Warren Talks About TIHTY On BBC Radio 5 Live

[wahkeenasitka 1,995]

Here you guys go, you can go to the website and listen here: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p033kyyq

 

[giskardsb 12,565]

So according to some here all the gay people that have been killed by raging homophobes should have just avoided straight people and they'd be fine. Their own fault for putting themselves next to potential killers.  They should also have acted straight to avoid becoming a victim. 

[scorpion 409]

I don't consider the victim blamers in this thread true Lady Gaga fans, or really sound people of judgement more importantly. Take a long long look in the mirror folks. This thinking is a tragedy. Feel it, cope with it, and hopefully grow from it. 

[Katie14 4,828]

I never said rape can be expected and doesn't happen often. I certainly cannot guarantee or coach anyone and say "hey, if you follow my steps, you won't be the victim for sure." This was not the point of comment. I meant that you can REDUCE but not eliminate the possibility of you getting raped, by not going to certain places like nightclubs or parties, avoid people whom you don't know well or whom you are suspicious of.

Before you disregard half of my comment again, please take a look at the underline part I wrote.

Yes it is true that people can do things that lowers the possibility of being raped. The point is that people shoudlnt have to change their lifestyles to protect themselves. Rapists are going to find people to rape. If nobody put themselves in so called dangerous situations anymore then maybe going to the bathroom alone at work would then be the new dangerous situation. The standard of what is safe and what isnt would keep changing. The problem is that there are rapists, not that people go out and party. Saying that people need to avoid certain places is like putting a band aid on the problem but not actually fixing anything.

[PEXI 250]

It's 2015 and some people still want to blame the victim... 

 

A woman or a man could be in the middle of a bar, butt naked, legs open. If they do not openly consent or if they say no, then whoever forces s-xual contact with them is at fault. 

We shouldn't tell people to be careful what they wear or how much they drink. What we SHOULD do is tell people not to d--g, take advantage of, nor coerce people into having s-x. The idea that rape is anyone but the assailant's fault is disgusting. 

You asserted your point better than the rest of the people on here, by using a great example and defining what rape is. Blatant insult on others or continuously saying the same thing wouldn't make a change or contribute much to a debate. Kudos to you! 

[Bradley 59,023]

 

 

I don't consider the victim blamers in this thread true Lady Gaga fans, or really sound people of judgement more importantly. Take a long long look in the mirror folks. This thinking is a tragedy. Feel it, cope with it, and hopefully grow from it. 

@Whispering

Yes it is true that people can do things that lowers the possibility of being raped. The point is that people shoudlnt have to change their lifestyles to protect themselves. Rapists are going to find people to rape. If nobody put themselves in so called dangerous situations anymore then maybe going to the bathroom alone at work would then be the new dangerous situation. The standard of what is safe and what isnt would keep changing. The problem is that there are rapists, not that people go out and party. Saying that people need to avoid certain places is like putting a band aid on the problem but not actually fixing anything.

I actually totally agree with all of you here, that victims have a right to go wherever they want and not be fearful of potential rapists and becoming the victim of this tragic crime. This is definitely right and what the case should have been in a democratic society with order and law. In fact I have to say you guys have changed my opinion considerably and I am deeply sorry if I have made a point which might not exactly be the right one.

However, there are some things which I still cannot figure out, and I am here to sincerely have a civilized discussion trying to learn some thing, so I really hope I don't get any more angry (I was being thought as not a true Lady Gaga fan which is totally irrelevant to the discussion) or overly emotional replies because those aren't persuasive in any way but anger provoking, like Pex said, isn't contributing to the discussion.

What you suggested is an ideal situation: "BY RIGHT, the victims should have a right to...shouldn't be locked at home and do nothing..." I totally agree with this part. But the reality is that such crime is inevitable, at least as of current, and I was NOT blaming the victim in any way like how any of you claimed, in fact I sympathize them, I have made this point clear from my first comment in this thread but most of you just chose to disregard it and act like I didn't address this at all. I was giving a practical advice for everyone as to living in this reality, a reality where the ideal scenario is not achievable as of current. If I had a daughter, I'd tell her the exact same thing what I told you. In fact some of you are acting irrational and said that I excused the assailants which I never did at all, I mean if you want to have a civilized discussion you've got to learn to read arguments as a whole and not only absorb only partial of it.

How on earth is telling someone to protect themselves from danger wrong?

If anyone says I'm blaming the victim again you might as well just kill me.

I'd also like to tell @Katie14 I really appreciate the manner of your reply and you contributed the most to changing my opinion.

[Whispering 18,865]

So according to some here all the gay people that have been killed by raging homophobes should have just avoided straight people and they'd be fine. Their own fault for putting themselves next to potential killers.  They should also have acted straight to avoid becoming a victim. 

Interesting a--logy. We could take it down a notch to getting harassed or beat up by homophobes.

-If you don't want to get beat up or bullied, don't show that you are gay. Don't go to gay bars or walk hand in hand with your boyfriend. Don't tell people at work or school that you are gay or put it on social media...because then you are just "asking for it". Next time you are around a raging homophobe, he is going to target you and beat you up or harass you. Don't put yourself in a vulnerable situation by going to pride parades or gay bars or letting others know that you are gay...you have to be smart and protect yourself. Yes, the raging homophobe is wrong and is committing a crime, but gay people have to take some responsibility and blame for flaunting the fact that they are gay and for putting themselves in those situations. 

 

[2NE1LG 193]

Doing more promo than Gags herself I see...

She's been sitting by her windowsill waiting for the song to drop 

[Hamlet 67]

I can't believe that in 2015 people still blame the victim 

[Head Empty 25,071]

I just listened to the whole thing. Great listen . 

It's also great to listen to a radio show like this in general. The man's voice is so relaxing when you compare it to "regular" popular radio shows .

[Katie14 4,828]

@Whispering

I actually totally agree with all of you here, that victims have a right to go wherever they want and not be fearful of potential rapists and becoming the victim of this tragic crime. This is definitely right and what the case should have been in a democratic society with order and law. In fact I have to say you guys have changed my opinion considerably and I am deeply sorry if I have made a point which might not exactly be the right one.

However, there are some things which I still cannot figure out, and I am here to sincerely have a civilized discussion trying to learn some thing, so I really hope I don't get any more angry (I was being thought as not a true Lady Gaga fan which is totally irrelevant to the discussion) or overly emotional replies because those aren't persuasive in any way but anger provoking, like Pex said, isn't contributing to the discussion.

What you suggested is an ideal situation: "BY RIGHT, the victims should have a right to...shouldn't be locked at home and do nothing..." I totally agree with this part. But the reality is that such crime is inevitable, at least as of current, and I was NOT blaming the victim in any way like how any of you claimed, in fact I sympathize them, I have made this point clear from my first comment in this thread but most of you just chose to disregard it and act like I didn't address this at all. I was giving a practical advice for everyone as to living in this reality, a reality where the ideal scenario is not achievable as of current. If I had a daughter, I'd tell her the exact same thing what I told you. In fact some of you are acting irrational and said that I excused the assailants which I never did at all, I mean if you want to have a civilized discussion you've got to learn to read arguments as a whole and not only absorb only partial of it.

How on earth is telling someone to protect themselves from danger wrong?

If anyone says I'm blaming the victim again you might as well just kill me.

I'd also like to tell @Katie14 I really appreciate the manner of your reply and you contributed the most to changing my opinion.

It isn't wrong to tell someone to take steps to protect themselves against rapists, just like you would tell people you care about to shred documents with their social security number on it or lock your items up when you go to the gym. We cannot control other people and force them not to commit crimes. We only control ourselves and try to lower the risks of becoming a target.

When it comes to rape though, there seems to be this huge victim blaming climate. People are always saying things like, "she was asking for it with that outfit", "well you shouldn't have been out that late by yourself", ect. There is so much focus on protecting yourself, as there should be. But, what comes with that notion is this idea that victims should take responsibility for what happened. Since they were taught how to protect themselves, people think it must be their fault if something happens because they weren't being careful enough. It seems like there isn't much of a focus on actually preventing people from raping others.

I think in addition to self defense classes that people can take in college, there should be mandatory classes on what consent means and the mental and emotions repercussions that victims face. Basically, we need to change the climate of how people feel about rape and focus more on preventing rapists from raping instead of only teaching people how to protect themselves.

Here is another example; Lets say you have to take a class with this really awful teacher. She doesn't explain concepts very well and you basically will have to learn everything yourself from your textbook. Your adviser warns you that you will have to study way more than you normally would for this class in order to do well. Now, lets say you ignore this advice and don't take the extra steps to do well in this class. You study the same amount you would for any other class and you typically get As and Bs. By the time your D rolls around at the end of the year, everyone is now blaming you because, "we warned you about her". Is that really fair though? Wouldn't it have made more sense to get to the root of the problem, the crappy teacher?  Instead of teaching students how to compensate for the lack of a proper education, they should have reported the teacher and gotten her fired. But because nobody took efforts to get rid of the bad teacher, the only people to blame are themselves or the students. This is the wrong way to look at the situation.

[scorpion 409]

I find it a little silly people think how or what I said wasn't necessary. I'm not here to change minds. That's very ineffective. I am not here to change YOUR mind , or character for that matter. That's a losing battle . It's about awareness, and I will be damned if that message is lost on a Lady Gaga forum.

[Emvee 8,350]

The dragging in the thread :popcorn: 

AmericanHSlave's logic deserves the backlash to be quite frank. Lol 

[aaronyoji 2,054]

TBH I hate parties, I could live my life without them, and one of the reasons I skip them it's because of that... however I do feel like victims are also in need of discipline... It's easy to prevent that stuff from happening if you take precations.

women should be able to drink and have fun like everyone else without worrying if she'll end up rufied on someones pull out couch the next morning, i think theyre owed that much at least?????

[BitcherelIa 265]

Well I think that people here think way on the extremes... on HEALTHY cases, people that aren't raped, killed or something like that, they can PREVENT things from happening...

Anyway this is my humble opinion and yours is yours... just avoid putting stuff in my mouth that I didn't say like ALL VICTIMS ARE TO BLAME... what I truly mean is that people deserve to know that if they consciously go to the place of an abuser, they will most probably be abused!