coolninjaguy 1,239 Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 most people really dont care...monsters overthink things a lot. The gp just listens to whatevers good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FameHookah 4,595 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 My fave song along with Just Dance Venus Shiesse and Applause ? WTF is MDNA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Temptation 11,209 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 47 minutes ago, Alien Tulip said: Never happened lol as if anybody feels guilty for supposedly "turning their back" on a pop star like we don't have bigger problems to deal with like bills, work and family. A lot of original gaga fans may not be a fan of ARTPOP but they haven't really turned their back on Gaga. They are just waiting for the next album is all. I love Gaga but at the same time I love her as an musician and not so much about everything else like her philanthropy work I couldn't care less for. I and a lot of earlier fans are happy for her now but at the same time we are not going to blindly like everything she does like some of her fans do. We may not like a performance or direction she's heading towards but that doesn't mean we are going to turn our backs because there's always a next album to look forward to. How presumptuous of you to say "it never happened". You say that "a lot of the original Gaga fans are not a fan of ARTPOP". Actually, most of those so called "original Gaga fans" have not even heard ARTPOP. That is my point. They never even gave it a chance. Ironically that is exactly the kind of fan that Gaga wrote ARTPOP for: the slaves to the culture of the popular. On the other hand, instead of looking for cheap substitutes, a true fan tries to understand why an artist evolves, and will not walk away from ideas that are challenging or confronting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Temptation 11,209 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 16 minutes ago, coolninjaguy said: most people really dont care...monsters overthink things a lot. The gp just listens to whatevers good. I can't help it if Gaga makes me think. Music is not just noise you know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolninjaguy 1,239 Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 1 minute ago, Lord Temptation said: I can't help it if Gaga makes me think. Music is not just noise you know. She make you think, not the maority of the world that craves music. Music is obviously more than noise but theres a fineline between good music and bland/overproduced music with a preachy message. If ARTPOP was so good it didnt have a need for promo. The fame didnt have promo in the beginning but it was good music, and thats what made gaga Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Temptation 11,209 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 3 minutes ago, coolninjaguy said: She make you think, not the maority of the world that craves music. Music is obviously more than noise but theres a fineline between good music and bland/overproduced music with a preachy message. If ARTPOP was so good it didnt have a need for promo. The fame didnt have promo in the beginning but it was good music, and thats what made gaga It's perfectly fine if you don't understand the concept of ARTPOP and I won't knock you for it. I suppose I see things others don't see. I get ARTPOP. At the same time, you don't need to knock something simply because you don't connect with it. Also, you seem to have so many rules in your mind about what makes something a success and what made Gaga etc. How funny because ARTPOP helps me free my mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundwave 193 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 11 hours ago, Didymus said: I think people genuinely miss that pop star that is just MILES ahead of typical pop stars that aren't really bringing anything new and exciting to the table. I'm known here for my extreme TF stanning, but I do believe that for a lot of people Gaga in 2008-09(-10 for some people) was that pop star. Her songs were incredibly radio friendly but simultaneously they just rang of timeless pop glory that could easily appeal to people who liked various genres. That was the key to her success back then. I think people miss that pop star that can make them feel like they're witnessing something special again in pop music. I'm not surprised that songs like Poker Face become more popular because, let's face it, that song still sounds just as good and fresh and current as the biggest pop hits today, even though after 7 years it still sounds exactly as nostalgic and "old school" as it did in 2008. Which is amazing. That song will never die. It will always remind people of how deliriously good pop music can/had be(en). You don't think that Adele makes people "feel like they're witnessing something special [in pop music]"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,379 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 1 minute ago, soundwave said: You don't think that Adele makes people "feel like they're witnessing something special [in pop music]"? No.. lol When Adele broke through you didn't hear people go: "Finally we have an interesting pop star again!" She's more of a soul artist anyway and obviously she doesn't fill the void that's been left by Gaga since 2009(-10). She's not a spectacle entertainment act, she's a singer-songwriter. If a "new Gaga" would arise no one would think her and Adele were competition Two completely different contexts imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creyk 17,805 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 17 minutes ago, soundwave said: You don't think that Adele makes people "feel like they're witnessing something special [in pop music]"? Are you stupid? Like I'm genuinely curious right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeman 189 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 3 hours ago, Lord Temptation said: How funny because ARTPOP helps me free my mind. 3 hours ago, Lord Temptation said: mmm yeah ARTPOP is so good like the dope song at first i was like wtf but after a while this is life changing song. I read in the comments someone asking for the transcript coz they wanted to use it in their drug rehab centre to help their clients. Or you look at till it happens to you that is some magic really it is like the best song really and I really relate to it being raped but in different ways like the time i got attacked by a doorman and was almost killed. This song is like overcoming some big proplems. it is hardcore not for the general public who just want to tollerate any which what no this is song for people who have boundaries and stand for something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,379 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 6 hours ago, Lord Temptation said: I feel as though fans of 2008-2010 Gaga are finally feeling guilty for turning their back on her after 2011. In the beginning of her career Gaga presented herself as an enigma. She had audiences (especially the paparazzi) bewildered and constantly guessing her next move. "Is she a Lady or is she a man?", "Is she real or fake?" etc. By the start of 2010, and with the release of Monster at the end of 2009, Gagamania had hit the stratosphere and peaked as the whole world woke up to find that all along the joke had been on them. It was a rude awakening. Gaga was not a puppet. So while for much of 2008-09 she reveled in her persona as the MOST PLASTIC POP STAR THERE EVER WAS, by 2010 it had dawned on the GP that this was all a carefully crafted illusion. Not only was Gaga serious but she had powerful messages she wanted to convey. This surprised (and offended) many who felt caught off-guard. So by the time of the release of Born This Way in 2011 most of the GP had already decided to abandon Gaga, who felt like she was reaching out only to the outcasts of society (hollow euphemism: pandering). Not to say that the BTW era was not stupendously successful. It was. Especially the BTW Ball Tour the next year in 2012 (she sold 200,000 concert tickets in Australia alone). But by then the media fallout was huge. "She is too political". "She tries too hard". "She takes herself TOO seriously". "She is copying Madonna". "Shut up and sing". BLA BLA BLA. Anyway by 2013 with the release of ARTPOP (a concept album dedicated to all ex-Monsters), Gaga was just waiting for the public backlash that had been brewing since 2011. The media were ready to burn her at the stake. 2013 was Gaga's lowest year. But while most of the modern universe had retreated to mindless EDM-pop, looking for the next Gaga (Miley?) or Anti-Gaga (Lorde?), it was the legendary performers of yesteryear who acknowledged Gaga's talent. Fast forward to 2014 and with Cheek to Cheek debuting at No 1 on Billboard, winning a Grammy, all of a sudden the public realized that they made a big mistake pretending that Gaga would simply go away. I would say the turning point was early 2015, during the Oscars ceremony. Gaga was declaring: "I am the opposite of everything you hate about modern music. You can hate me all you want but you cannot deny that I deserve my rightful place in the company of legends". So right now, there are millions of people going through massive Gaga benders. Revisiting a time in their life where - unliek today - they were actually receptive to alien beings from outer space, less hostile to people who mean what they say, even if we don't yet fully understand what they are saying. Can't agree with that. First of all, why would anyone feel guilty? I don't think that so far Gaga has really proven them wrong. I understand that a lot of people are excited about her 2014-15 ventures, but from the perspective of a 2008-09 fan I can say that the last two years could easily confirm what some of her critics have said from the beginning: she's not gonna last as a pop star. After an era that nearly ended her career, she transformed herself into a jazz singer, Malibu celebrity and actress, distancing herself from the past and basically systematically contradicting everything she said about herself early on. People who loved her during TF/TFM and then got bored have no reason to feel "proven wrong" by the last years at all. For the most extreme haters, her recent transformation is just the latest in a hollow series of attempts to keep herself standing, hoping no one will notice how empty she really is. The fact that she's singing covers for two years only strengthens that idea. (Just editing in a reminder to everyone that I loved 2014-15. I'm only responding to Lord Temptation's post here.) The rude awakening is also way off. You're just one of the embarrassingly large amount of fans here that forgot Gaga made some of her most elegant and developed statements on art, fame and pop culture in 2008 alone. She was no plastic pop girl who deceived the masses at all, in fact she was praised by media and mass opinion as someone who embodied the plastic pop girl, but at the same time transcended it with wit, intelligence, social commentary, true talent and a real personality. So that basically negates everything you wrote. Personally, I think the "rude awakening" was that she became a fan service act. She started isolating her fanbase as a separate social category and her interviews, appearances and performances became predictable and unalluring because not exciting. I also think that the "Born This Way message" is overrated in this fanbase. In actual truth, her most important statements about support for the gay community came from 2008-09-10, not afterwards. So again: the idea that she challenged the audience with BTW is complete fiction. I'd personally say that she only challenged them with an exploded, less interesting version of everything she had already done, inevitably boring an audience that now had the opportunity to put her in a box and move on - which for her as an artist was a major failure. (Editing in a reminder that this isn't necessarily how I feel about the BTW era. As a fan you obviously have a different perspective. I'm only talking about how I think a wider audience would've perceived it, though I have to admit that I wasn't impressed with the majority of what BTW had to offer.) What I also find a bit amusing is that you're pretending that the public is in some kind of educational program when it comes to Gaga. People aren't stupid. And just in another thread we had a nice discussion about how Gaga's own fanbase rarely cares about Gaga's artistic statements and prefers to simply bathe in her being better than her competition in whatever way. The simple truth of the matter is that she had the most to say in 2008-09 and then repeated it in different accents up to 2013. I agree that during 2014-15 she took on a different position in the pop world, but I wouldn't say she won the public "back" nor would I say the public now realizes how amazing she really has been this entire time. Most reactions I hear are in the vein of: "Finally she ditched the gimmicks and is showing how talented she is." So that would actually contradict what you're saying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Temptation 11,209 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 12 hours ago, Didymus said: 10 minutes ago, deeman said: mmm yeah ARTPOP is so good like the dope song at first i was like wtf but after a while this is life changing song. I read in the comments someone asking for the transcript coz they wanted to use it in their drug rehab centre to help their clients. Or you look at till it happens to you that is some magic really it is like the best song really and I really relate to it being raped but in different ways like the time i got attacked by a doorman and was almost killed. This song is like overcoming some big proplems. it is hardcore not for the general public who just want to tollerate any which what no this is song for people who have boundaries and stand for something. 11 minutes ago, deeman said: mmm yeah ARTPOP is so good like the dope song at first i was like wtf but after a while this is life changing song. I read in the comments someone asking for the transcript coz they wanted to use it in their drug rehab centre to help their clients. Or you look at till it happens to you that is some magic really it is like the best song really and I really relate to it being raped but in different ways like the time i got attacked by a doorman and was almost killed. This song is like overcoming some big proplems. it is hardcore not for the general public who just want to tollerate any which what no this is song for people who have boundaries and stand for something. I think people genuinely miss that pop star that is just MILES ahead of typical pop stars that aren't really bringing anything new and exciting to the table. I'm known here for my extreme TF stanning, but I do believe that for a lot of people Gaga in 2008-09(-10 for some people) was that pop star. Her songs were incredibly radio friendly but simultaneously they just rang of timeless pop glory that could easily appeal to people who liked various genres. That was the key to her success back then. I think people miss that pop star that can make them feel like they're witnessing something special again in pop music. I'm not surprised that songs like Poker Face become more popular because, let's face it, that song still sounds just as good and fresh and current as the biggest pop hits today, even though after 7 years it still sounds exactly as nostalgic and "old school" as it did in 2008. Which is amazing. That song will never die. It will always remind people of how deliriously good pop music can/had be(en). "Dope", or as it was originally called "I Wanna Be With You", was such an important song for me last year. I think you needed to be at breaking point, or at least a critical point in your life to comprehend the meaning. It's hard for me to hear now but when ARTPOP was released Dope saved me. I gave up weed too. But more importantly I started to look after myself better. A ****ing profound protest song: do you love what you love more than you hate what you hate, and if so, will you fight to let go of the things you hate in order to hold onto what you love most? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Temptation 11,209 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 31 minutes ago, Didymus said: Can't agree with that. First of all, why would anyone feel guilty? I don't think that so far Gaga has really proven them wrong. I understand that a lot of people are excited about her 2014-15 ventures, but from the perspective of a 2008-09 fan they only confirm what they could've thought: she's not gonna last as a pop star. And guess what, after an era that nearly ended her career, she transformed herself into a jazz singer, Malibu celebrity and actress. People who loved her during TF/TFM have no reason to feel "proven wrong" by the last years at all. For the most extreme haters, her recent transformation is just the latest in a hollow attempt to keep herself standing while she really has nothing to say anymore. The fact that she's singing covers for two years only strengthens that. The rude awakening is also way off. You're just one of the embarrassingly large amount of fans here that forgot Gaga made some of her most elegant and developed statements on art, fame and pop culture in 2008 alone. She was no puppet, in fact she was praised by media and mass opinion as someone who embodied the plastic pop girl, but at the same time transcended it with wit, intelligence, social commentary, true talent and a real personality. So that basically negates everything you wrote. Personally, I think the "rude awakening" was that she became a fan service act. She started isolating her fanbase as a separate social category and her interviews, appearances and performances became predictable and unalluring because not exciting. I also think that the "Born This Way message" is overrated in this fanbase. In actual truth, her most important statements about support for the gay community came from 2008-09-10, not afterwards. What I also find a bit amusing is that you're pretending that the public is in some kind of educational program when it comes to Gaga. People aren't stupid. And just in another thread we had a nice discussion about how Gaga's own fanbase rarely cares about Gaga's artistic statements and prefers to simply bathe in her being better than her competition in whatever way. The simple truth of the matter is that she had the most to say in 2008-09 and then repeated it in different accents up to 2013. I agree that during 2014-15 she took on a different position in the pop world, but I wouldn't say she won the public "back" nor would I say the public now realizes how amazing she really has been this entire time. Most reactions I hear is: "Finally she ditched the gimmicks and is showing how talented she is." So that would actually contradict what you're saying. You're desperation stinks all the way here (And I'm from Sydney!). I see how you love speaking on behalf of, in your own words, "extreme haters". Funny how you love to say such dismissive and ignorant things about an artist, like it's a sport. But that's what critics do, isn't it? Say something (anything) negative, cloaked in a pseudocompliment ("Gaga was the **** in 09") just to get a reaction. Typical bully mentality. You want to know what my reaction is? First and foremost, lots of laughter. But more importantly I feel sorry that you feel threatened and are terrified about Gaga's comeback. Because if any other singer had endured what Gaga did in 2013...well let's just say they wouldn't be performing at the Oscars to a standing ovation and universal acclaim! Finally, you really don't need to namedrop other artists like Grimes and FKA Twigs just to support your lonely, weak diatribes. If you knew a single thing about art then you would know that art is not a competition. It's not an arm-wrestle. Its not a sport. It's more than just the sum of it's parts, yet with the sterile way you talk about artists, putting labels on everything, you really do diminish the conversation. I think you need to have a good listen to ARTPOP, in particular the title track ARTPOP (a hybrid can withstand these things) and Applause (the bit where Gaga stands waiting for us to crash the critics saying "is it right or is it wrong") Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,379 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Just now, Lord Temptation said: You're desperation stinks all the way here (And I'm from Sydney!). I see how you love speaking on behalf of, in your own words, "extreme haters". Funny how you love to say such dismissive and ignorant things about an artist, like it's a sport. But that's what critics do, isn't it? Say something (anything) negative, cloaked in a pseudocompliment ("Gaga was the **** in 09") just to get a reaction. Typical bully mentality. You want to know what my reaction is? First and foremost, lots of laughter. But more importantly I feel sorry that you feel threatened and are terrified about Gaga's comeback. Because if any other singer had endured what Gaga did in 2013...well let's just say they wouldn't be performing at the Oscars to a standing ovation and universal acclaim. Finally, you really don't need to namedrop other artists like Grimes and FKA Twigs just to support your weak, lonely diatribes. But if knew a single thing about art you would know that art is not a competition. It's not an arm-wrestle. Its not a sport. It's more than the sum of it's parts, but with the way you talk about artists, putting labels on everything, you really do diminish the conversation. I think you need to listen to ARTPOP, in particular the title song ARTPOP (a hybrid can withstand these things) and Applause (the bit where Gaga stands waiting for us to crash the critics). Dismissive and ignorant? Bully mentality? Threatened and terrified about her comeback? Grimes and FKA twigs? Competition? Putting labels on everything? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeman 189 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 1 hour ago, Lord Temptation said: more importantly I started to look after myself better. A ****ing profound protest song: do you love what you love more than you hate what you hate, and if so, will you fight to let go of the things you hate in order to hold onto what you love most? Yeah that is real good that you are doing well. So pleased and inspired. I also like the brooklyn nights song. That one is real nice the idea that some of those girls maybe even if they didn't know it at the time but they weren't prepared to settle for the brooklyn nights happy. Such a great metaphor. I had quite a special American female friend once and our apartment was knocked down and replaced with some food gardens so even if she had the key there wouldn't be any door to open. That makes that song all the more fun for me it really was something to look at the open air where that place had been. 1 hour ago, Lord Temptation said: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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