Why I Don't Like ARTPOP

[Kayla 7,595]

I do see where you're coming from.  However, we all need to remember that Gaga is human.  If she is constantly taking a battering from critics, the media, etc., it's going to seep into her creativity and her work.  I however, think she channeled it marvelously in the example of Do What U Want and the SNL "old gaga" sketch. 

 

Also, did you ever stop to consider that the reason Gaga was so fearless with Born This Way because she was untouchable during her previous era?  Gaga was on top of the world post-TFM, and she knew it, and she used that power to do whatever the hell she wanted with BTW.  She was not in that position coming into and throughout ARTPOP.

 

We all like to imagine that Gaga is this impregnable bastion of creativity, but she is also a pop star and public figure, which makes her extra vulnerable to criticism from society. 

 

All great points. 

 

I think it's good to remember that Gaga has a long career ahead of her, and it's okay if she does things differently. The way she's addressing things with this album, responding to critics and breaking that fourth wall, might not be something she does next album. It's good for her to dip her feet in a variety of methods, and nothing is truly permanent. 

[Donatello 129]

But why would they fake a hip surgery? What would be the motivation? Why would they do it with just one month left of touring? Why would any management deliberately squander so much money?

 

I haven't read any conspiracy theories on the hip. My belief on the hip surgery is more of a feeling   

 

Anyway, there isn't a crumb of info out there for me to build a case, Gaga's smart like that. But I've followed this entire era and watched every interview, and every time the hip thing has come up, I've felt like what she says is very limited and the facts are scripted.

 

Also, her post-BTWB blackout was unprecedented, she literally stayed off social media for months. I feel like she couldn't bring herself to face the fans, for whatever BTS stuff was going on. And as we know, the only reason the blackout ended was because Troy pushed her out of it. In the Applause countdown, where she had that first selfie in months with 9 fingers up, she looked really reluctant/depressed and like someone was telling her to do it. Similarly, towards the end of BTWB, she seemed really fed up in performances and not into it at all. 

 

I think about it this way: if she actually had hip surgery, she would've interacted with fans, say she's okay, maybe show an x-ray, etc. It's the only natural thing for someone to do who spent 5 years regularly on social media. She went out of her way to not do that.

 

If I had to guess a motivation: Gaga was sick of BTW and just wanted to stay in bed, so she exaggerated the hip issue at Montreal as a scapegoat. She's only human, we all get tired, she worked her ass off 24/7 for so many years, I have nothing against her and view her work no differently.

[Ladey Gagz 2,512]

Well that's your opinion and that's fine Nobody will like EVERYTHING Gaga does And this just happens that you didn't like this era I think we can all agree that Gaga has changed from BTW to ARTPOP and maybe you just don't like it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm in love with it though

[Tokyo Rose 1,475]

Also, her post-BTWB blackout was unprecedented, she literally stayed off social media for months. I feel like she couldn't bring herself to face the fans, for whatever BTS stuff was going on. And as we know, the only reason the blackout ended was because Troy pushed her out of it. In the Applause countdown, where she had that first selfie in months with 9 fingers up, she looked really reluctant/depressed and like someone was telling her to do it. Similarly, towards the end of BTWB, she seemed really fed up in performances and not into it at all. 

 

I think about it this way: if she actually had hip surgery, she would've interacted with fans, say she's okay, maybe show an x-ray, etc. It's the only natural thing for someone to do who spent 5 years regularly on social media. She went out of her way to not do that.

 

If I had to guess a motivation: Gaga was sick of BTW and just wanted to stay in bed, so she exaggerated the hip issue at Montreal as a scapegoat. She's only human, we all get tired, she worked her ass off 24/7 for so many years, I have nothing against her and view her work no differently.

 

What you've said in this thread has very little to do with my original post.

 

Questioning the validity of her injury is absolutely ridiculous. She has been pushing her body to the limits non-stop for years.

 

You clearly have no idea how grueling it has been for her.

 

You've basically called everything she has said a lie. Sick of Born This Way? You don't think she was devastated when that tour ended? That tour was everything to her. 

 

I don't think you actually saw BTWball, because you don't seem to know much about it,

[XoXoJoanneGaga 629]

I haven't read any conspiracy theories on the hip. My belief on the hip surgery is more of a feeling   

 

Anyway, there isn't a crumb of info out there for me to build a case, Gaga's smart like that. But I've followed this entire era and watched every interview, and every time the hip thing has come up, I've felt like what she says is very limited and the facts are scripted.

 

Also, her post-BTWB blackout was unprecedented, she literally stayed off social media for months. I feel like she couldn't bring herself to face the fans, for whatever BTS stuff was going on. And as we know, the only reason the blackout ended was because Troy pushed her out of it. In the Applause countdown, where she had that first selfie in months with 9 fingers up, she looked really reluctant/depressed and like someone was telling her to do it. Similarly, towards the end of BTWB, she seemed really fed up in performances and not into it at all. 

 

I think about it this way: if she actually had hip surgery, she would've interacted with fans, say she's okay, maybe show an x-ray, etc. It's the only natural thing for someone to do who spent 5 years regularly on social media. She went out of her way to not do that.

 

If I had to guess a motivation: Gaga was sick of BTW and just wanted to stay in bed, so she exaggerated the hip issue at Montreal as a scapegoat. She's only human, we all get tired, she worked her ass off 24/7 for so many years, I have nothing against her and view her work no differently.

No way, so much money was lost by her cancelling the tour dates, they would never let her do that just to stay in bed, and if that was what happened the info would've gotten out. With all the **** that leaks from Gaga's camp, you'd think something that career-devastating would've leaked immediately 

[Jenniferella 2,774]

I haven't read any conspiracy theories on the hip. My belief on the hip surgery is more of a feeling   

 

Anyway, there isn't a crumb of info out there for me to build a case, Gaga's smart like that. But I've followed this entire era and watched every interview, and every time the hip thing has come up, I've felt like what she says is very limited and the facts are scripted.

 

Also, her post-BTWB blackout was unprecedented, she literally stayed off social media for months. I feel like she couldn't bring herself to face the fans, for whatever BTS stuff was going on. And as we know, the only reason the blackout ended was because Troy pushed her out of it. In the Applause countdown, where she had that first selfie in months with 9 fingers up, she looked really reluctant/depressed and like someone was telling her to do it. Similarly, towards the end of BTWB, she seemed really fed up in performances and not into it at all. 

 

I think about it this way: if she actually had hip surgery, she would've interacted with fans, say she's okay, maybe show an x-ray, etc. It's the only natural thing for someone to do who spent 5 years regularly on social media. She went out of her way to not do that.

 

If I had to guess a motivation: Gaga was sick of BTW and just wanted to stay in bed, so she exaggerated the hip issue at Montreal as a scapegoat. She's only human, we all get tired, she worked her ass off 24/7 for so many years, I have nothing against her and view her work no differently.

I have read every post of yours in this thread and I truly feel the same way about the whole thing

[Chiunzhan 997]

STOP THE DRAMA, START THE MUSIC

[Tokyo Rose 1,475]

STOP THE DRAMA, START THE MUSIC

 

I agree

 

[Slayer 9,227]

I haven't read any conspiracy theories on the hip. My belief on the hip surgery is more of a feeling   

 

Anyway, there isn't a crumb of info out there for me to build a case, Gaga's smart like that. But I've followed this entire era and watched every interview, and every time the hip thing has come up, I've felt like what she says is very limited and the facts are scripted.

 

Also, her post-BTWB blackout was unprecedented, she literally stayed off social media for months. I feel like she couldn't bring herself to face the fans, for whatever BTS stuff was going on. And as we know, the only reason the blackout ended was because Troy pushed her out of it. In the Applause countdown, where she had that first selfie in months with 9 fingers up, she looked really reluctant/depressed and like someone was telling her to do it. Similarly, towards the end of BTWB, she seemed really fed up in performances and not into it at all. 

 

I think about it this way: if she actually had hip surgery, she would've interacted with fans, say she's okay, maybe show an x-ray, etc. It's the only natural thing for someone to do who spent 5 years regularly on social media. She went out of her way to not do that.

 

If I had to guess a motivation: Gaga was sick of BTW and just wanted to stay in bed, so she exaggerated the hip issue at Montreal as a scapegoat. She's only human, we all get tired, she worked her ass off 24/7 for so many years, I have nothing against her and view her work no differently.

 

In fairness to her, she did give an apology post-surgery and explained her situation and thanked her fans for standing by her. I think her blackout was just a result of feeling guilty and very depressed. She was incapacitated for months, which, for a such a career-driven, active person like her, must have had a HUGE effect on her mentality. 

 

I just don't think Gaga is the kind of person who would want to stay in bed because she was bored with performing on tour.Not to mention that Gaga and her team lost out on millions because of the shows that weren't performed. I'm sorry, it just makes zero sense to me that she'd fake an injury.

 

However, I agree she has definitely changed in the past year or so. She seems sadder, weaker, vulnerable and damaged. I hope she's feeling a bit stronger with a good manager by her side. I think a lot of her depression in the past year came from being mismanaged and pushed too far. 

[Willy Wonka 4]

I'm sorry you're getting so much hate and so many attacks. I thought you articulated yourself really respectfully and maturely and gave a good amount of examples.

 

About the first point- I agree to some extent. The fan involvement doesn't bother me so much. I think it's cool that fans were submitted costume designs and films and stuff. I don't interpret that as her being sculpted or moulded or anything. To me, being sculpted implies some sort of force, like she didn't invite the fans to participate. To me, I saw her fan involvement stuff as nothing but attempts to encourage creativity amongst her fans, and I think that's great.

But I DO see her being sculpted in other ways- it seems to me during this era that she's been in a constant tug-of-war between being a conventional pop star/celebrity (her SNL appearance, GMA, Muppets Holiday Spectacular, The Voice, VMAs, ELLE cover, her more conventional clothing, etc.) and being an experimental performance artist (SXSW, ArtRave, Volantis, Abramovic video, that terrifying huge white wig, etc.). In the past, it feels like she has always straddled the line between pop star and performance artist, and now I feel like she thinks she can only be one at a time, so the middle ground has been lost. The G.U.Y. video seemed to be back in the middle, so that's promising though.

 

About the second point- Yes. That is what is bothering me the most. She always has been the biggest advocate for believing in yourself and she has had some of my FAVORITE quotes ever about being strong and independent and self-assured, and it seems like she is letting everything that everyone has ever said get to her. It just doesn't seem like she believes in herself anymore and that is what is making me the saddest.

[Donatello 129]

I have read every post of yours in this thread and I truly feel the same way about the whole thing

Glad I'm not alone!

You clearly have no idea how grueling it has been for her.

 Actually, however gruelling you think it was, I think it was 100x that, which is precisely why I would guess she wanted a break from it all. Having worked in physically challenging jobs I can sympathise with anyone who feels exhausted and wants a long holiday. I think it's widely underestimated how difficult the runway AND the castle levels were to run around for 2hrs+. The Monster Ball was a LOT easier to navigate, not nearly that challenging.

 

I'm willing to bet the artRave will be a progression from stage to most outer catwalk with no back-and-forth except for the encore, as a lesson from BTWB. I believe Gaga has even said that costume and wig changes will be done ON stage, hence eliminating the back-and-forth motion.

Also, if Gaga wasn't sick of BTW, why didn't she just postpone BTWB for later dates?

 

In fairness to her, she did give an apology post-surgery and explained her situation and thanked her fans for standing by her.

I personally found those tweets very pedestrian and quick, as if written by her team. "In and out"-esque as if just to get it done before more months of nothing. Twitter was inappropriate, Youtube ideal. She can make a quick video update about her glowing wig, but not her situation?

She was incapacitated for months, which, for a such a career-driven, active person like her, must have had a HUGE effect on her mentality.

 Obviously Jessie J is not the same, but after breaking her ankle (or foot iirc) she still made her festival appearances in a throne, singing seated. She's not nearly as career driven yet was able to compromise. Did Gaga's blackout negatively impact her mentality? She always highly praises the time she had to look over ARTPOP and certain things. I'm sure she missed her fans, but it's as if this break was a necessity to her art. She recently said "Like TF and TFM, I had lots of time to write for this record [ARTPOP]", which I found to imply BTW was rushed or she wasn't completely happy with the results in some way.

Not to mention that Gaga and her team lost out on millions because of the shows that weren't performed. I'm sorry, it just makes zero sense to me that she'd fake an injury.

Not if the insurance paid.

 

I'm not 100% certain if it's fake. All I know is that Gaga is capable of dishonesty like the rest of us, and to think she's some supreme truthful being is flawed.

[shaneybaby 450]

Well, no offense, but this thread is more geared towards people who can have a respectful and open discussion without resorting to saying petty things like "I don't like you"

 

You don't know me, and you never will know me. Telling me you "don't like me" is irrelevant and it's just meant to be hurtful. 

i was joking... thats what the face is for...   calm down 

[Tokyo Rose 1,475]

i was joking... thats what the face is for...   calm down 

 

Oh, now you were "joking" 

 

At any rate, as you can see this has been a very intense thread, but I am calm. You coming in at the middle of things to say "I don't like you" was unnecessary

[shaneybaby 450]

Oh, now you were "joking" 

 

At any rate, as you can see this has been a very intense thread, but I am calm. You coming in at the middle of things to say "I don't like you" was unnecessary

lol i was joking initially but someones a little uptight... these threads are not life or death  ;)

[Creyk 17,805]

It all comes down to there being something fundamentally different and off about Gaga. I've been very suspicious of her this era. I think there's a lot about the post-BTWB blackout that we don't know, including things that Gaga is guilty of herself. Unpopular opinion alert: I do think the hip surgery was fake.

 

I look back at TF-BTW music videos, monstervisions, interviews and there's thing about Gaga which I just can't explain. She's just fierce honest and knows exactly what she wants and more. This era she's seemed different. I can't explain it. She's just not the same.

 

There are definitely 2 factors in play which affect her work:

 

1) MONEY. She can afford to be careless, she now hasn't got that sense of urgency and desperation to 'make it', that survival instinct. Her best tour - TMB - was the product of lots of hard work to pay off a massive debt. Money also affects her team - she can afford to keep amateurs around.

 

2) LAZINESS. She's achieved her dream and more, selling out stadiums. Any person would be slightly more laid back and less motivated to keep the engine burning. It's fun the first time, then it becomes routine.

 

I remember thinking the exact same thing so many times the first few months of this era.

She has lost her drive, that's how I put it for myself. She became a lot more insecure.