This is Why I Support Arresting Far-Right People in Europe (a rant about Belfast)

[27monster27 16,039]

(This is admittedly an outside perspective since I'm from the US, but I've seen enough of this to know exactly what I see.)

Okay, for those unaware:

https://abcnews.com/International/extra-officers-called-violent-unrest-belfast-continues-night/story?id=133783094

This is why I don't think far-right figures deserve free speech. Call me authoritarian all you want, but I don't care. This is about saving lives. These genocidal murderers who are unfortunately legally allowed to say what they do are killing people, and that shouldn't be allowed.

And why is it always composition fallacies when it comes to minorities? When a white person commits a crime, they are a bad apple. When a POC commits a crime, they are their whole ethnicity/race. Nothing to say about the 30+ women killed by white men in Belfast in recent years? It's just like how people were/are pinning James Charles' actions on the entire LGBTQ+ community when he is one person. It's bullscheisse.

Also, am I supposed to feel bad for people on the far-right suffering given their actions? There are fascists globally who are celebrating this. Why should I feel bad for them if they suffer with losing free speech, voting rights, and being retaliated against. I wouldn't feel a thing. I hate being called evil for advocating for mass-re education and deprogramming when these people deserve it! I'm not gonna feel bad if you suffer when you bring that suffering on to others.

Lastly, the people rioting in Belfast aren't even Irish. They are loyalists. The irony is not lost on me that they are immigrants, though I personally prefer to call them settler colonialists. Irish people have been calling this out. The people stoking them (Elon Musk, Tommy Robinson, Nigel Farage, etc.) need to get it. I won't elaborate on that.

[Bonkers 30,871]

Hear me out:  a hole.

We dig a big hole, and everyone who is far right goes *into the hole*.

The hole is VERY VERY DEEP.  We don't know what's at the bottom, or if there is a bottom.  We don't technically know what happens when you get pushed into the hole, so it's not murder.  It's just *putting a problem into a hole*.

[River 128,632]

this is fascism lol

[PartySick 174,265]

I'm sure most would agree in spirit but any system we create that can be weaponized against the far right can and will eventually be used against the far left and normal people too.

Even "re-education" could be used against us.

You can't fix these people, you simply need to outnumber and out organize them.

[Sepsami 21,071]

You can't just tell people that their voice does not matter if you claim to value democracy, civil disagreement is the only way. People are allowed to be outraged over senseless violence.

[27monster27 16,039]

14 minutes ago, Sepsami said:

You can't just tell people that their voice does not matter if you claim to value democracy, civil disagreement is the only way. People are allowed to be outraged over senseless violence.

Yeah, but why does that allow for causing a pogrom? I literally outlined this in my post.

[Sepsami 21,071]

3 minutes ago, 27monster27 said:

Yeah, but why does that allow for causing a pogrom? I literally outlined this in my post.

People that are actually a part of it will be charged and arrested as they should. But outright criminalising alt-right politics is just going to fuel them, and if there's one side you don't want to give ammo to it's them. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 55,282]

2 hours ago, 27monster27 said:

Call me authoritarian all you want, but I don't care.

Nah, I agree: I think if there’s demonstrable proof that your speech led to violence, you should be held responsible for it legally. 

 

7 minutes ago, Sepsami said:

outright criminalising alt-right politics is just going to fuel them

I don’t think you’d have to criminalize alt-right politics so much as you’d have to strengthen the legal framework surrounding incitement as it pertains to speech. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 55,282]

1 hour ago, PartySick said:

I'm sure most would agree in spirit but any system we create that can be weaponized against the far right can and will eventually be used against the far left and normal people too.

Even "re-education" could be used against us.

You can't fix these people, you simply need to outnumber and out organize them.

This is the tricky one where I do think that, if speech leads to violence, you probably should just hold them legally accountable for it. The bar would have to be high enough where it couldn’t be easily abused, but functional enough that it would be meaningful recourse in instances like this. I also think, at minimum, civil recourse should be available/pursued.

[Sepsami 21,071]

3 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Nah, I agree: I think if there’s demonstrable proof that your speech led to violence, you should be held responsible for it legally. 

 

I don’t think you’d have to criminalize alt-right politics so much as you’d have to strengthen the legal framework surrounding incitement as it pertains to speech. 

That's fair yeah, idk how it is in England but in Belgium we have very strict laws when it comes to inciting violence and hatred.

We also have a sanitary cordon that excludes the far right from being part of the government. They can still organize, join elections and play the political game but they will always be part of the opposition if they never reach 50% of the votes  which is a very good solution imo. Our PM is ruthless in his dismissal of them and I love him for it.

[27monster27 16,039]

8 minutes ago, Sepsami said:

We also have a sanitary cordon that excludes the far right from being part of the government. They can still organize, join elections and play the political game but they will always be part of the opposition if they never reach 50% of the votes  which is a very good solution imo. Our PM is ruthless in his dismissal of them and I love him for it.

You know what? I don't hate this. They can't argue "oH mY FrEe SPEecH", but they can't get too much influence too easily.

[Sepsami 21,071]

2 minutes ago, 27monster27 said:

You know what? I don't hate this. They can't argue "oH mY FrEe SPEecH", but they can't get too much influence too easily.

Exactly, I'm often thankful for the political climate in Belgium, it feels like we still have reason