ARTPOP is actually about identity

[loveandpeace 2,571]

ARTPOP could mean anything

[imogen2133 793]

21 hours ago, SavetheEarthNow said:

The thing I still don't understand to this day as someone who was absolutely present during the ARTPOP lead up and release is how things switched so suddenly. There was the massive lead up to the release of ARTPOP, the announcement and promo for the ARTPOP app, massive excitement leading up to Applause, Aura leaked creating massive hype, there was the countdown to Applause on Twitter, the debut of the song, the debut of the music video, the debut performance, it was massive excitement, massive popularity. Gaga was at the top of her game, she continued riding a massive wave of success, huge for it being her 4th album. 

Then Do What U Want was previewed, there was enormous hype about how good it was, everyone loved the track, so much so that Venus was shelved as a single to instead push Do What U Want as the second single. Then a few days later, Venus was released as another preview/promo single, again everyone loved it. 

Then Gaga posted lyrics to DOPE, some people expressed concern about the lyrics she posted, because they seemed a bit dark, but the song came out and people loved it. 

The album came out in November, to rather positive reactions from Monsters. We loved the music. We loved the iTunes festival performance. 

We also got new photoshoots for magazines like V, Elle, Glamour. The Glamour cover came out December 2013, things were still going good publicly. 

All of the positivity outweighed the few negative critic reviews of the music up to that point. 

Also in December, Do What U Want was scrapped because Gaga was not happy about only being given a week or so to come up with concept for the video and to film it. 

Then there was a bit of silence, still no release of the Do What U Want video, nothing further about Venus as a single or it's music video. Then in March, the G.U.Y. music video, which again Monsters loved. 

Looking back, I'm really not remembering negative responses about ARTPOP. (I'm also taking into account everything that led up to ARTPOP, what was going on behind the scenes, issues Gaga was going through, etc.) 

Can someone explain when there was the alleged negativity surrounding the album and music? 

 

 

This is also how I look back on the era also, I didn't see much negativity at the time outside of critics trying to take Gaga down and pitting her against Katy with the whole Roar VS Applause thing. I loved the era we got personally with the performances, videos (not just MVs) all of Gaga's tweets from that time and the interviews as well, it was her at her most artistic and her showing her real capabilities as a performance artist and I know that some things did not come to fruition due to the issues with her management but I still think Gaga pulled through and gave us a good era and stuck to her guns at the time even with everything going on around that time. Also where was it confirmed that she only had a week to come up with the concept and film the DWUW video? (From what I have seen of it it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case tbh)

Edited 5 hours ago by imogen2133

[imogen2133 793]

Also something that still doesn't make sense to me is that people complain about and criticize ARTPOP for seemingly lacking a concept or having a concept that it does not fit into but people never really criticize Mayhem for lacking a concept (in terms of lyrics) even if she was not trying to fit Mayhem into a concept like she was with ARTPOP I still think it is unfair for people to criticize ARTPOP for it's lack of concept but not Mayhem. 

[gagzus 27,034]

29 minutes ago, imogen2133 said:

Also something that still doesn't make sense to me is that people complain about and criticize ARTPOP for seemingly lacking a concept or having a concept that it does not fit into but people never really criticize Mayhem for lacking a concept (in terms of lyrics) even if she was not trying to fit Mayhem into a concept like she was with ARTPOP I still think it is unfair for people to criticize ARTPOP for it's lack of concept but not Mayhem. 

I think the difference is ARTPOP had 2-3 concepts, some told to fans before the album came out and then the marketing for the album and how she described it made no sense because what even do you MEAN by art in front of pop? And how does the music tell that story?  Imo because people got so used to her having “themes” for albums she felt like she had to have a theme—even into Joanne she still seemed to do that and she made music that revolves around a theme or a sound (which she herself said in interviews for Mayhem about her old music.)

Mayhem she’s kept it simple; it’s about her internal chaos and the music reflects that because no two songs sound the same or even follow the same “sound” and she even said she in fact WAS going to do exactly what she used to and force everything to sound like Perfect Celebrity (and presumably Can’t Stop The High) and the only other thing she’s ever said—because fans draw the conclusion, is it’s a send up of her first 3 albums in one. 

ARTPOP’s concept doesn’t match the music or her description of it, Mayhem’s does. Because she found a common theme from the songs she made for Mayhem, and not the other way around like she did with ARTPOP (and Joanne too kind of)

Edited 7 hours ago by gagzus

[imogen2133 793]

1 hour ago, gagzus said:

I think the difference is ARTPOP had 2-3 concepts, some told to fans before the album came out and then the marketing for the album and how she described it made no sense because what even do you MEAN by art in front of pop? And how does the music tell that story?  Imo because people got so used to her having “themes” for albums she felt like she had to have a theme—even into Joanne she still seemed to do that and she made music that revolves around a theme or a sound (which she herself said in interviews for Mayhem about her old music.)

Mayhem she’s kept it simple; it’s about her internal chaos and the music reflects that because no two songs sound the same or even follow the same “sound” and she even said she in fact WAS going to do exactly what she used to and force everything to sound like Perfect Celebrity (and presumably Can’t Stop The High) and the only other thing she’s ever said—because fans draw the conclusion, is it’s a send up of her first 3 albums in one. 

ARTPOP’s concept doesn’t match the music or her description of it, Mayhem’s does. Because she found a common theme from the songs she made for Mayhem, and not the other way around like she did with ARTPOP (and Joanne too kind of)

Well I don't necessarily think that ARTPOP had that many concepts I know she mentioned the whole princess high thing and the ideas of the death of the celebrity (in 2011 mostly) but I think by late 2012 the concept or sound of ARTPOP started to become more coherent (especially because a lot of songs were created in 2012 that made it to the album) I agree that the concept she gave in interviews about reversing Warhol's idea and putting art into pop music was not very representative of the album lyrically overall but I don't think she had an original concept that was suddenly changed and we got like an ARTPOP 2.0 instead of 1.0 (like with what happened with Joanne and OG LG5). Also I have seen some of the interviews from the Mayhem era where she did try to give a concept for the album like a long night out partying or a series of gothic dreams that I don't think the songs fit into so I don't think it is fair to say that she never had a concept for Mayhem lyrically either (even though she did sonically).

Edited 5 hours ago by imogen2133

[Killa 18,978]

I love your analysis but i don't think She was conditioned by any concept with the songs nor She tried hard tò connect the dots with the songs She had on hand

[gagzus 27,034]

35 minutes ago, imogen2133 said:

Well I don't necessarily think that ARTPOP had that many concepts I know she mentioned the whole princes high thing and the ideas of the death of the celebrity (in 2011 mostly) but I think by late 2012 the concept or sound of ARTPOP started to become more coherent (especially because a lot of songs were created in 2012 that made it to the album) I agree that the concept she gave in interviews about reversing Warhol's idea and putting art into pop music was not very representative of the album lyrically overall but I don't think she had an original concept that was suddenly changed and we got like a ARTPOP 2.0 instead of 1.0 (like with what happened with Joanne and OG LG5). Also I have seen some of the interviews from the Mayhem era where she did try to give a concept for the album like a long night out partying or a series of gothic dreams that I don't think the songs fit into so I don't think it is fair to say that she never had a concept for Mayhem lyrically either (even though she did sonically).

Conceptually, the music she wrote in 2011/early 2012 was described as the “decay of the blonde superstar” which she mentioned as far back as the 60 Minutes interview airing in Jan/Feb 2011 (that interview also was originally recorded in August 2010 roughly based on where she was on tour and Val Garland’s account of them testing out the album makeup idea) and we know Princess Die was written during TEOG/You&I era because she played it for Tony when they recorded TLIAT from TLATL documentary.
 

Then she first mentioned the “Disney princess in a rave” idea during the BTWB in a video showing off the fibre optic wig in LittleMonsters.com which was mid 2012. This is the time where she was recording most of the sex & partying music from the album, when they considered MANiCURE as the lead single originally. 

Then after her hip injury is when the art in front of Pop concept took hold and she wrote and recorded music like Swine, IWBWY/Dope. You can also tell which era she was in by the demo vocals, all those made during the “Disney Princess” era have high almost falsetto vocals on their demos. 

I think most of the music was made during the Disney Princess in a rave idea but for copyright she couldn’t do it. I think she could 100% do it now in 2026 and Disney would be thankful for the press. But back then it was absolutely a no-no. 

As for every era, yeah she says multiple things for each era but there’s always one that sticks as the “mission statement” and ARTPOP’s was the “reverse Warhol” idea and that absolutely doesnt come through in the music whatsoever. If she has made an actually fully experimental and left field production album and lyrics WITH pop melodies (sort of a pre cursor to HYPERPOP) it would’ve worked better I think. Aura, MJH and ARTPOP are the closest she ever came to that imo.

[gagzus 27,034]

9 minutes ago, Killa said:

I love your analysis but i don't think She was conditioned by any concept with the songs nor She tried hard tò connect the dots with the songs She had on hand

I disagree because I don’t see how songs about sex, r*pe PTSD, Donatella Versace and her fans link back to the concept she proposes for the album. It all fits my idea far better imo. Even the unreleased demos and music ideas sound like they fit the theme I proposed much better. Like I said in the reply above; had she made experimental and artistic sounding songs with lyrics with a  catchy as hell pop melody she probably would be CLOSER to the idea she talks about. But only Aura, MJH and ARTPOP the song really come close. And even then not perfectly, they still very much match my interpretation (as does the older music demos like I said.) better I find.

I should also say, I’m not sh*tting on ARTPOP  I love the album. But I think she should very much keep it on her moodboard as an example of how NOT to market her music. I would very much like her to revisit one of the two original concepts she talked about at some point and translate it into new music with her new perception.

[Killa 18,978]

26 minutes ago, gagzus said:

I disagree because I don’t see how songs about sex, r*pe PTSD, Donatella Versace and her fans link back to the concept she proposes for the album. It all fits my idea far better imo. Even the unreleased demos and music ideas sound like they fit the theme I proposed much better. Like I said in the reply above; had she made experimental and artistic sounding songs with lyrics with a  catchy as hell pop melody she probably would be CLOSER to the idea she talks about. But only Aura, MJH and ARTPOP the song really come close. And even then not perfectly, they still very much match my interpretation (as does the older music demos like I said.) better I find.

I should also say, I’m not sh*tting on ARTPOP  I love the album. But I think she should very much keep it on her moodboard as an example of how NOT to market her music. I would very much like her to revisit one of the two original concepts she talked about at some point and translate it into new music with her new perception.

Just Read the statment above which i can fully agree. maybe i didn't get the op lol. 

[gagzus 27,034]

11 minutes ago, Killa said:

Just Read the statment above which i can fully agree. maybe i didn't get the op lol. 

That’s ok no worries haha Basically I believe she had an idea and it kept changing so she sort of boxed the music in and in the end she didn’t have enough time to make more music for the new theme so she just sort of slapped it on as a tagline.

But my OP is more about a concept I think would’ve fit for her to market it as in a more simple way.

[imogen2133 793]

1 hour ago, gagzus said:

Conceptually, the music she wrote in 2011/early 2012 was described as the “decay of the blonde superstar” which she mentioned as far back as the 60 Minutes interview airing in Jan/Feb 2011 (that interview also was originally recorded in August 2010 roughly based on where she was on tour and Val Garland’s account of them testing out the album makeup idea) and we know Princess Die was written during TEOG/You&I era because she played it for Tony when they recorded TLIAT from TLATL documentary.
 

Then she first mentioned the “Disney princess in a rave” idea during the BTWB in a video showing off the fibre optic wig in LittleMonsters.com which was mid 2012. This is the time where she was recording most of the sex & partying music from the album, when they considered MANiCURE as the lead single originally. 

Then after her hip injury is when the art in front of Pop concept took hold and she wrote and recorded music like Swine, IWBWY/Dope. You can also tell which era she was in by the demo vocals, all those made during the “Disney Princess” era have high almost falsetto vocals on their demos. 

I think most of the music was made during the Disney Princess in a rave idea but for copyright she couldn’t do it. I think she could 100% do it now in 2026 and Disney would be thankful for the press. But back then it was absolutely a no-no. 

As for every era, yeah she says multiple things for each era but there’s always one that sticks as the “mission statement” and ARTPOP’s was the “reverse Warhol” idea and that absolutely doesnt come through in the music whatsoever. If she has made an actually fully experimental and left field production album and lyrics WITH pop melodies (sort of a pre cursor to HYPERPOP) it would’ve worked better I think. Aura, MJH and ARTPOP are the closest she ever came to that imo.

Well I guess it is hard to say for sure either way if she definitely had the "death of the celebrity" idea as the entire concept for ARTPOP because she really only explored that on Princess Die and the "Princess High" idea was really only present on MJH and Stache and she mentioned it a lot during 2012 and during the BTWB yes but saying these are full fledged concepts that the album was going to be (even with the og MANiCURE video/demo) seems like a bit of a stretch tbh. I think what happened is that she came up with the name ARTPOP in 2011 shortly after BTW came out (which we know because of the tattoo) and then she came up with songs naturally and flirted with different concepts like the princess high/death of the celebrity ones until she came up with the "putting art into pop" one. Plus the idea of exploring "death of the celebrity" was something she already explored through DITD and he 2009 VMAS performance so it is not like she came up with it as a whole idea for the album, also we must remember she was not allowed to use Princess Die on the album due to label pressure and because Gaga said she could do better so I assume any starting "concept changed after that" and another song from around this time (Partynauseous) was about the conflict with Indonesia so that had nothing to do with the og concept either. I think also that each album came out of the last one organically as well like TFM came after her experiencing her first round of fame and her troubles on the road during TFB, then BTW came out of the MBT and fans stories and then ARTPOP was (in Gaga's words) about inspiring her fans to be creative and paint and draw after the feel empowered from listening to BTW as well (more so through the music but still it was a natural evolution). Also yes there were clearly songs inspired by her hip injury/the pressures from her label (Gypsy,IWBWY,Dope, Applause, ARTPOP) but some of those happened in 2012 as well quite early on in the process like ARTPOP and Gypsy so those were not made as a concept change either. Point being I agree that the album did not really fit the whole "reverse Warholian/art in pop music idea" lyrically but I also don't think that she had a full fledged concept/idea that was changed half way through that changed the whole album either.