Billie: “You can eat meat. You can love animals. But you can’t do boooooooooth.”

[Old Gregg 46]

27 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I don’t think ethical farming constitutes abuse. 

For quite a while I was a self described "free-range-etarian" where I'd only consume animal products if they were derived from animals who were free range. Then one day i was scrolling facebook where I saw a post showing conditions that are able to be labeled as free range. It was a far cry from the Old MacDonald had a farm type farm I envisioned. It was for sure a step up from the conditions for most animals in animal agriculture, but the conditions were still very much abusive. for instance, even for free range eggs, it's standard for the male chicks to be either suffocated or ground up alive, aka nightmare fuel. 

 

 

Edited April 30 by Old Gregg

[Bebe 17,289]

14 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I don’t think ethical farming constitutes abuse. 

What is your definition of “ethical farming”?

I wonder why everyone is being so vague on what their alternative idea of ethical farming looks like and how it operates.

I endorse farming practices that eliminate unnecessary suffering, that are sustainable and that are the most environmentally friendly as possible. 

The above would be my definition of ethical farming. I think it self evidently eliminates animal agriculture as it is inherently and unavoidably the most environmentally damaging, inefficient and unnecessarily cruel form of farming.

[Old Gregg 46]

18 minutes ago, sarahb said:

"You can't eat meat and love animals too"

Me, looking at my shelves full of non-fiction animal books I've had since I was a kid, nature documentaries, my collection of Zoo Tycoon and animal related games, my fish tanks, my uniform from when I volunteered at an animal sanctuary, my letters opposing development threatening wildlife habitat, my attempt at a marine and wildlife biology degree at uni (damn you maths and chemistry), me visiting zoos everytime I go to a new city and my reputation as the "animal nerd" at school: hmm, well that's a false statement 

i don't doubt you love those animals. but I don't think that knowingly subjecting innocent, sentient creatures to abuse (when it's feasible to avoid) is consistent with loving them. 

[sarahb 17,188]

5 minutes ago, Old Gregg said:

i don't doubt you love those animals. but I don't think that knowingly subjecting innocent, sentient creatures to abuse (when it's feasible to avoid) is consistent with loving them. 

I only eat guilty animals 

[Old Gregg 46]

1 minute ago, sarahb said:

I only eat guilty animals 

lol. not even the douchebag animals deserve such treatment 

[apollorowling 903]

Can someone bring me popcorn? I'm hungry.

[Bebe 17,289]

26 minutes ago, apollorowling said:

Can someone bring me popcorn? I'm hungry.

What a wonderful vegan snack! Glad to hear you have converted 

[SevenWonder 4,748]

I have a good friend who has written about 20 books on veganism. He's a lowkey celeb in that world.

He claims all the time that he wishes most vegans would chill when "preaching" veganism. They ruin any chance of converts. So pompous, so holier-than-though, so aggressive and, worse, so ineffective. 

While he is full blown vegan, what he really wants is to limit meat/animal product consumption. Take two days off a week from chicken. Or no red meat for one month. Things like that. It's just more doable. Of course, he'd love for everyone to go vegan, but he knows most just won't. At least not right away. 

Because he's kind, gracious and non-judgmental about my meat eating, I've actually chosen to eliminate pork from my diet, as well as dairy milk. I did it on my terms, for my own reasons, and certainly not because he tried to make me feel guilty. He doesn't constantly ask me to now give up eggs or cheese or chicken. I appreciate that. 

We also wrote a novel together that's getting published later this year! Yes, animals are the focal point of the story!  

 

 

 

 

[50 Ft Queenie 640]

WHY can’t she say “you cant support the factory farming industrial complex and love animals” USA CREATED this poisonous practice where Billie is from!

 

[nATAH 57,035]

17 pages oh what did i miss honnay

[Horny Chicken 10,935]

3 hours ago, SevenWonder said:

I have a good friend who has written about 20 books on veganism. He's a lowkey celeb in that world.

He claims all the time that he wishes most vegans would chill when "preaching" veganism. They ruin any chance of converts. So pompous, so holier-than-though, so aggressive and, worse, so ineffective. 

While he is full blown vegan, what he really wants is to limit meat/animal product consumption. Take two days off a week from chicken. Or no red meat for one month. Things like that. It's just more doable. Of course, he'd love for everyone to go vegan, but he knows most just won't. At least not right away. 

Because he's kind, gracious and non-judgmental about my meat eating, I've actually chosen to eliminate pork from my diet, as well as dairy milk. I did it on my terms, for my own reasons, and certainly not because he tried to make me feel guilty. He doesn't constantly ask me to now give up eggs or cheese or chicken. I appreciate that. 

We also wrote a novel together that's getting published later this year! Yes, animals are the focal point of the story!  

 

 

 

 

I drink oat milk (yes I like it) and have soy yoghurt everyday. I also eat tofu curry once or twice a week. I have multiple animals as pets and I’m close with people who do environmental conservation. None of us is ever going to give up meat. Animals have been food for us for over 100 000 years. 

Some people can’t see they’re hurting their own cause by refusing to meet in the middle. If the majority of humans refuse to give up meat, perhaps it’s more productive to find a solution that works for what most people want. Trying to completely eliminate suffering isn’t realistic right now. Maybe in 10 000 years if we’re still here. 

 

Edited April 30 by Horny Chicken

[apollorowling 903]

5 hours ago, Bebe said:

What a wonderful vegan snack! Glad to hear you have converted 

Bacon popcorn it's do good 💋

[LukiiGleek 212]

She can have her perspective and everybody else can have their own. Her rules apply to her not me

[Dutchmonster92 220]

She is right though 😅 

[AsleepOnTheCeiling 6,974]

On 4/28/2026 at 5:56 PM, PartySick said:

I think you're hitting on the nuance of the issue.

Billie's quote here is gonna be taken very literally. "Eating ANY meat means you don't love animals". Idk if that's actually what she means but either way, that's just ridiculous. You can care about the welfare of animals, even livestock raised specifically to become food, and still eat what humans have been eating since before we were even humans.***

It's the industry itself that's evil. A lot of us are pretty powerless to change it other than giving our votes to politicians who promise to push back against the barbaric way they're run.

In the meantime, some people still buy meat and that's ok. A dietary choice isn't a moral choice when moral options are stripped away from consumers by corporations that have significant power. 

 

***A lot of vegans are correct that even though eating meat is natural and meat has been part of humanity's diet for literally millions of years, our society is at a point where we can make other choices to fill nutritional needs. But you can't force people to make those choices and it doesn't make somebody a bad person just 'cause they have a steak every now and then.

If this wasn't how Billie felt about it she's had years to clarify it, this is a repeat statement she's made. It's also an interesting statement considering she sells variants of her albums and physical copies to begin with. Even if she is forced to do that by her label, she could easily tank her career on purpose to minimize those sales. But she likes the comfort, money, and fame more than she likes to pretend she loves animals.  

On 4/28/2026 at 10:12 PM, Bebe said:

Natural =\= moral. I also take issue with your premise that eating meat "fulfill's a primary, instinctual need" or that you have no choice. Plenty of people live on plant based diets either due to culture formed from a scarcity of meat options and/or abundance of plants or because of moral objections or environmental reasons.

We know a vegan diet comes with reduced risk of chronic illnesses such as obesity, cancer, type 2 diabetes, and heart disease. So eating meat isn't a "need".  

It sounds like what you witnessed at the slaughterhouse wasn't positive it it came away with you describing "deteriorating conditions in which animals are raised".

I agree that the meat industry is unsustainable, and I'm glad to hear you are "critical of the system". Why not encourage to move to a method of food production that is plant based?

We know it has better outcomes for the environment, we know it's more efficient (70–80% of soy goes to animal feed in the US, 1/3 of all crops grown globally are used as animal feed) and we also know it's more ethical by eliminating unnecessary animal suffering.

To counter your health outcomes argument: Osteoporosis, Depression,  Vitamin deficiency (leading to cancer) are all associated with veganism and vegetarianism.  You can say that vitamin supplements can resolve most of those issues but in the same vein eating meat in moderation can also lead to better health outcomes for those dealing with obesity, heart disease, etc. Also, plenty of studies surrounding positive health outcomes for veganism and vegetarianism don't account for socioeconomic status, which is also linked to physical activity, alcohol/drug consumption, smoking, etc. So it's hard to definitively prove that a vegan diet itself leads to better health outcomes. 

On 4/29/2026 at 3:35 AM, Bebe said:

 

""You can't say you love nature when acres and acres of forest are being chopped down to grow YOUR soy beans!!"

See how stupid that sounds?""

 

Yes - it would sound stupid considering 80% of the soy beans grown in the US are grown to feed animals so they can then be slaughtered and eaten.

The vegan diet is often cited as the largest way to cut your environmental footprint, including greenhouse gases, land use, and water pollution. If you supported the environment then the best diet to support would be a vegan diet.

What regulations on the meat industry do you support that "curb both its impact on the environment and to curb the cruelty aspect"?

As noted above, eliminating the meat industry would certainly have the highest positive impact on the environment. Would seemingly also have the most significant impact on eliminating cruelty as well considering animals would stop being slaughtered.

My biggest gripe with your argument here is that you go on to say "other people's experiences don't limit your ability to become a vegan" but you generalize an individual's impact on the environment on a regional scale. 80% of soybeans in the US are grown for animal consumption but we as individuals don't grow 80% of the soybeans. The street does go both ways so if we generalize stats to a 9 figure population then we are talking about the experiences of a 9 figure population. 

 

Policies to support humane treatment of animals aren't hard to think of. The easiest one would be to not allow tax write-offs for food waste. It would reduce the amount of land used to farm the food for livestock as well as reduce the number of livestock needed overall. It would also reduce the carbon impact of logistics supporting the meat industry. Another policy would be to regulate food labeling standards better. Yet another would be to increase nutrition education funding. 

On 4/29/2026 at 6:01 AM, Bebe said:

Yes true - you’ve provided examples of different vitamins that are harder to digest not vitamins that are absent. Still possible to get enough iron, D2 and Omega-3 from a relatively cheap vegan diet.

You acted very confident in your assertions that there are barriers for people living in poverty to access vegan food, so I assumed a level of understanding on the topic of nutrition in vegan diets. I didn’t feel the need to explain the point of singling out B-12.

Would you like to explain your point then? You mentioned accessibility issues for people living in poverty. I’ve personally been in times when I’ve had to survive on a diet of legumes, frozen vegetables, canned tomatoes, coconut milk, tofu, pasta, rice, bread, peanut butter and trusty herbs and spices. Not only was this an extremely cheap diet but it was healthier than the VAST majority of people in the US. It was also surprisingly varied.

I was in a fortunate enough situation to be able to afford my B-12 supplement, as a luxury of course, however even if I wasn’t able the above would still be true. 

You can be living under the poverty line and be vegan. If you cannot meet all your nutritional needs as a vegan due to your financial situation then you cannot meet all your nutritional requirements as a non-vegan. 
 

if you cannot concede this point then there is no point to me continuing to sit here and see you continue to mention people on SNAP as if veganism can’t be one of the cheapest diets available for people.

How do you address the unnecessary plastic waste of supplements? 1.8 billion plastic supplement bottles are sold in the US every year.

Also, do you grow all of your own food? Because fertilizers used to farm fruits and vegetables are derived from animal waste. Produce that is out of season at any given time is also regularly transported via air, impacting GHG. 

How do you justify the use of internet and other electronics given that the energy sector accounts for 76% of GHG and that rare  earth mineral mining has significant impact on soil quality, water toxicity, and wildlife habitat destruction?