Alberta Separation From Canada: Judge Throws Out Petition For Referendum

[Economy 52,895]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/judge-quashes-decision-to-approve-separation-petition-9.7198553

 

A Court Judge has thrown out a petition for a separation referendum (for Alberta to seperate from Canada) that gathered over 300,000 signatures

 

Reasons include legality issues, among other things, no consultation with 1st Nations Groups of which both Canada and the Province have treaties with

 

Conservative Premier of Alberta Danielle Smith claims she is in favour of Alberta staying in Canada but that she is disapointed in the decision suggestion people should have the freedom to express their wishes, likely trying to walk a political fine line to try to appease some on the far right supporters (Seperatists in  Alberta are disproportionately overwhemingly Conservative)

 

 

Edited May 16 by Economy

[Economy 52,895]

I assume this has not made major headlines outside of Canada so before comments ask whats this about, I will elaborate on the issue.

 

Seperatism in Canada is not new. It has been an issue with Quebec for many decades as there are frictions, political and cultural differences with French Canada that a portion of Quebecers (Quebecois) have long wanted to seperate from Canada primarily for those reasons

 

In Albertas case this is a newer phenomenom. Alberta is by most measures Canadas wealthiest Province. It has averaged one of the lowest unemployment rates, has one of the Governments with lowest debt (and only Province that has a wealth fund). It has Canadas highest GDP Per Capita and highest average wages. This largely due to massive Oil industry (but also Natural Gas, Coal, Metals and other valuable resources).

 

Subtle resentlement started when the Province started to boom in early 2000s and some felt the Province was contributing more economically to Canada than getting back including in tax revenue and being milked of financial resources.

 

However what has really grown frustration is that despite over 2 decades of strong economic contributions, some Albertans see Canada as not being grateful or supportive because environmental regulations have gotten in the way of Resource development. Theres been additional frustration with British Columbia which by coincidence happens to be the most left and environmenmentally conscious Province in Canada (along with Quebec) often blocking their attempts to build pipelines either with direct legal challenges or delay/stall tactics

 

These Albertans feel Alberta is better off keeping all its wealth to itself rather than having to share with a Country that isnt supportive of their industries anyway. Alberta is also notoriously far more Conservative and Right Winged than the rest of Canada meaning it rarely sees eye to eye on economic policy or environmental regulations. For context, Alberta elected a Conservative Government for 40 years in a row before breaking that streak with the previous NDP Government that won for 1 single term before they swung back to Conservatives yet again

 

These political feelings may have influenced the CPP fiasco last year where Alberta Government wanted to leave the Canadian Pension System and take 53% of the fund with them they claimed they were entitled too (with some really shotty math I may add)

 

While the number of Albertans who have had their differences with Canada are not few, those who outright want to go as far as to seperate is neverthless still shown to be a minority, certainly less than in Quebec. Most would rather sort out the differences and find common ground

 

@Bronco international political expert. Curious if u were aware of this movement? Given its largely internal im sure if gets few if any international headlines especially since a serious referendum or possibility of seperation at this time is extremely unlikely

[Bronco 25,853]

Wasn't aware of this specifically, but was aware that Alberta is the black sheep of Canada. 

I do think all these small states/regions like Alberta etc fail to realise that they're only in the position of strength they're in because they are part of a larger nation. 

Like Alberta is undisputed as the wealthiest province, but its able to get the deals it does for its international trade because its part of a far larger country that has larger pull when dealing with other nations. If they went independent, America would destroy that wealth in minutes and forced them to agree deals with little to no profit at all.

[Economy 52,895]

20 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Wasn't aware of this specifically, but was aware that Alberta is the black sheep of Canada. 

I do think all these small states/regions like Alberta etc fail to realise that they're only in the position of strength they're in because they are part of a larger nation. 

Like Alberta is undisputed as the wealthiest province, but its able to get the deals it does for its international trade because its part of a far larger country that has larger pull when dealing with other nations. If they went independent, America would destroy that wealth in minutes and forced them to agree deals with little to no profit at all.

Yeah this seperation fueled by frustration isnt all that well thought out. One of their major complaints is that we get in the way of pipelines getting build for example.

 

How exactly is becoming a landlocked Nation going to help them? They still wont have access to ports. British Columbia who they butt heads with all the time will still be their geographical neighbour but by not being in the Same Nation it makes negotiations even worse. And it makes BC even less obligated to allow any new Alberta infrastructure through their land. So it would actually make their grievances worse 

 

Quebec at least has ports, Ocean access facing right to the Atlantic. Not to mention an industrial base heavily interconnected with business deals in the US and Ontario as well. While they may be less wealthy, they could likely pull off success in seperation better than Alberta

 

Alberta as blessed with resources as it is and despite its economic might... it is in a very unfortunate geographical area to pull any serious weight on world stage on self reliance if it is not part of Canada. Not only is it landlocked, but it does not have high population density near it to trade with. Saskatchewan to the East has less than 2 milliom people, NorthWest Territories to the North is almost barren, and the US states it neighbours are not very populated either. British Columbia has a bit more people but they are in the far west end of the Province so they are not exactly quick easy trade either

 

Basically im saying, theres only a handful of landlocked success stories such as Switzerland for example, and I dont think Albertas geographical area would allow it to be one of those exeptions. Its economy would most certainly decline.

Edited May 16 by Economy

[Just A Holy Fool 2,660]

Danielle Smith can huff and puff all she wants to appease her looney base, but the court decisions along with the shady stuff going on with the voter lists breach, I think the referendum will not include a question on independence this fall. 

[Laxy 401]

Can we trade them for California, Washington, and Oregon? Or New England? I want them ****ing gone. Lunatics. 

[PartySick 172,972]

1 hour ago, Laxy said:

Can we trade them for California, Washington, and Oregon? Or New England? I want them ****ing gone. Lunatics. 

You want to accept one of Canada's most conservative states in exchange for the most progressive US states?  

It's like asking to trade your chocolate cake for a plate of human sh*t idk

[Economy 52,895]

49 minutes ago, PartySick said:

You want to accept one of Canada's most conservative states in exchange for the most progressive US states?  

It's like asking to trade your chocolate cake for a plate of human sh*t idk

Unless Laxy is a Canadian and what they are actually saying is... the US take Alberta and we take California

 

The two most Conservative Provinces are Alberta and Saskatchwean and they are side by side. Take them both and give us California

 

I know California is a huge economy youd give up but if you make the trade you get the worlds 3rd largest Oil reserves, 3rd Largest Uranium Reserves, top 5 Natural Gas Reserves, One of the largest Potash Reserves and I know USA loves taking resources

 

(Jk of course would still be a terrible trade for USA given sheer population and economic size of California )

Edited May 16 by Economy

[PartySick 172,972]

1 hour ago, Economy said:

Unless Laxy is a Canadian and what they are actually saying is... the US take Alberta and we take California

 

The two most Conservative Provinces are Alberta and Saskatchwean and they are side by side. Take them both and give us California

 

I know California is a huge economy youd give up but if you make the trade you get the worlds 3rd largest Oil reserves, 3rd Largest Uranium Reserves, top 5 Natural Gas Reserves, One of the largest Potash Reserves and I know USA loves taking resources

 

(Jk of course would still be a terrible trade for USA given sheer population and economic size of California )

You know what  

Canada can have California when I move to California  

Canadian AND Californian? I'd win so hard

[Economy 52,895]

14 minutes ago, PartySick said:

You know what  

Canada can have California when I move to California  

Canadian AND Californian? I'd win so hard

Isnt it notoriously so expensive and unaffordable tho?

[PartySick 172,972]

1 minute ago, Economy said:

Isnt it notoriously so expensive and unaffordable tho?

Where isn't these days  

Florida ain't much better and we're governed by MAGA idiots

I'll pay more (and get paid more xoxo) to be surrounded by sanity

[Economy 52,895]

20 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Where isn't these days  

Florida ain't much better and we're governed by MAGA idiots

I'll pay more (and get paid more xoxo) to be surrounded by sanity

Lol i could be out of date but isnt California still way worse?

 

Anyway point taken about it going up everywhere. I considered moving to a smaller city to get cheaper housing and cost of living.

 

But the gap in prices between the bigger cities and smaller ones have narrowed so it is no longer worth it to have to find a new job and have to move away from family to save a couple hundred a month at best or mortgage payments

 

I will say tho, there seems to be a very consistent pattern with Left Wing Jurisdictions having the most costly housing markets in general. In Canada its British Columbia thats the worst (and they are the most Left Province)... then its Ontario which is not as left as BC but is still Liberal leaning. And Atlantic Canada in East have it extrenely expensive relative to wages. Quebec seems like the only left leaning Province to be an exeption to that. Alberta and Sasktachwean which are Conservative have way cheaper housing and thats despite wages being higher especially in Alberta

 

In USA, NY and California are the two most expensive States which are very blue while a comperable state Like Texas in terms of population is generally way cheaper

 

I am very pro left in terms of taxing the rich more to help income inequality and fund needed programs. But the left seems to somehow always get in the way of home construction with dysfunctional red tape and screwes up housing like every single time

 

Im a pretty non partisan person and dont automatically defend one side of the spectrum just because I identify with it. When it comesto housing the left seems to have a much worse record for some reason

[xxxdreams 168]

This is like California or Texas seceding from the U.S., or, for short, stupid.

[Laxy 401]

15 hours ago, PartySick said:

You want to accept one of Canada's most conservative states in exchange for the most progressive US states?  

It's like asking to trade your chocolate cake for a plate of human sh*t idk

LOL I am Canadian so yes that is exactly what I am saying. Alberta and Saskatchewan can go directly to Ameirca and we will take that beaufiful coast that Turnip loves to hate. Problem solved.