Kavinsky says Gaga rip-off his song

[Guillaume Hamon 6,856]

7 minutes ago, Sarah H said:

Yeah I can't see his X account. Instagram still there though. 

 

1 hour ago, Defmix100 said:

He's deleted his account?

If he had to delete an account to avoid bullying from gaga stans that's really sad... 

For years I've been saying we left that behind us and weren't crazy bullies anymore. I hope it's still globally true. 

[Apec 167]

2 hours ago, Freud said:

If Gaga's team hasn't informed him of using "Nightcall" I totally understand that he is upset about it. But why calling it a rip-off and being emotional abut it instead of telling everybody that the usage was not cleared.

That's just it: they didn't use Nightcall. It's not even a sample - the notes of the infamous arpeggio (as well as the others) are different. You don't have to clear anything if it's not a sample, giving a heads-up might've been nice but if you saw the making of featurette on AppleMusic you saw she was still rearranging songs 72 hours before the show, and was so incredibly busy on all fronts 24 hours before. I think she'd normally let him know but the chaos in pulling this together at seemingly short notice - she's human.  Calling it a rip-off so aggressively when it was just synthwave influence isn't it. Her arpeggio is different so nothing was ripped off. Calm down, man! (Talking to Kavinsky).

Sorry, just upset about (hopefully) a misunderstanding on his part, not a way to market Nightcall, which was in turn inspired and helped produce by a member of Daft Punk. There are so many synthwave songs like it out there, from before Nightcall even (I've learned a lot the last 24 hours). If he knows it's not a sample, he should apologize sincerely, because he should know everything about influences and how they are in no way rip-offs.  Us Burgundians (yes, I'm Flemish but it's close) live life in all its glory and excess, including being known for having a shorter fuse but at least CHECK.

I just hope he couldn't hear the difference between his own song and Gaga's before he angry!posted, that's all. Or maybe an aide rushed to tell him there was Kavinsky in her new music... But his second message about letting him know sounds err, more like saving face. I just don't know. 

No anger/anything negative aimed at you btw. There seems to be a lot of confusion which is why I semi-harassed (it was early in the morning) a great friend who is fantastically musically gifted on both piano, electric and acoustic guitar, synthesizer and nearly anything electronic music (who had no bone in this fight, so to speak), who compared the two pieces of music for almost 2 hours to make me confident in what I’m saying. 

ETA: This'll be the last time I speak on this (unless there's a big update), I just hate how this beautiful moment, almost from the minute after the concert had ended at first, had to be muddled by lies ("rip-off") by an artist not involved AT ALL in this emotional, gorgeous piece of art called Mayhem Requiem. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Apec

[AndieDarko 56]

This is interesting. Cause I immediately recognized that Lady Gaga was mashing it up with another song. I don't know much of his other work, but Nightcall and the soundtrack of Drive is insane in a good way imo and I recommend people check it out.

I could not place the name of the song, but this thread was like the lightbulb in confirming im not crazy for thinking Ive heard it before.

But yea I'm honestly not the biggest fan of the die with the smile version with this although I think the performance is amazing, 

[lasagna 3,176]

you all drag beyonce over allegedly not crediting samples and interpolations but when gaga does it oh im sure its a misunderstanding  interesting

[elijahfan 27,326]

Hopefully a miscommunication issue. The song's influence is undeniable, I literally said so in another thread before this drama.

[Apec 167]

31 minutes ago, lasagna said:

you all drag beyonce over allegedly not crediting samples and interpolations but when gaga does it oh im sure its a misunderstanding  interesting

Final post on this thread, sorry. The infamous arpeggio as well as all other notes are different, so you couldn't even call it a sample. No samples, no paying/asking for permission from his label. So there were no interpolations nor samples here. No rip-offs, just influences, which Kavinsky should know all about.  

I mean this in a friendly way, have never said anything about how Beyonce handles her music because the only non-late 70's/80's artist I follow is LG, so I honestly wouldn't know.  But different notes as in this case = different notes. His "she could've given me a heads up" was already singing a verrrry different tune than "RIP-OF!!!"

I heard somewhere (on here probably, normally I have no idea) Beyonce has a new album out this year. I hope from the bottom of my heart that you'll love it like I loved Mayhem and Mayhem Requiem! 

[Defmix100 6,890]

21 minutes ago, Apec said:

Final post on this thread, sorry. The infamous arpeggio as well as all other notes are different, so you couldn't even call it a sample. No samples, no paying/asking for permission from his label. So there were no interpolations nor samples here. No rip-offs, just influences, which Kavinsky should know all about.  

That sounds possible, but then why were so many fans bombarding him saying he has been officially credited?

[Apec 167]

6 minutes ago, Defmix100 said:

That sounds possible, but then why were so many fans bombarding him saying he has been officially credited?

Apparently he was credited on Genius at first, but not on the actual song on AppleMusic, which didn't help with the confusion at all!

[lasagna 3,176]

43 minutes ago, Apec said:

Final post on this thread, sorry. The infamous arpeggio as well as all other notes are different, so you couldn't even call it a sample. No samples, no paying/asking for permission from his label. So there were no interpolations nor samples here. No rip-offs, just influences, which Kavinsky should know all about.  

I mean this in a friendly way, have never said anything about how Beyonce handles her music because the only non-late 70's/80's artist I follow is LG, so I honestly wouldn't know.  But different notes as in this case = different notes. His "she could've given me a heads up" was already singing a verrrry different tune than "RIP-OF!!!"

I heard somewhere (on here probably, normally I have no idea) Beyonce has a new album out this year. I hope from the bottom of my heart that you'll love it like I loved Mayhem and Mayhem Requiem! 

im confused, what i said wasn't an attack on you or you liking mayhem? while i disagree and think that it's a pretty clear interpolation or sample that has been adjusted to blend well with dwas, the songs are that similar that people immediately thought it was a sample of kavinsky, which would still be an issue that should probably have been addressed.

in my mind it is far far far similar sounding than the souxie and the banshees abracadabra interpolation that gaga did give credit for, so i think its only fair that kavinsky is at least confused at what's happened.

it doesn't make gaga or kavinsky a bad person, like most of these incidents its probably a miscommunication or misunderstanding.

Edited 4 hours ago by lasagna

[Ladle Ghoulash 44,651]

23 minutes ago, Defmix100 said:

That sounds possible, but then why were so many fans bombarding him saying he has been officially credited?

Because they’re proactively defending Gaga without thinking about what they’re saying (and because fans claimed that it was an overt sample/interpolation prior to release, so many are just taking that at face value and assuming he’s been credited)

[Ladle Ghoulash 44,651]

4 minutes ago, lasagna said:

im confused, what i said wasn't an attack on you or you liking mayhem? while i disagree and think that it's a pretty clear interpolation or sample that has been adjusted to blend well with dwas, the songs are that similar that people immediately thought it was a sample of kavinsky, which would still be an issue that should probably have been addressed.

in my mind it is far far far similar sounding than the souxie and the banshees abracadabra interpolation that gaga did give credit for, so i think its only fair that kavinsky is at least confused at what's happened.

it doesn't make gaga or kavinsky a bad person, like most of these incidents its probably a miscommunication or misunderstanding.

But if it’s been adjusted to the extent that it’s melodically different, then it’s not really a sample or an interpolation anymore (see: the funk guitar in Killah being a clear reference to Fame by Bowie without crossing into the territory of explicit interpolation or sample because it’s meaningfully different enough to be its own lick).

[Natalia Kills 393]

To be honest, this is now 100% on Gaga to fix, even it wasn’t her doing.

If someone took a sample or interpolation of her without crediting her, fans would be livid. 

He’s being salty (and catty) but understandably so, it’s his signature song. 

The Kavingsky comparison already came out from fans that went to the live show, so the assumption it’s a sample has been there for a few months. It’s odd no one on her team saw the reviews/attendee comments.

Her team are normally pretty good at this, so this is a surprise. It’s probably because they’re doing a lot of context switching with so many projects on the go.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Natalia Kills

[lasagna 3,176]

Just now, Ladle Ghoulash said:

But if it’s been adjusted to the extent that it’s melodically different, then it’s not really a sample or an interpolation anymore (see: the funk guitar in Killah being a clear reference to Fame by Bowie without crossing into the territory of explicit interpolation or sample because it’s meaningfully different enough to be its own lick).

i do get what you're saying but even if a sample was used and modified its still a sample and should be credited or compensated accordingly. sample laws are annoyingly pretty clear in that if any amount of another song is used as a sample it must have been cleared even if its modified and distorted beyond recognition. i'm not sure if i personally agree with that if its beyond recognition, but it is what's technically meant to be done by artists using samples.

[Ladle Ghoulash 44,651]

6 minutes ago, lasagna said:

i do get what you're saying but even if a sample was used and modified its still a sample and should be credited or compensated accordingly. sample laws are annoyingly pretty clear in that if any amount of another song is used as a sample it must have been cleared even if its modified and distorted beyond recognition. i'm not sure if i personally agree with that if its beyond recognition, but it is what's technically meant to be done by artists using samples.

But what I’m saying is: I don’t think it’s actually being sampled or interpolated. It’s basically original live synth parts written in a similar synthwave style to Nightcall, but not sourced from the original recording (sampling) nor directly recreating a recognizable melodic composition from it (interpolation). You don’t get credited for stylistic similarities alone, so unless the song is actually lifting audio or compositionally identifiable material, it isn’t technically a sample or interpolation.

Edited 3 hours ago by Ladle Ghoulash

[Apec 167]

54 minutes ago, lasagna said:

im confused, what i said wasn't an attack on you or you liking mayhem? while i disagree and think that it's a pretty clear interpolation or sample that has been adjusted to blend well with dwas, the songs are that similar that people immediately thought it was a sample of kavinsky, which would still be an issue that should probably have been addressed.

in my mind it is far far far similar sounding than the souxie and the banshees abracadabra interpolation that gaga did give credit for, so i think its only fair that kavinsky is at least confused at what's happened.

it doesn't make gaga or kavinsky a bad person, like most of these incidents its probably a miscommunication or misunderstanding.

I get I was responding to a semi-sarcastic/cynical post of yours:

"you all drag beyonce over allegedly not crediting samples and interpolations but when gaga does it oh im sure its a misunderstanding interesting"

but believe me, I was 100% genuine and truthful in every word I said. Please read my longer post on how the notes are all different, this is not a sample or interpolation at all! BUT there's so much confusion here about what makes true interpolations and samples. I wrote about it at length on this or last page/2 pages ago when this is posted maybe (about calling my musically gifted friend who plays 762555 instruments looking at the sheet music for Nightcall vs. how Gaga's new DWAS is played note-wise and how they are merely influences, not a true sample as defined by labels and the law because the notes are all different, including in the arpeggio). Influences aren't wrong and don't need to be checked/approved by the other label, Kavinsky is also very much into them (a Daft Punk member was a producer on Nightcall). Sounding much more like x doesn't make it a sample or a rip-off, though. That's very personal so for actual proof you need to look at transformation of said influence: You need to look at the key(s) and notes that are required to make it exactly like her version, that they are different. I think a heads up would've been nice of her but she was so busy up until the last minute it seemed in the making of feature. She probably forgot due to the juggling she was already doing for days. Please read what I wrote for more info if you want to, of course, but even more importantly:

I truly didn't mean to attack you at all! You were talking about how people treated Beyonce differently, I in all honesty said I didn't know that because I never read those threads were that might be happening. Because I'm a fan of Gaga primarily and love the music of those 80's people/bands I mentioned. I don't know much about Beyonce honestly.

That's sad what you said if it keeps happening unjustly, I thought, and then I vaguely remembered reading Beyonce was dropping a new album this year and since I thought you were obviously a fan, I genuinely wanted to convey my excitement for you, to you.  Doesn't mean I think you didn't love both Mayhems, it was a way of describing the pure joy I hoped you were gonna experience (again). No sarcasm, let alone an attack, at all. Please don't take my honest thoughts that way. 

It's difficult to read tone over the internet but believe me, I literally meant all my words - maybe they came out clumsy but I hope I've cleared it up with this post. If not, my messages are open, I just wanted to be nice but if there's anything you feel needs more clearing up, I'm here. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Apec