ARTPOPpers, where are you now?

[gagzus 20,149]

1 minute ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Another thing I do genuinely resent rainbow capitalism for is the consolidation of a commercial, monolithic “gay identity.” I think solidarity is important, but the way that a lot of gay folks have internalized what I think is a fairly corporate notion of what is and is not gay/queer media is borderline cultural brainrot. How about just engage with something based on its merit and allow for things to be queer in a multitude of ways instead of everything needing to be “c*nty” in order to be considered queer?

Exactly. We make fun of how we're treated so corporately, like the "hi gay!" meme online for instance. But we won't allow camp to be camp, unless it's somehow ironic. We're a society dominated by irony now. And I think a culture shift in the mid 2010s was when that happened. Even gay people water down their queerness into simplified terms. "I am gay because... I am not gay because..." people are terrified of being seen as THAT gay.

[Bronco 21,276]

Honestly, i dont think its that ARTPOP coded.

But even if it were - ARTPOP doesn't do big streaming numbers now and didnt do massive numers back in the day. So runway not doing it either fits lol

[Charmi3 104]

1 hour ago, Quartz said:

Runway was made for you guys. Where are you?

here... still listening to ARTPOP... Walkway could never...

[Ladle Ghoulash 44,526]

1 minute ago, gagzus said:

Exactly. We make fun of how we're treated so corporately, like the "hi gay!" meme online for instance. But we won't allow camp to be camp, unless it's somehow ironic. We're a society dominated by irony now. And I think a culture shift in the mid 2010s was when that happened. Even gay people water down their queerness into simplified terms. "I am gay because... I am not gay because..." people are terrified of being seen as THAT gay.

I think the issue also boils down to the way that corporatizing results in either the perceived or actual defanging of culture, so some of the reactionary irony is fueled by the Disneyfication of the gay/queer experience and the desire to differentiate yourself from what feels like a somewhat hollowed/overly sanitized stereotype. 

[gagzus 20,149]

20 minutes ago, Obobo said:

I wouldn't consider it French house. I could describe Fashion! as a Daft Punk disco-ish song. The lyric "fashion!" is also inspired by David Bowie's "let's dance!". Really shows how ARTPOP straddles the line between experimental and pop (leaning more towards pop).

Runway just sounds like 90s French house, and that's pretty much it. Nothing really interesting about it.

I'd argued it isn't French House whatsoever. French House as a genre requires sampling and interpolation of Disco music. Replay is closer to that than Runway is. 

Also want to point out your first line is a contradiction. Because Daft Punk were ABSOLUTELY one of, if not the, biggest French House "bands". They primarily made FH and then went on to experiment a lot more. Their biggest hits; 'One More Time', 'Around the World' are French House songs. 

The album version of Fashion! feels closer to late Chic and solo Nile Rogers music. Disco era Diana Ross almost. 

Edited 10 hours ago by gagzus

[gagzus 20,149]

2 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I think the issue also boils down to the way that corporatizing results in either the perceived or actual defanging of culture, so some of the reactionary irony is fueled by the Disneyfication of the gay/queer experience and the desire to differentiate yourself from what feels like a somewhat hollowed/overly sanitized stereotype. 

I've found now, a big reason for the anti-trans argument seems to be a visibility they can't quantify. Because it goes beyond the flags, the parades, the sex-parties and the superficial stuff. People need everything in life to be black and white. No grey area. 

Some gay people seem to think that the fight for inequality stopped with gay marriage. I know this is a very deep conversation to be having on a music thread, but I really think it's true. 

[MountainMonster 2,115]

Prolly in a ditch after seeing Requiem. Requiem is everything ARTPOP strived to be, but done correctly. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 44,526]

1 minute ago, gagzus said:

I've found now, a big reason for the anti-trans argument seems to be a visibility they can't quantify. Because it goes beyond the flags, the parades, the sex-parties and the superficial stuff. People need everything in life to be black and white. No grey area. 

Some gay people seem to think that the fight for inequality stopped with gay marriage. I know this is a very deep conversation to be having on a music thread, but I really think it's true. 

It’s definitely a layered and complicated issue. The dance between integration/assimilation and individuation/differentiation is one of the most complicated parts of the modern queer experience, tbh. On the one hand, assimilation can come at the cost of the recognition of shared struggle and cultural history, on the other, it can allow for more sincere self-discovery (one not centered around defining oneself in contrast to the norm for the sake of visibility and recognition).

To your point about gay marriage, I think that perfectly captures the double edged sword of assimilation/acceptance: for some gay men, the shared queer struggle no longer exists because they got theirs, are accepted, and don’t feel the need to risk their comfort for the sake of bringing someone else into the fold. While the acceptance is deserved, becoming complacent to the oppression of others is exactly how you lose your rights (hence TERFs moving on from solely targeting trans women, but now attacking gay men through surrogacy as a proxy and by embracing the idea that “gay men are still men at the end of the day” and even engaging in the farce that gay men are somehow more misogynistic than straight men). 

[Gorehound 5,446]

Calling Runway ARTPOP-coded is a reach I'm sorry. 

 

Anyhoo, stream Venus!

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Gorehound

[Gorehound 5,446]

55 minutes ago, gagzus said:

It still baffles me that people call a song that’s made by a bisexual and lesbian, with a House beat (a genre that was made and defined by queer and black people), “corporate” goes to show you just how commercialised it became.

 

 

Well in the end of the day the song still has to be 'good'.

[gagzus 20,149]

2 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

It’s definitely a layered and complicated issue. The dance between integration/assimilation and individuation/differentiation is one of the most complicated parts of the modern queer experience, tbh. On the one hand, assimilation can come at the cost of the recognition of shared struggle and cultural history, on the other, it can allow for more sincere self-discovery (one not centered around defining oneself in contrast to the norm for the sake of visibility and recognition).

To your point about gay marriage, I think that perfectly captures the double edged sword of assimilation/acceptance: for some gay men, the shared queer struggle no longer exists because they got theirs, are accepted, and don’t feel the need to risk their comfort for the sake of bringing someone else into the fold. While the acceptance is deserved, becoming complacent to the oppression of others is exactly how you lose your rights (hence TERFs moving on from solely targeting trans women, but now attacking gay men through surrogacy as a proxy and by embracing the idea that “gay men are still men at the end of the day” and even engaging in the farce that gay men are somehow more misogynistic than straight men). 

I think in the end, it's all about power and the fear of losing it.

Gay people gained some assimilation and power, now they fear to lose it because of how linked the entire community is; straight people had to literally group us together to identify us as a collective "other". TERF Women specifically gained power to level the gender playing field between themselves and men, and now see men becoming comfortable with admitting that their sexuality is in fact fluid and their acceptance has become less rigid. Now they realise that femininity was a performance, so they feel that any gay man or trans woman is a threat to their role in society. 

I can't count how many times i've been in drag, and had women ask about my gender and genitals just to feel a "black and white" answer to their feelings. Not to mention straight people literally put us EVERYWHERE and now complain when they see queer people on television, in music, on beauty ads. They aren't able to ignore us and "switch off" now.

[gagzus 20,149]

4 minutes ago, Gorehound said:

Well in the end of the day the song still has to be 'good'.

Good is subjective and personal. But calling it corporate is still baffling.

For example our definitions of "good", could be entirely different.

Edited 9 hours ago by gagzus

[InTheCloset 21,617]

doing p0ppers i think

[Ladle Ghoulash 44,526]

2 minutes ago, gagzus said:

Good is subjective and personal. But calling it corporate is still baffling.

For example our definitions of "good", could be entirely different.

I don’t think it’s *not* corporate, I just don’t think it being corporate in this instance is necessarily a huge problem because it is, in large part, acting as an advertisement for a movie (and it’s very good in that regard, even if it isn’t necessarily a favorite of mine)

[Gorehound 5,446]

27 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I think the issue also boils down to the way that corporatizing results in either the perceived or actual defanging of culture, so some of the reactionary irony is fueled by the Disneyfication of the gay/queer experience and the desire to differentiate yourself from what feels like a somewhat hollowed/overly sanitized stereotype. 

I might be barking up the wrong tree here don't mind me,.. but I think another reason why Queer has become a  stereotyped aesthetic is because not everyone has a feeling of distinct queer identity, or even know how to express that uniquely, so they therefore latch onto already established aesthetics that others have in their groups. I mean look at Goth with their very recognisable aesthetic, or the current Non-Binary style - they all typically have colourful hair, facial piercings and bad fashion etc (no offence). I think it's the same with any movement or culture that it ends up having a stereotypical look and way of being cuz people wanna feel like they belong. It kinda counteracts Queer's concept of "freedom of identity" in some ways.