'Crunch time' for Cameron's EU reforms deal

[TiphEret 1,320]

4 minutes ago, MonsterOfSpain said:

It would be cool for them to vote "exit" and that Scotland became independent and stayed in the EU.

I don't know, I guess whatever is best for everyone at the end. If the UK still keep some agreement to have trade with EU and easy way for people to travel and such why not. I understand their concerns and if most citizens don't want to be part of EU anymore and feel too much constraints so be it. However it is true that Scotland is a lot more Europhile but they also take part in the vote for a Brexit anyway so... I think it's unfair the reputation that English get because of Cameron. he does not like EU we know it but I lived in England, not everyone is like that and actually a lot of what he says is paranoid right wing delirium. Like as if foreigners would come to the UK to suck up benefits, they aren't stupid we know UK give not much in comparison to other countries like Denmark or Sweden, even France. The main appeal is English I believe, the culture and London, it's also not that hard to get a job and integrate. 

[MonsterOfSpain 8,331]

Just now, TiphEret said:

I don't know, I guess whatever is best for everyone at the end. If the UK still keep some agreement to have trade with EU and easy way for people to travel and such why not. I understand their concerns and if most citizens don't want to be part of EU anymore and feel too much constraints so be it. However it is true that Scotland is a lot more Europhile but they also take part in the vote for a Brexit anyway so... I think it's unfair the reputation that English get because of Cameron. he does not like EU we know it but I lived in England, not everyone is like that and actually a lot of what he says is paranoid right wing delirium. Like as if foreigners would come to the UK to suck up benefits, they aren't stupid we know UK give not much in comparison to other countries like Denmark or Sweden, even France. The main appeal is English I believe, the culture and London, it's also not that hard to get a job and integrate. 

I think we have to make them feel rejection to that position and encourage them to vote NO in the referendum.

Europeanism should encourage no from British and no to British. It's not the end of the world. Instead, maybe it's the beginning of something better. Sometimes to move forward you have to step back and take the right path.

Paradoxically everyone at the summit was delighted with that deal which only promotes disunity and inequality.

Well, look, don't count on me for that pantomime.

[TiphEret 1,320]

1 minute ago, MonsterOfSpain said:

I think we have to make them feel rejection to that position and encourage them to vote NO in the referendum.

Europeanism should encourage no from British and no to British. It's not the end of the world. Instead, maybe it's the beginning of something better. Sometimes to move forward you have to step back and take the right path.

Paradoxically everyone at the summit was delighted with that deal which only promotes disunity and inequality.

Well, look, don't count on me for that pantomime.

I am not really sure I understand what you mean by the first sentence? So they vote out? 

In a way the Uk does point out at flaws in the EU , I guess it's also an occasion to reevaluate what we want the EU to be? I am all good for free trade and economic agreements, to some extent some human rights policies and such and free circulation but it is true that some EU regulation are interfering too much and EU countries are very different. For example take Sweden they would push green policies way firther but they also have to meet halfway countries like Greece that is facing a crisis now and I don't think they would invest in green policies now... see me point? I am personally against a EU state it is just absurd, the eurozone experiment is enough for me...

[MonsterOfSpain 8,331]

Just now, TiphEret said:

I am not really sure I understand what you mean by the first sentence? So they vote out? 

In a way the Uk does point out at flaws in the EU , I guess it's also an occasion to reevaluate what we want the EU to be? I am all good for free trade and economic agreements, to some extent some human rights policies and such and free circulation but it is true that some EU regulation are interfering too much and EU countries are very different. For example take Sweden they would push green policies way firther but they also have to meet halfway countries like Greece that is facing a crisis now and I don't think they would invest in green policies now... see me point? I am personally against a EU state it is just absurd, the eurozone experiment is enough for me...

I mean that Scottish independents should vote massively to stay in Europe so that if NO wins in the rest of the country maybe they would become independent and stay. 

I know that the current EU is a brothel, but I also believe it can and must change.

The reason I criticize the UK is because they just want to be in the EU for their own interests, impeding a true European Union. I'd understand it if British left, they have every right to it because I think the EU should not be a mandatory empire, but it bothers me that they blackmail the rest of the members in such a vile manner.

And what annoys me even more is that the rest of members let themselves be blackmailed.

[TiphEret 1,320]

1 minute ago, MonsterOfSpain said:

I mean that Scottish independents should vote massively to stay in Europe so that if NO wins in the rest of the country maybe they would become independent and stay. 

I know that the current EU is a brothel, but I also believe it can and must change.

The reason I criticize the UK is because they just want to be in the EU for their own interests, impeding a true European Union. I'd understand it if British left, they have every right to it because I think the EU should not be a mandatory empire, but it bothers me that they blackmail the rest of the members in such a vile manner.

And what annoys me even more is that the rest of members let themselves be blackmailed.

I laughed at the brothel analogy

Yes I understand your point of you. Also right now Greece is in deep ****, they may be taken out of Schengen so migrants can't leave Greece which is like so disgusting on many levels and yet the UE spend days discussing the needs of the UK atm.... priorities anyone? 

[deeman 189]

10 minutes ago, TiphEret said:

I am not really sure I understand what you mean by the first sentence? So they vote out? 

In a way the Uk does point out at flaws in the EU , I guess it's also an occasion to reevaluate what we want the EU to be? I am all good for free trade and economic agreements, to some extent some human rights policies and such and free circulation but it is true that some EU regulation are interfering too much and EU countries are very different. For example take Sweden they would push green policies way firther but they also have to meet halfway countries like Greece that is facing a crisis now and I don't think they would invest in green policies now... see me point? I am personally against a EU state it is just absurd, the eurozone experiment is enough for me...

There is no free trade when you have subsidies. Subsidies are all over with government like in agriculture with the US having lax regulation more lax than the EU so with TTIP the American subsidies and lax regulation would force the EU to compete at lowering regulation. If your an African farmer you don't get the subsidy so even though your labour costs are lower when a ship full of American or European crops turns up in the port you go out of business and the corporations buy your land for peanuts this is what they call free trade and the UK can do the same thing with or without the EU.

[TiphEret 1,320]

3 minutes ago, deeman said:

There is no free trade when you have subsidies. Subsidies are all over with government like in agriculture with the US having lax regulation more lax than the EU so with TTIP the American subsidies and lax regulation would force the EU to compete at lowering regulation. If your an African farmer you don't get the subsidy so even though your labour costs are lower when a ship full of American or European crops turns up in the port you go out of business and the corporations buy your land for peanuts this is what they call free trade and the UK can do the same thing with or without the EU.

I am sorry but this is quite technical and I have no idea what you mean by subsidy and how it works but I am all ears. What is the relation with TTIP?

[deeman 189]

37 minutes ago, TiphEret said:

I am sorry but this is quite technical and I have no idea what you mean by subsidy and how it works but I am all ears. What is the relation with TTIP?

Subsidy is when you take money in taxes and then that money goes to the EU and they give it to farmers and tell them what to grow basically we will give you this much if you grow this and that much if you grow the other. Then when you buy the food you don't realise the true cost because you paid a lot more for it in taxation to subsidise the farmers. Because of this then European or American food is cheaper at the point of sale than even poor countries so they can drive them all out of business. There are other subsidies as well such as the price of the oil is kept down but really people pay a lot for military to keep it flowing at those prices. There is the roads which are subsidised either by the goverment or motorists while the heavy supermarket lorries and other such large vehicles cause most damage etc. So basically it is all a system to make things look cheap when they arn't coz in Europe you are also subsidising the health costs of eating all of this low quality contaminated food. The reality is that it is counterfeiting because they are selling fake food it looks kind of like food but it isn't the real deal and it is getting worse every year with essential minerals disappearing from the soil. The productivity is also very low and because organic foods don't receive subsidy they appear more expensive when in real terms they are much cheaper. There is more too it because there is also land use legislation which basically restricts people from having gardens for long term food production and homes so for example nut trees take years to grow but the labour is much less than even going to the store and then you have the nuts for free and they are healthy and high quality so it is a subsidy to prevent you from doing that basically all a scam coz nuts are expensive and good for you and people end up eating lower quality foods much lower because of all of this it even effects your ability to think clearly so the loss is astronomical.