Helxig 45,383 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 15 hours ago, Leoooo said: When we lose our humanity over politics, the game might aswell be over Did the world cry when Hitler was killed? Do we cry for the villain at the end of the movie when the hero kills them before they destroy the planet? No. We celebrate when evil is defeated. It's only ethical to be relieved about someone's passing if they have dedicated their lives to destroying the lives of others and actively made the world a much worse place and incited the suffering of many I'll be myself until they fūcking close the coffin. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMonster 15,025 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 13 minutes ago, Helxig said: Did the world cry when Hitler was killed? Do we cry for the villain at the end of the movie when the hero kills them before they destroy the planet? No. We celebrate when evil is defeated. It's only ethical to be relieved about someone's passing if they have dedicated their lives to destroying the lives of others and actively made the world a much worse place and incited the suffering of many Do you even know who Ann Widdecombe is? You cannot seriously be comparing her to Hitler and suggesting she dedicated her life to destroying the lives of others. subtext / fantasy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMonster 15,025 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 35 minutes ago, onTheBrink said: Pretty self-explanatory Is it? Something to consider: if you want to be part of bringing about a world that feels more aligned to your beliefs and views, you need to play a part in changing the minds of those currently in opposition to them. That is how change is brought about: by changing minds. You will not change any minds if you are so inflexible towards other view points that you celebrate the death of those who hold them. Hatred is never going to bring about the change you would like to see. It is just going to entrench opposing views and lead to more division and less consensus. subtext / fantasy 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nATAH 57,060 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, OMonster said: Genuinely disgusted by the OP and following comments. Ann Widdecombe was a 78-year-old woman murdered in her own home. How anyone thinks it is appropriate to celebrate that is beyond me. Doing so demonstrates an extreme level of intolerance and hatred, which is the same behaviour you levy at Ann. fyi the news she was murdered came hours after the death nobody is celebrating murder, just her finally being rid of this world mother, what must i do? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nATAH 57,060 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 also rip to my thread title, you will be missed mother, what must i do? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onTheBrink 1,349 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 minute ago, OMonster said: Is it? Something to consider: if you want to be part of bringing about a world that feels more aligned to your beliefs and views, you need to play a part in changing the minds of those currently in opposition to them. That is how change is brought about: by changing minds. You will not change any minds if you are so inflexible towards other view points that you celebrate the death of those who hold them. Hatred is never going to bring about the change you would like to see. It is just going to entrench opposing views and lead to more division and less consensus. I mean I've already said I'm not celebrating her death? It would be great if LGBTQ felt empowered enough to actually make those changes you suggest but rn they don't because they sacrifice their needs and self-worth in the process of babying other people's homophobia 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMonster 15,025 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Just now, nATAH said: fyi the news she was murdered came hours after the death nobody is celebrating murder, just her finally being rid of this world This doesn't justify the title or the comments you and others have been sharing. The title was inappropriate at the outset and even more inappropriate once the news did break. You should've changed it without the mods having to do so. subtext / fantasy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decodekid 30,731 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 15 minutes ago, nATAH said: also rip to my thread title, you will be missed I literally thought someone else had died when i opened GGD just now hi 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CautiousLurker 19,709 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, Leoooo said: I wouldnt say that's what i'm implying at all, though I would argue that meeting people you believe are hateful where they are at IS making you more hateful by proxy. Every way I want to word my thoughts would just be taken as 'choose love guys ' or 'The far right arnt that bad ' when neither is my stance here. I give grace to older, religious generations for believing what they know to be true and people who just dont know enough yet, we're all human and have a right to exist and share how we feel, people who completely oppose my world-view are not worthy of death in my eyes so it's hard for me to grasp how normal that way of thinking is our community. But, like I said, *I cant blame you guys for that* That is the implication - you said in pursuit to love freely we became more capable of hate - I guess you're nitpicking the fact I said hateful instead of capable of hate? Not a particularly meaningful difference, but fine, I still disagree - I think it's an outlandish claim whichever way you spin it. I'm glad you're in the position where you can give that grace, I'm not in that position because there are currently a lot of powerful people working to diminish my rights and my experience of life as a whole - retaliating against that is only 'hateful by proxy' if you srtip all nuance. People in our community celebrate deah of people such as Ann not just because those people had a different worldview - they used their power and their voice to make our lives more difficult and more dangerous, knowing very well that was going to be the outcome. Most conservatives understand at least on some level their worldview is false and harmful to some, with more extreme contingent blatantly flaunting the fact they make up their own relaity - believing you're giving graces to people who simply 'believe what they know' is naive, and potentially dangerous, it obscures the fact they actively chose the way they behave. It's a joke! When you give me that look, it's a joke! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nATAH 57,060 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 22 minutes ago, OMonster said: This doesn't justify the title or the comments you and others have been sharing. The title was inappropriate at the outset and even more inappropriate once the news did break. You should've changed it without the mods having to do so. nah, she made her bed if she wanted respect from me, she should have respect queer people when she was alive mother, what must i do? 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nATAH 57,060 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 (edited) I can just see the people here when trump dies preaching to treat him with respect and kindness if you think my attitude to ann is rancid, wait till the orange lump passes Edited July 11 by nATAH mother, what must i do? 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladle Ghoulash 53,287 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 46 minutes ago, OMonster said: you need to play a part in changing the minds of those currently in opposition to them I generally agree that changing minds matters and is something people on the broader left don’t engage in enough, at the same time, this is a forum of like-minded and largely queer people. Whether people should be celebrating someone’s death is a separate discussion (I tend to interpret many of the comments people make here as more glib than deathly serious, so it doesn’t bother me too much), but I don’t think conversations in a niche fan forum are meaningfully influencing electoral politics or cultural discourse more broadly, so framing them as though they require strategic political messaging feels disproportionate. We have forgotten our public MANNERS 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMonster 15,025 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 22 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said: I generally agree that changing minds matters and is something people on the broader left don’t engage in enough, at the same time, this is a forum of like-minded and largely queer people. Whether people should be celebrating someone’s death is a separate discussion (I tend to interpret many of the comments people make here as more glib than deathly serious, so it doesn’t bother me too much), but I don’t think conversations in a niche fan forum are meaningfully influencing electoral politics or cultural discourse more broadly, so framing them as though they require strategic political messaging feels disproportionate. Yes, fair enough actually and very true. Clearly GGD posts aren't intended to be politically influential - but they are indicative of a perspective and approach that I would argue holds progress back. Chats between likeminded people in a niche community aren't in and of themselves harmful but I think challenging them is still valuable (depending on your view) because opposition 'from within' can be useful and sometimes better received (though I accept that isn't happening here). Appreciate your perspective. subtext / fantasy 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
princedeeblebleble 3,650 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 44 minutes ago, OMonster said: This doesn't justify the title or the comments you and others have been sharing. The title was inappropriate at the outset and even more inappropriate once the news did break. You should've changed it without the mods having to do so. Respect and kindness are must when the person is good or neutral at least, but if you're actively trying to make peoples life worse and share hate, you do not deserve respect in life nor death. 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSine 6,911 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 18 minutes ago, princedeeblebleble said: Respect and kindness are must when the person is good or neutral at least, but if you're actively trying to make peoples life worse and share hate, you do not deserve respect in life nor death. Yeah, I agree with this. Honestly, you don't have to respect someone who had ill intentions just because they died, but the least people could do is show more restraint. Not in the "oh no...rest in peace. Thoughts and prayers!" way, but you can still debate and fight against terrible takes without the quipping. I think I just feel too much, but I don't feel comfortable celebrating death no matter who it is, depending on how they died and the aftermath of their actions. That's a slippery slope. Personally, it's sad when a person's death feels like the only thing that ends the harm they were causing, instead of accountability, or growth. But hey, sadly people can't be forced to change if they aren't willing to accept it. Edited July 11 by TheSine 💛 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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