Economy 53,135 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 At that age, what if it does ok when people were living shorter lives working till 65 was accepted i dont u derstand why ppl always refuse to face reality. The worlds bloated governments and financial problems in part is because citizens refuse to accept necessairy sacrafices when something needs adjustment and so the can is kicked down the road while you let the problem get worse. Governemnts who actually advocate to make difficult decisions often dont ge elected and the parties that give in to winning get elected and problems are never solved Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic 20,830 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 ok when people were living shorter lives working till 65 was accepted i dont u derstand why ppl always refuse to face reality. The worlds bloated governments and financial problems in part is because citizens refuse to accept necessairy sacrafices when something needs adjustment and so the can is kicked down the road while you let the problem get worse. Governemnts who actually advocate to make difficult decisions often dont ge elected and the parties that give in to winning get elected and problems are never solved I was just making a devil's advocate joke about advanced age people being frail I don't actually have an opinion on this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,135 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I think work is not reflecting reality when it comes to actually living your life, simple as that. Like that's "the choice" we are given but there is no choice given to us so I think indeed it is questionnable to consider the whole system and pension included. Economy seems the only thing taken into account when talking about work and pension but honestly that's not the main focus of many people in life. They don't even know how it works and that's totally unfair well... If u didnt make people deduct, too many wouldnt... Then when you turn 75 or 80 and are too weak or sick to work but are still alive then what? Countries should do what we do in Canada. The Conservatives have kept mandatory CPP deductions low to support enough income at retirement for only most basic necessities... However theres all kinds of innitiatives for people to make their own RSPs and save more money. The Government forcing enough deduction so you can survive and not be a burden on welfare i think is justified. Forcing high deductions i dont support. People should decide for themselves whether or not they wanna deduct enough for a comfortable living now one thing is for sure. Government pension isnt an individual RSP account. The deductions you make now dont fund your retirement, it funds the ones currently retired... the money baby boomers deducted to pension fund has already been spent on past generations and now to sustain so many old people reforms need to be made. The fact that it sucks doesnt change reality Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,135 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I was just making a devil's advocate joke about advanced age people being frail I don't actually have an opinion on this oh ok nvm cuz some ppl say we shouldnt raise retirement age cause it stinks to work till your older but im just like... What part of the reality problem does that change? Lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic 20,830 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 oh ok nvm cuz some ppl say we shouldnt raise retirement age cause it stinks to work till your older but im just like... What part of the reality problem does that change? Lol I'm not one to judge anyone's life or retirement or whatever, after all I'm still reeling that I lived to make it to 18, so my political views on something as broad as the concept of life and retirement age shouldn't matter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bette Davis 12,742 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Well at least you Europeans will always have us Americans to make you feel better Cold as ice cream, but still as sweet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiphEret 1,320 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 well... If u didnt make people deduct, too many wouldnt... Then when you turn 75 or 80 and are too weak or sick to work but are still alive then what? Countries should do what we do in Canada. The Conservatives have kept mandatory CPP deductions low to support enough income at retirement for only most basic necessities... However theres all kinds of innitiatives for people to make their own RSPs and save more money. The Government forcing enough deduction so you can survive and not be a burden on welfare i think is justified. Forcing high deductions i dont support. People should decide for themselves whether or not they wanna deduct enough for a comfortable living now one thing is for sure. Government pension isnt an individual RSP account. The deductions you make now dont fund your retirement, it funds the ones currently retired... the money baby boomers deducted to pension fund has already been spent on past generations and now to sustain so many old people reforms need to be made. The fact that it sucks doesnt change reality Yes I know I am not syaing the opposite but I feel like such reform are small patches on big wounds if you see what I mean, I just think that the whole working and pension system should be rethink but it's impossible in a our current societies because we elect people for like what 5 years at most? and then what they do is undone by their successor... At the end I am afrais it's up to us, individual to either find gap in the system or save for ourselves Sur le sable sur la neige, Sur les images dorées,Sur le front de mes amis, J’écris ton nom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,135 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yes I know I am not syaing the opposite but I feel like such reform are small patches on big wounds if you see what I mean, I just think that the whole working and pension system should be rethink but it's impossible in a our current societies because we elect people for like what 5 years at most? and then what they do is undone by their successor... At the end I am afrais it's up to us, individual to either find gap in the system or save for ourselves i dont think its a patch work. Raising retirement age to 67 and old age security (not every coutry has that, we do) already saves Billions of Dollars annually... raising deductions slightly can also help. I just think the age going up should be done cause if we rely on higher premiums alone then they would have to go up a lot incentives to work longer may also help. Our Conservatives have talked about increasing reward for those who choose to work past standard age so they will pay taxes longer and be productive longer, but people would get to do this by choice. Additionally, stripping out the financial portion of the problem, from an economic stand point we have technology on our side... Technology allowing for ever more automation and fast production will help maintain our productive capacity even if our labor force keeps shrinking People spend longer years now than ever before now not working with longer school years and longer life span after retirement. Increased productivity from technology and innovation has helped to keep us going Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiphEret 1,320 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 i dont think its a patch work. Raising retirement age to 67 and old age security (not every coutry has that, we do) already saves Billions of Dollars annually... raising deductions slightly can also help. I just think the age going up should be done cause if we rely on higher premiums alone then they would have to go up a lot incentives to work longer may also help. Our Conservatives have talked about increasing reward for those who choose to work past standard age so they will pay taxes longer and be productive longer, but people would get to do this by choice. Additionally, stripping out the financial portion of the problem, from an economic stand point we have technology on our side... Technology allowing for ever more automation and fast production will help maintain our productive capacity even if our labor force keeps shrinking People spend longer years now than ever before now not working with longer school years and longer life span after retirement. Increased productivity from technology and innovation has helped to keep us going I think we don't really talk about the same topic but nevermind I understand your point and it's true but I am not an expert... Sur le sable sur la neige, Sur les images dorées,Sur le front de mes amis, J’écris ton nom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,135 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I think we don't really talk about the same topic but nevermind I understand your point and it's true but I am not an expert... oh sorry i added a sentence to my last comment but i guess the save didnt go through. Glitchy GGD What my comment was suppostu also include was regarding what you said about things not getting done... I said one issue with democracy is that for it to work people #1 must be informed, and #2 they must be willing to think past themselves and think of the greater good for a Nation as a whole People fail at both and as a result democracy is not working the way it may have been intended to do. Were not discussing different things... i meant to include this on my last comment as well but it didnt show Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiphEret 1,320 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 oh sorry i added a sentence to my last comment but i guess the save didnt go through. Glitchy GGD What my comment was suppostu also include was regarding what you said about things not getting done... I said one issue with democracy is that for it to work people #1 must be informed, and #2 they must be willing to think past themselves and think of the greater good for a Nation as a whole People fail at both and as a result democracy is not working the way it may have been intended to do. Were not discussing different things... i meant to include this on my last comment as well but it didnt show Ahaha that's ok no worries ;) I agree with you regarding democracy! Sur le sable sur la neige, Sur les images dorées,Sur le front de mes amis, J’écris ton nom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc 4,776 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 oh sorry i added a sentence to my last comment but i guess the save didnt go through. Glitchy GGD What my comment was suppostu also include was regarding what you said about things not getting done... I said one issue with democracy is that for it to work people #1 must be informed, and #2 they must be willing to think past themselves and think of the greater good for a Nation as a whole People fail at both and as a result democracy is not working the way it may have been intended to do. Were not discussing different things... i meant to include this on my last comment as well but it didnt show But is it really that much better for the exonomy to raise retirement age? Okay, you might have a 1% of GDP govt spenditure cut, allowing for lower taxes, but all of that money would've been spent anyways so it's merely a redistribution (that doesn't hurt fhe economy). The only way it helps the economy is by letting people work hard, and I don't know if that's what we (morally) should strive for. Personally I'll stop working when I've got a big house and enough money to go on expensive vacations and live a luxurious life based on the interest rate of my savings (obligations, investments) . So probably when I'm about 55. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,135 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 But is it really that much better for the exonomy to raise retirement age? Okay, you might have a 1% of GDP govt spenditure cut, allowing for lower taxes, but all of that money would've been spent anyways so it's merely a redistribution (that doesn't hurt fhe economy). The only way it helps the economy is by letting people work hard, and I don't know if that's what we (morally) should strive for. Personally I'll stop working when I've got a big house and enough money to go on expensive vacations and live a luxurious life based on the interest rate of my savings (obligations, investments) . So probably when I'm about 55. its not just lower taxes, premiums etc... its also more people doing nothing and not producing when your retired, you dont really contribute to economic output... you produce nothing, and whatever you consume is funded by taking someone elses purchasing power away (the premiums they pay to sustain pension fund for those currently retired) Financially yeah a 2 year rise might only make a difference of about 1% of GDP in spending (which is like 4% to 5% of over-all budgets btw)... But In terms of GDP it will be a lot more. If someone starts working at 18 (assuming they dont go to uni or colledge) and stops at 65 they work 47 years. Adding 2 years to a typical persons time in workforce is adding over 4% of productivity throughtout their life 4% more in GDP is not insignificant 4% more GDP, 1% more tax revenue for those 2 additional years PLUS 1% of GDP less in spending Add ripple effects to this and really, its mroe significant than it might sound on the surface Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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