ARTPOPpers, where are you now?

[gagzus 20,149]

Just now, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I don’t think it’s *not* corporate, I just don’t think it being corporate in this instance is necessarily a huge problem because it is, in large part, acting as an advertisement for a movie (and it’s very good in that regard, even if it isn’t necessarily a favorite of mine)

You see, personally I find say 'Die With a Smile' far more corporate. Because to me corporate doesn't feel targeted. It feels blanket. Runway feels like it was made for TDWP2 fans and for the fans of Gaga and Doechii. I think it's purpose is corporate. But the song itself isn't.

I'm not obviously going to make Runway deeper than it is, because, only Gaga knows what she wrote and why. I think it's just camp without irony. She isn't saying "ooo isn't it funny I'm using the terms 'kiki' and 'tea'" I think she's genuinely using them with sincerity like how they'd be used in ball culture. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 44,526]

14 minutes ago, gagzus said:

You see, personally I find say 'Die With a Smile' far more corporate. Because to me corporate doesn't feel targeted. It feels blanket. Runway feels like it was made for TDWP2 fans and for the fans of Gaga and Doechii. I think it's purpose is corporate. But the song itself isn't.

I'm not obviously going to make Runway deeper than it is, because, only Gaga knows what she wrote and why. I think it's just camp without irony. She isn't saying "ooo isn't it funny I'm using the terms 'kiki' and 'tea'" I think she's genuinely using them with sincerity like how they'd be used in ball culture. 

I think RW is corporate in the way rainbow capitalism and modern RPDR is corporate (somewhat panders to a targeted demographic), whereas DWAS is corporate in the way that mass marketing is corporate (which is part of the reason why I tend to prefer RW to DWAS), but I feel like both are undeniably corporate in their own way. I also don’t necessarily think something being “corporate” means insincere as much as it means, “calibrated to be digestible and marketable in a mainstream way.” There’s definitely avenues for being authentic in that framework, but it also comes with its own conceptual and aesthetic drawbacks.

Edited 9 hours ago by Ladle Ghoulash

[Starmie25 22,049]

57 minutes ago, MountainMonster said:

Prolly in a ditch after seeing Requiem. Requiem is everything ARTPOP strived to be, but done correctly. 

That was a bit rude 

 

 

 

[Ladle Ghoulash 44,526]

8 minutes ago, Gorehound said:

I might be barking up the wrong tree here don't mind me,.. but I think another reason why Queer has become a  stereotyped aesthetic is because not everyone has a feeling of distinct queer identity, or even know how to express that uniquely, so they therefore latch onto already established aesthetics that others have in their groups. I mean look at Goth with their very recognisable aesthetic, or the current Non-Binary style - they all typically have colourful hair, facial piercings and bad fashion etc (no offence). I think it's the same with any movement or culture that it ends up having a stereotypical look and way of being cuz people wanna feel like they belong. It kinda counteracts Queer's concept of "freedom of identity" in some ways. 

You’re not barking up the wrong tree at all, that’s a huge part of what I’m getting at here and it’s something that, while understandable, I wish people were a bit more cognizant of and less of a slave to in general

[Gorehound 5,446]

16 minutes ago, gagzus said:

Good is subjective and personal. But calling it corporate is still baffling.

For example our definitions of "good", could be entirely different.

Very true, but the reason people are calling Runway corporate is because it does sound corporate. Almost stock music level for a typical TV fashion or perfume ad - it's very mainstream and cliché - and that's absolutely fine cuz it's for a high-profile movie typically directed towards boomer women and gays - but it does turn a lot of fans off considering how unique and Gaga-coded Gaga's music normally is. The music video is still very Gaga and that's great.

[holy scheisse 22,731]

Runway felt more chromatica than art pop to me personally  

[RAMROD 115,650]

Little ARTPOPers who are also Little MAYHEMers coming into this thread like

[gagzus 20,149]

3 minutes ago, Gorehound said:

Very true, but the reason people are calling Runway corporate is because it does sound corporate. Almost stock music level for a typical TV fashion or perfume ad - it's very mainstream and cliché - and that's absolutely fine cuz it's for a high-profile movie typically directed towards boomer women and gays - but it does turn a lot of fans off considering how unique and Gaga-coded Gaga's music normally is. The music video is still very Gaga and that's great.

For me it's still very much Gaga coded. She has songs like 'Fashion!', 'Donatella' where she's explored the same themes and style of simplistic writing. Corporate doesn't have a sound, but obviously, that's just a personal taste thing. 

I often remind people this is the same woman who's just wrote the lyrics "Gonna make the curtains cream", and also wrote "Love it when you call me legs, in the morning buy me eggs". She also was going to release a song called "Tea" at the height of the queer lexicon dominating. I'd say she just knows her audience.

The music is still Gaga coded, it's a quirky electropop (inspired by dance music) track, that has multiple hooks and talks about fashion with an accompanying artistic visual. That's literally base level Gaga in a nutshell I'd say. 

 

[Gorehound 5,446]

42 minutes ago, MountainMonster said:

Prolly in a ditch after seeing Requiem. Requiem is everything ARTPOP strived to be, but done correctly. 

I don't think so. ARTPOP had its own thing going on and was more conceptual rather than wholly music focused. Mayhem Requiem isn't trying to break boundaries by exhibiting extreme performance art like being puked on, or stripping off costumes and wigs to try and lay bare its true self, or questioning arts relationship in popular culture. It's Gaga celebrating the beauty of music engineering and rejoicing in was is a damn good album. 

[Gorehound 5,446]

19 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

You’re not barking up the wrong tree at all, that’s a huge part of what I’m getting at here and it’s something that, while understandable, I wish people were a bit more cognizant of and less of a slave to in general

But that's the same with everything isn't it. Most people are typically conditioned to become a slave to a norm. Like my parents live in a suburban area and they all believe that a perfectly mown lawn, having a nice clean car on display, and dress "smart" is the way to be. And it's a real problem to them if it isn't, although I find all that obnoxious. A large majority of queer people learn how to look, act and therefore 'feel' queer by copying what they believe to be the established 'queer way to be', rather than being their authentic self. 

.......I've basically just repeated myself 

Edited 9 hours ago by Gorehound

[Ladle Ghoulash 44,526]

36 minutes ago, Gorehound said:

I don't think so. ARTPOP had its own thing going on and was more conceptual rather than wholly music focused. Mayhem Requiem isn't trying to break boundaries by exhibiting extreme performance art like being puked on, or stripping off costumes and wigs to try and lay bare its true self, or questioning arts relationship in popular culture. It's Gaga celebrating the beauty of music engineering and rejoicing in was is a damn good album. 

I’d say REQUIEM is plenty conceptual, tbh. I honestly feel like the idea of REQUIEM being a “posthumous” reimagining of the album (apparently set in the ruins of the MAYHEM opera house hundreds of years in the future) evokes the idea of Gaga’s persona in the film as a conduit or a necromancer of sorts, communing with the spirits of past selves, exorcizing them like demons, and then dying unto them as a way of being reborn. Tbh I feel like as a standalone work, REQUIEM is more conceptually/symbolically fertile than most of the ARTPOP era (although I do think the performance art of the ARTPOP era is probably its greatest asset).

Edited 8 hours ago by Ladle Ghoulash

[Gorehound 5,446]

13 minutes ago, gagzus said:

For me it's still very much Gaga coded. She has songs like 'Fashion!', 'Donatella' where she's explored the same themes and style of simplistic writing. Corporate doesn't have a sound, but obviously, that's just a personal taste thing. 

I often remind people this is the same woman who's just wrote the lyrics "Gonna make the curtains cream", and also wrote "Love it when you call me legs, in the morning buy me eggs". She also was going to release a song called "Tea" at the height of the queer lexicon dominating. I'd say she just knows her audience.

The music is still Gaga coded, it's a quirky electropop (inspired by dance music) track, that has multiple hooks and talks about fashion with an accompanying artistic visual. That's literally base level Gaga in a nutshell I'd say. 

 

Ye true, but (not including the music video), it's very safe Gaga. Most of Gaga's best songs simply cannot be done by another artist (see Demi Lovato's cover of D and PC), but you could replace Gaga with any pop girl on Runway and it would still be the same and not feel out of place imo. It's missing that essential Gaga spice, and the general luke warm reception by the fans proves this point. 

[Gorehound 5,446]

11 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I’d say REQUIEM is plenty conceptual, tbh. I honestly feel like the idea of REQUIEM being a “posthumous” reimagining of the album (apparently set in the ruins of the MAYHEM opera house in 2050) evokes the idea of Gaga’s persona in the film as a conduit or a necromancer of sorts, communing with the spirits of past selves, exorcizing them like demons, and then dying unto them as a way of being reborn. Tbh I feel like as a standalone work, I feel like REQUIEM is more conceptually/symbolically fertile than most of the ARTPOP era (although I do think the performance art of the ARTPOP era is probably its greatest asset).

Ye very true, I didn't mean that Requiem isn't conceptual cuz it definitely is, but its premise is different to what ARTPOP was trying to do; therefore I think it's unfair to compare the two. Requiem has a very centred and finalised direction, whereas ARTPOP was a loose concept and very much spaghetti at the wall. However I would kill to see an ARTPOP Requiem 

Oh idk, I like the performance art of the ARTPOP era. As messy and misguided as it was I think it's very fitting to the album. Personally I think the whole puke performance was one of the best thing's she's ever done; like pushing the Paparazzi VMAs performance to new extremes.

Edited 9 hours ago by Gorehound

[Ladle Ghoulash 44,526]

Just now, Gorehound said:

Ye very true, I didn't mean that Requiem isn't conceptual cuz it definitely is, but it's premise is different to what ARTPOP was trying to do; therefore I think it's unfair to compare the two. However I would kill to see an ARTPOP Requiem 

Oh idk, I like the performance art of the ARTPOP era. As messy and misguided as it was I think it's very fitting to the album.  

I see what you mean, fs. I feel like @MountainMonstermight’ve been thinking of ARTPOP more as an artistic and aesthetic approach (“my ARTPOP could mean anything,” permission structure to do whatever she wanted, experimental approach to music etc.) as opposed to the performance art of the era itself. Also I think the performance art of the ARTPOP era is the best part of the era (called it the era’s “greatest asset” in my previous comment) so I def agree. 

[MountainMonster 2,115]

37 minutes ago, Starmie25 said:

That was a bit rude 

 

 

 

It was.

 

and accurate.