NYT critics reveals why Beyoncé was not included in their Greatest Songwriters list

[TaylorSwift 162,471]

 

[Borislshere 53,665]

Who tf is calling Beyoncé a songwriter? 

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,105]

As talented as she is, I personally wasn’t wondering why she wasn’t included 

[Lucas 31,129]

59 minutes ago, Borislshere said:

Who tf is calling Beyoncé a songwriter? 

Her delusional fans

[anton 157]

I wish to live in a world where singers can actually write their own lyrics (at least)..... Nowadays there needs to be around five persons to tell us that 'starships are made to fly' and that if you put your hands up you're likely to 'touch the sky' (what for ?)..... 

 

 

 

Edited May 10 by anton

[River 127,482]

They mentioned Ameriican Requiem, so let's break it down.

Writers:

Beyoncé Knowles-Carter, Ernest Wilson, Jon Batiste, Raphael Saadiq, Atia Boggs, Camaron Ochs, Tyler Johnson, Darius Scott, Derek Dixie, Shawn Carter, Michael Price, Dan Walsh, Stephen Stills

Producers:

Beyoncé, No I.D., Batiste, T. Johnson, Khirye Tyler, Dixie, Kuk Harrell

 

Now it contains a sample of Jay's Heart of the City (Ain't No Love), which is sampling  Bobby Blue Bland's Ain't No Love in the Heart of the City.. and funny, but Jay and Kanye are credited as main writers for their song but he was not credited.. so Shawn Carter, Michael Price, Dan Walsh are credited as writers for the sample but not Kanye.. overall, jay's writing credit is undeserved, it's not his song, it's a sample of a sample.

Then Stephen Stills for the sample the Buffalo Springfield song For What It's Worth that he wrote.

So if we accept that these people deserves to be credited as writers because of the samples, minus Jay but that's my opinion.

Why tf all these people had to take part of writing the song:

Beyoncé Knowles-Carter, Ernest Wilson, Jon Batiste, Raphael Saadiq, Atia Boggs, Camaron Ochs, Tyler Johnson, Darius Scott, Derek Dixie

If you need all these people to write a song + using 2 samples.. then you're definitely not a writer, not at all main writer, and your creativity and talent are questionable.

 

[Oriane 22,776]

Now explain why Gaga wasn't included

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,105]

Now explain why Sufjan Stevens wasn’t included.

[Borislshere 53,665]

41 minutes ago, anton said:

I wish to live in a world where singers can actually write their own lyrics (at least)..... Nowadays there needs to be around five persons to tell us that 'starships are made to fly' and that if you put your hands up you're likely to 'touch the sky' (what for ?)..... 

 

 

 

“Nowadays” *proceeds to quote 15 year old song*

[Leography 649]

To me this discussion is almost as stale as "how can this song be good if it doesn't have millions of streams"

I get that it is different, and creativity should be aknowleged for sure, but I don't like a song because it has one or 15 writters, I like it for how it makes me feel. And if we take the exemple of AMERIICAN REQUIEM, that songs to me is one of the best in her discography. Saw the COWBOY CARTER TOUR four times, it made me cry every time. Not once I thought "oh no, this song has too many writters" lmao 
As a Beyoncé fan I know she's in fact more of a curator than a proper songwritter. Her talent definitively lies in her capacity of finding the right people and guide them to execute *HER* laser focused vision for her work. And I don't see why it shouldn't be valid, or why her "creativity and talent are questionnable". She's the mastermind behind her work, she knows what she wants to say, she knows what she wants us to see/hear. We have enough footage and testimonies from her collaborators to know as much. 

[Roughhouse Dandy 13,613]

She is Frank Sinatra plus Quicy Jones plus Kanye West. A modern day composer. Sounds better than "songwriter" anyway. Especially in an age where 30- something year old artists can release solo written songs that sound like middle school diary entries and be hailed as the greatest American songwriter of our time by many. 

Taking any opportunity like this to minimize her skills is tired and has been tired for decades now. 

Edited May 10 by Roughhouse Dandy

[FurankiGaga 75]

Now release The Greatest Music Curators list & I want Beyonce in the top 3

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,105]

19 minutes ago, Roughhouse Dandy said:

She is Frank Sinatra plus Quicy Jones plus Kanye West. A modern day composer. Sounds better than "songwriter" anyway. Especially in an age where 30- something year old artists can release solo written songs that sound like middle school diary entries and be hailed as the greatest American songwriter of our time by many. 

Taking any opportunity like this to minimize her skills is tired and has been tired for decades now. 

Tbf, I wouldn’t put Sinatra on this list if he were alive either (and I also disagree with Taylor Swift’s inclusion). That being said, having a strong musical sensibility isn’t really the same thing as being either or a songwriter or a composer, imo. I think auteur is a fair word for Beyoncé’s skill set, tho.
 

But I agree that a lot of the minimizing is tired. She doesn’t have to be a songwriter per se or composer to be a strong musician. Ella Fitzgerald mostly sang music by Cole Porter, Gershwin et al. and her voice, sensibility, and technical skill as a singer is what makes her a great musician. Beyoncé’s skills as a curator and her vision as an artist (coupled with her being a powerhouse vocalist and performer) are part of the reason why she is an icon, 100%.
 

It’s similar to how I feel about Madonna: she’s clearly heavily involved in crafting her work, shapes the songs, has a vision etc. even if she isn’t necessarily a standalone songwriter or composer. 

Edited May 10 by Ladle Ghoulash

[Roughhouse Dandy 13,613]

11 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Tbf, I wouldn’t put Sinatra on this list if he were alive either (and I also disagree with Taylor Swift’s inclusion). That being said, having a strong musical sensibility isn’t really the same thing as being either or a songwriter or a composer, imo. I think auteur is a fair word for Beyoncé’s skill set, tho.

I wouldn't put him there either. And I agree with you that a strong musical sensibility isn't the same as a songwriter or composer. But she does include lyrics she wrote in her songs and the way (like they mentioned in the posted clip) she can take a guitar riff, a lyric from one artist, a sample from another, a verse from another, a chorus from yet another, and put it all together around an interesting vocal run she came up with makes her a modern day composer at least in my eye. Auteur is definitely a good word for her as well!

Edited May 10 by Roughhouse Dandy

[ChvVolk 2,508]

On 5/10/2026 at 4:15 AM, Leography said:

To me this discussion is almost as stale as "how can this song be good if it doesn't have millions of streams"

I get that it is different, and creativity should be aknowleged for sure, but I don't like a song because it has one or 15 writters, I like it for how it makes me feel. And if we take the exemple of AMERIICAN REQUIEM, that songs to me is one of the best in her discography. Saw the COWBOY CARTER TOUR four times, it made me cry every time. Not once I thought "oh no, this song has too many writters" lmao 
As a Beyoncé fan I know she's in fact more of a curator than a proper songwritter. Her talent definitively lies in her capacity of finding the right people and guide them to execute *HER* laser focused vision for her work. And I don't see why it shouldn't be valid, or why her "creativity and talent are questionnable". She's the mastermind behind her work, she knows what she wants to say, she knows what she wants us to see/hear. We have enough footage and testimonies from her collaborators to know as much. 

This entire discussion isn't about if the song is good or not or how it makes you feel or how creative you think it is, its about why she isn't considered one of the Greatest Songwriters. They don't consider her one because she uses writing camps, samples, other people's demos, to make a song. It isn't that big of deal.