Billie: “You can eat meat. You can love animals. But you can’t do boooooooooth.”

[apollorowling 903]

5 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Yeah I've had friends backpack around Latin America in the last 12 months (some still there) and the deprivation they are seeing is insane compared to what other friends saw like 5-10 years ago

Yes, it's horrible. Here in Uruguay there's a lot of immigration from Venezuela, and I've made friends who tell me awful things. The monthly salary is $3. $3!!! Sometimes I invite them to different foods because they've never even had basic experiences like eating a croissant; they didn't even know what a croissant was.

[Bebe 17,289]

Just now, apollorowling said:

Good for You! Maybe next time you could write how one can be vegan in Venezuela for example, when the month salary it's 3 dollars.

Are you living in Venezuela living in extreme poverty?

Nobody is arguing against the idea that if you need to eat meat to survive you should. 

Stop arguing a straw man and engage critically. You have not once been able to justify why animals should suffer and die for your diet when there are other alternatives.

[elegidadedios 4,903]

3 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Girl I’m not American.

I’ve made my position very clear on the situation of those eating meat for survival reasons - which is that it is acceptable?

Let’s not pretend you are eating pigeons though - let’s be real. You can become vegan! You’re not in that situation.

I live in Spain and people do eat pigeons

...yikes... Not even that point was correct

[elegidadedios 4,903]

Just now, Bebe said:

Are you living in Venezuela living in extreme poverty?

Omfg you are SO out of touch I knew you'd say something like that

[Bronco 25,131]

1 minute ago, Bebe said:

Girl I’m not American.

I’ve made my position very clear on the situation of those eating meat for survival reasons - which is that it is acceptable?

Let’s not pretend you are eating pigeons though - let’s be real. You can become vegan! You’re not in that situation.

Did I claim to be eating pigeons? No.

Hun, if you aren't American. You're even worse than I thought. I can understand ignorance of non-western life from Americans but it now looks like you've got no excuse for your ignorance. 

And it is very clear what your position is. A get out clause to try and absolve you from moral dilemma as you preach the flawed gospel. 

But here's the thing - you repeatedly try to claim you've made your stance on people eating for survival.  But you only do it after trying to mock those in poverty making those choices. 

You've repeatedly tried to build a moral high ground to occupy within this thread while treating the concept of poverty as a point of derision that people are discussing purely because they aren't as righteous as you. 

[elegidadedios 4,903]

2 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

I need to push back on some of you. 

You absolutely CAN engage in veganism without believing humans are the same as animals or any of the other dogma. 

For instance, you CAN choose oat milk with your coffee, you CAN choose to cut back on animal products. 

Of course not every single person has the access or choice, but you don’t have to label yourself a vegan to participate in vegan choices  

Agreed, I just said the main principle in veganism is. My best friend is vegan and she doesn't consider humans the same to animals

[apollorowling 903]

1 minute ago, Bebe said:

Are you living in Venezuela living in extreme poverty?

Nobody is arguing against the idea that if you need to eat meat to survive you should. 

Stop arguing a straw man and engage critically. You have not once been able to justify why animals should suffer and die for your diet when there are other alternatives.

NO, BUT I'M FROM URUGUAY WHERE THE MINIMUM WAGE IS $625 AND THE BASIC FOOD BASKET COSTS $1600. HOW THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT ME TO BE VEGAN? WHAT PART DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? YOU'RE DRIVING ME CRAZY, YOU'RE JUST IGNORANT, IGNORANT, IGNORANT, AND IGNORANT.

[Bronco 25,131]

2 minutes ago, Bebe said:

You have not once been able to justify why animals should suffer and die for your diet when there are other alternatives.

That ain't the debate topic though.

The debate of this thread is the binarism of Billie Eillish's statement. 

The subject of how poverty impacts what people are able to eat to survive is absolutely relevant to the discussion of the binary stand point that this thread was born from. 

[Bebe 17,289]

1 minute ago, elegidadedios said:

Omfg you are SO out of touch I knew you'd say something like that

Are you following though? Because we established on like … page two or something that it is acceptable to eat meat in survival situations.

Stop arguing against a position nobody holds. You are not living in extreme poverty why are you not vegan?

 

[elegidadedios 4,903]

Just now, Bebe said:

Are you following though? Because we established on like … page two or something that it is acceptable to eat meat in survival situations.

Stop arguing against a position nobody holds. You are not living in extreme poverty why are you not vegan?

 

"We established that it is aceptable to eat meat in survival situations" first of all who is "WE" and second you're not in the position to establish a single thing, for god's sake. It's just your personal take. Period. Full stop.

[Morphine Prince 109,683]

Veganism is a an active CHOICE in a world not designed for veganism. 

I don’t think anyone is seriously blaming poor people for not being vegan. 

[elegidadedios 4,903]

2 minutes ago, Bebe said:

You are not living in extreme poverty why are you not vegan?

Because I'm Hitler that's why

[Bronco 25,131]

Just now, Morphine Prince said:

Veganism is a an active CHOICE in a world not designed for veganism. 

I don’t think anyone is seriously blaming poor people for not being vegan. 

I'll agree with your first statement.

But when a user has repeatedly tried to dismiss discussion of issues people face due to wealth inequality as hypothetical extremism then the second statement is just not true. 

[apollorowling 903]

1 minute ago, Morphine Prince said:

Veganism is a an active CHOICE in a world not designed for veganism. 

I don’t think anyone is seriously blaming poor people for not being vegan. 

Excuse me, but it would seem that for BEBE, IF YOU ARE NOT POOR AND YOU ARE FROM THE MIDDLE CLASS YOU SHOULD ALREADY BE VEGAN.

[Bebe 17,289]

Just now, Bronco said:

That ain't the debate topic though.

The debate of this thread is the binarism of Billie Eillish's statement. 

The subject of how poverty impacts what people are able to eat to survive is absolutely relevant to the discussion of the binary stand point that this thread was born from. 

Billie Eilish doesn’t need to qualify every statement she makes with “unless you are stuck on an island with no other food and a pig or if you are unable to access any other food and need to hunt rats and pigeons to survive”. It’s ludicrous. 
 

I’m against cannibalism but nobody is going to jump to quote me and argue that some people have had to eat human flesh in survival situations. People would know what I mean and wouldn’t argue a straw man. 
 

It isn’t true that everybody in this thread is not living in these extreme examples of poverty. We all know this - people are arguing about barriers faced by those in a level of extreme poverty to justify their OWN diet.