 

4 hours ago, Son of ARTPOP said:

This! I think it's ridiculous, since the reason I fell in love with Gaga during ARTPOP is that I actually felt something genuine. And this is simply absent on TF and TFM. I will never understand the people who relate to these 2 albums (not BTW) cause they lack the heart. On ARTPOP she sounds so damaged, so hurt, which makes her human. And I relate to that. I cannot relate to the superhuman all mighty persona of TF/TFM. The moment she started screaming on Aura, the moment she took her wig off, said  "It's my real hair" and shouted SWINE! That's the moment I recognised a human being who was in pain, who suffered for her art, who was tired of fighting for her integrity. I formed a bond on a purely emotional level with her and the album so I guess many here will never understand me, and it's alright.

This is an extremely superficial way of looking at things. First off, the amount of "heart" on an album doesn't directly equate to how emotional or damaged the artist sounds on the vocals. But even if it did, "Bad Romance" and "Speechless" alone would have more heart than almost all of ARTPOP. Where exactly does she sound "so damaged, so hurt" on this album, aside from the obvious "Dope"? I feel like these essays defending the album constantly conflate the surrounding era with the music itself. Yes, she was extremely broken during the album's release and shortly afterwards, and you could feel it in many of the performances, but again where is that found on the album - in either the vocals or the lyrics? In reality she actually sounds pretty bored on much of the record, for example "the moment she started screaming on Aura" may have been powerful during the live performances but on the recorded song it's extremely flat and delivered with no ethos. I could say the same for pretty much every track, including Swine which is supposed to be the explosive, angry release and yet again falls completely flat next to the iTunes Festival version.

But that's a misguided way of judging an album's depth and relatability to begin with. The Fame and Monster succeed partly because they both have well realized aesthetics and concepts, that unify the lyrical content with the musical content. As I touched on above, The Fame Monster conveys it's feelings of isolation, fear, and hedonism not just through the lyrics but through the vocals and production, which creates a consistent, enveloping atmosphere from start to finish. That's something that's easy to connect with for anyone who understands that feeling, and this is something that a number of the tracks on ARTPOP attempted to do as well as the album is quite similar to The Fame Monster musically. The Fame's ideas of "unleashing you inner fame", and choosing your love of fame over romance while simultaneously satirizing modern culture's obsession with the material is a really enticing concept, and the production reflects these ideas by painting a world that sounds extremely polished and brash, like the soundtrack of a fashion magazine, and once again she delivers it with an extreme amount of personality, charisma, and ethos,  - all things that were lacking on AP. To dismiss these albums as unrelatable because she had a "superhuman" persona is completely missing the point, and there are tons of albums out there - ones much more impressive than anything Gaga's done so far - that you'd completely miss the boat on as well if you approached them with that close-minded perspective. 

[TheBatman 951]

 

Aura: from the laugh, to "dance, sex, art, pop" to teasing burqa as if she was going to make some statement about women covering up/religion/gender expectations SOMETHING, despite asking us if we want to see behind her aura, the song never lets us in. "It's not a statement so much as a move of passion" is a good line for the song, cause it's all passion and drama but no statement. Rumoured single

 

Venus: Sounds like the theme song to a cheap sci fi kids show. The parts of the song are very disjointed, each part just starting and stopping abruptly with little tying them together. Has a couple great hooks, but it's just such a joke of a song, and second song in we still haven't said a single thing about anything. I like the little rundown of the planets lol. Rumoured single

 

G.U.Y. I like this one! The production still sounds cheap, but it works ok. I like it alright, and I like that it plays somewhat with gender? Sort of? While ultimately still being about being submissive to a man. Nothing remarkable, just a catchy fun song. SINGLE

 

Sexxx Dreams, I like this one a lot! Same story as GUY, nothing remarkable, just a fun catchy song about sex dreams. I like the production of this one more and her vocals.

 

Jewls....MESS

 

MANiCURE: My favorite so far! Loved it live as well. Great melody, hook, chorus, really feeling this one. STILL, not much of a statement except that the love of a man is like medicine to her. A cool sound for her, could hear more of this style working for her. Once again, not remarkable, but could have performed as a single.

 

DWUW: I like this one a lot! Too bad about R Kelly and the video and all that mess. This has a concrete idea and is fleshed out in the lyrics and makes a great statement about identity and celebrity. Production once again nothing remarkable, but I wanted this song to slay radio and it's too bad how things went.

 

ARTPOP: What an eyeroll. I don't mind the production. I don't mind the melody. It's pretty fun. But puhlease with the lyrics, what a joke. The statement is what? Art and pop music can belong together and I will make it happen! And it means nothing!

 

Swine: Imperfect, but best statement on the album. The production is cool, but sounds dated and cheap to 2016. Needed some more work, but this is the standout track on the album for me as far as artistry goes.

 

Donatelle: B side, just doesn't do it for me. Hate the vocals, lyrics, the production sounds like same sounds used on the rest of the album, just a dumb celebration of being rich but lacking humour.

 

Fashion: B side, but I don't hate it. We are the world we own the world!!! Love that line and her delivery of it. Just a throwaway song though. I like certain things about it, the piano at the beginning.

 

Mary Jane Holland: Dumb BTW B side Reminds me of better songs on BTW. 

 

Dope: just SO contrived, Ugh I wanted to like it, hate the vocals, just, didn't work, the lyrics and melody are so simple and she sings them in such an affected way, it is a fail for me, and the "statement" doesn't work. It comes across college theatre performance.

 

Applause: Very fun song, riffing on her better hits, was disappointed when it came out because I expected something earth shaking and original and we got Gaga parodying Gaga instead.

[eifulien 2,956]

2 hours ago, CoCo1 said:

 

@PartySick Some good ideas in here, but for a few pointers first off most of the themes you outlined are actually topics, which only tells us what a song is about on the surface and nothing of the deeper thematic value and intention behind it. For example, 95% of pop songs have love as a topic, so listing that as a theme for almost each song without any further elaboration is redundant. And if you're going to do an "in-depth" analysis of an album it would serve to actually talk about the music, cause as it stands this is pretty much just you quoting lyrics, then quoting Gaga talking about the songs, and then offering a brief personal interpretation of said lyrics. For example, if you were to do an analysis of The Fame Monster, you could talk about how the chilly, stark atmosphere brought about by the production and vocals reinforces the album's central idea of fame and sex as monstrous vices, or you could talk about the myriad of genre influences that can be found in "Bad Romance". 

So saying "some might say this is a weak album, but I'm here to tell you you're wrong" is misguided when you're merely offering personal interpretations of the lyrics - only one part of the album - and those interpretations are either extremely personal and subjective or very surface level. Personal interpretation is great, but it doesn't do anything to demonstrably quantify and album's merit. 

This is an extremely superficial way of looking at things. First off, the amount of "heart" on an album doesn't directly equate to how emotional or damaged the artist sounds on the vocals. But even if it did, "Bad Romance" and "Speechless" alone would have more heart than almost all of ARTPOP. Where exactly does she sound "so damaged, so hurt" on this album, aside from the obvious "Dope"? I feel like these essays defending the album constantly conflate the surrounding era with the music itself. Yes, she was extremely broken during the album's release and shortly afterwards, and you could feel it in many of the performances, but again where is that found on the album - in either the vocals or the lyrics? In reality she actually sounds pretty bored on much of the record, for example "the moment she started screaming on Aura" may have been powerful during the live performances but on the recorded song it's extremely flat and delivered with no ethos. I could say the same for pretty much every track, including Swine which is supposed to be the explosive, angry release and yet again falls completely flat next to the iTunes Festival version.

But that's a misguided way of judging an album's depth and relatability to begin with. The Fame and Monster succeed partly because they both have well realized aesthetics and concepts, that unify the lyrical content with the musical content. As I touched on above, The Fame Monster conveys it's feelings of isolation, fear, and hedonism not just through the lyrics but through the vocals and production, which creates a consistent, enveloping atmosphere from start to finish. That's something that's easy to connect with for anyone who understands that feeling, and this is something that a number of the tracks on ARTPOP attempted to do as well as the album is quite similar to The Fame Monster musically. The Fame's ideas of "unleashing you inner fame", and choosing your love of fame over romance while simultaneously satirizing modern culture's obsession with the material is a really enticing concept, and the production reflects these ideas by painting a world that sounds extremely polished and brash, like the soundtrack of a fashion magazine, and once again she delivers it with an extreme amount of personality, charisma, and ethos,  - all things that were lacking on AP. To dismiss these albums as unrelatable because she had a "superhuman" persona is completely missing the point, and there are tons of albums out there - ones much more impressive than anything Gaga's done so far - that you'd completely miss the boat on as well if you approached them with that close-minded perspective. 

Okay, providing a meaningful answer to your posts is a challenging task since our perception of the album comes from different places. I was literally talking about my bond with the album being on an emotional level, and how it is about the experience, the feeling, not the rationalisation of it, and you come after me with the vocals argument.

What am I supposed to say? I mean, I can't disgaree with you. Hell, I agree with you. I remember your explanations about the technical aspect of the album and how it is basically f*cked up even compared to BTW. I found your feedback extremely valuable, and you've managed to explain to me many of the complaints we've had with the album versions of the songs. 

You've also said that fans mix up the contents of the album with the era in order to justify their stance on AP. But do you really think they can be always separated? Her mentality during the creation of the album is inevitably reflected onto the material. And she was a hot mess pre-AP and during it. How her sadness and pain is transformed on the album? Well through party music. I know it's the biggest contradiction, but I totally feel this. I was in a very bad place in 2013 and AP has helped me so much. So I just understand why she made this intense explosive music. ARTPOP is an escape from the depression. When I was feeling sad I couldn't listen to anything but this. I didn't want to hear slow and sad music. The sadness was too much inside me, so I wanted something positive and cheerful to surround me. And Gaga did the same. The concept, the visuals - everything is so bright. The music is fun. She has adressed the record for being like an acid, synthetic. And this is obvious in the music, in her vocals. I don't need her vocal delivery to be deep and sad in order to say this album shows how damaged she is. You can sense her pain and anger throughout the record. The narrative starts wtih Aura and continues until MJH (bar the title song). And on MJH this escape buble wears thin. On Dope she makes a confession and sobers up to embrace the love for and from her fans on Gypsy and Applause. 

On TF/TFM - I'm not dismissing them, as I said later on, I like them, I just don't connect with them like I do with BTW and ARTPOP. The latter two may be engineered inferiorly but I'd always take them to the former. I understand your admiration for them as you said how sound and lyrics complement each other and are fully realised conceptually and aesthetically, something that ARTPOP unfortunately didn't manage to do.

I could go on and on, but to a person like you, I'd always seem like I'm reaching or being delusional. But what should I do? Say "My feelings for the album are wrong, it's not good". I mean I can't change the way I'm feeling. ARTPOP is a record to let go of judgement, and embrace the moment, feel it, live in it. If you always want to seek the rationale behind everyhing, you're the one missing out on many things, tbh.  Ultimately, our tastes are a reflection of our personalities, which I guess couldn't be any more different. (if you've done the MBTI I'd actually like to know which type are you, I am an NF type).

On topic, I'm done with this since I really got nothing to add up. I just don't think you can understand this, and I don't really disagree with you, so we'd be going nowhere with the discussion. 

[PartySick 160,204]

3 minutes ago, Son of ARTPOP said:

Snip~

I was trying to think of a way to respond but you said it better than I could have ever tried to