Juniper 976 Posted Tuesday at 07:08 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:08 PM Billionaires shouldn’t exist. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegidadedios 2,231 Posted Tuesday at 07:15 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:15 PM (edited) 17 hours ago, tlittlemonster said: When you live in a society where most of the wealth is distributed, people get unmotivated to work and innovate, which reduces massively the total wealth produced by a given country Do you know that wealth does not instantly equal actual money? People living in a society within well distributed wealth (properties, minimum wages, and most importantly, means of production) can still make lots of money. Tired of the "unmotivated to work", once again, that's a marketed illusion. Because I can tell you by a fact that people work with no motivation, most of them (us) do it just to earn a living. Nevertheless, economy does not work like that. Well distributed wealth does not automatically mean massive loss of total wealth, because as I previously said, total wealth comes to the extension of all the living people, it does not necessarily depends on how much work people put in. It's already there with means of production. I would like to not go into the "communist countries" part because any serious sociologist would tell you that's not the case in any scenario as economical politics directed towards communism has not been applied yet in any country (sadly, if you ask me). The so called communist countries you talking about simply take ideas from it to run a repressive system, which does not make them actually communist. In fact, they still suffer from american exploitation in previous decades because they were economical colonies. And they're just getting out of it still (early stages of capitalism). But, once again, I'd like to keep my opinion on that as private as possible because I know how controversial this is. Edited Wednesday at 12:19 PM by elegidadedios 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlittlemonster 1,689 Posted Tuesday at 07:17 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:17 PM 19 minutes ago, lastpopicon said: And seeing people who I deem very intelligent saying how countries like china are doing a good things by controlling the economy and everything by the state apparatus, it worries me deeply. The state is not your friend, and an absolutist state that controls private enterprise and most aspects of business is not democracy, it's tyranny. Maybe I'm out of touch but we are in for wild times if even the intelligent people are swayed by propaganda, and admittedly very bad propaganda. If only people knew that when you're born in a given state in China, it's almost impossible to move to a different state, and there are cameras on you 24/7 People genuinely have no clue Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlittlemonster 1,689 Posted Tuesday at 07:21 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:21 PM 2 minutes ago, elegidadedios said: Do you know that wealth does not instantly equal actual money? People living in a society within well distributed wealth (properties, minimun wages, and most importantly, means of production) can still make lots of money. Tired of the "unmotivated to work", once again, that's a marketed illusion. Because I can tell you by a fact that people work with no motivation, most of them (us) do it just to earn a living. Nevertheless, economy does not work like that. Well distributed wealth does not automatically mean massive loss of total wealth, because as I previously said, total wealth comes to the extension of all the living people, it does not necessarily depends on how much work people put in. It's already there with means of production. I would like to not go into the "communist countries" part because any serious sociologist would tell you that's not the case in any scenario as economical politics directed towards communism has not been applied yet in any country (sadly, if you ask me). The so called communist countries you talking about simply takes ideas from it to run a repressive system, which does not make them actually communist. In fact, they still suffer from american exploitation in previous decades because they were economical colonies. And they're just getting out of it still. But, once again, I'd like to keep my opinion on that as private as possible because I know how controversial this is. I just want to ask you then what is the ideal society model in your opinion? And what current country is the closest to that system? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegidadedios 2,231 Posted Tuesday at 07:26 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:26 PM 3 minutes ago, tlittlemonster said: I just want to ask you then what is the ideal society model in your opinion? And what current country is the closest to that system? 1. A socialist country within social economy: means of production redirected to a collective property. Market socialism. 2. The closest would be China (ONLY economic wise) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegidadedios 2,231 Posted Tuesday at 07:30 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:30 PM 12 minutes ago, tlittlemonster said: If only people knew that when you're born in a given state in China, it's almost impossible to move to a different state, and there are cameras on you 24/7 People genuinely have no clue To make things clear, that's why I said in my previous post only economic wise. I despite social politics in there. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco 11,888 Posted Tuesday at 07:56 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:56 PM 36 minutes ago, tlittlemonster said: If only people knew that when you're born in a given state in China, it's almost impossible to move to a different state, and there are cameras on you 24/7 People genuinely have no clue If you think state surveillance doesn't exist in the west, I have some bad news for you. The only difference in terms of surveillance between east and west is who benefits from the surveillance. In China, the state controls the apparatus and uses it to ensure its longevity. In the west, the state has had increasing control ever since the Vietnam war taught them they can't not do it. And the market has also started doing it and then selling it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegidadedios 2,231 Posted Tuesday at 08:03 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:03 PM 3 minutes ago, Bronco said: If you think state surveillance doesn't exist in the west, I have some bad news for you. The only difference in terms of surveillance between east and west is who benefits from the surveillance. In China, the state controls the apparatus and uses it to ensure its longevity. In the west, the state has had increasing control ever since the Vietnam war taught them they can't not do it. And the market has also started doing it and then selling it. I mean, calling out China for using "cameras everywhere" (meaning freedom of movement is damaged) when we have Trump deploying soldiers to censor a protest march is... Wild. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reject False Icons 4,775 Posted Tuesday at 08:10 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:10 PM (edited) No and another thing that’s on the same track is tour grossing we shouldn’t celebrate, it directly affects us, from Ticketmaster shady practices and live nation monopoly. Those 2 companies made concert tickets a hell to get and immensely expensive, why should we celebrate new grossing records beaten when most of us can’t get to the show Edited Tuesday at 08:12 PM by Reject False Icons 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco 11,888 Posted Tuesday at 08:20 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:20 PM 3 minutes ago, Reject False Icons said: No and another thing that’s on the same track is tour grossing we shouldn’t celebrate, it directly affects us, from Ticketmaster shady practices and live nation monopoly. Those 2 companies made concert tickets a hell to get and immensely expensive, why should we celebrate new grossing records beaten when most of us can’t get to the show And ticketmaster/live nation is a perfect example of how the market and a focus on wealth accumulation doesn't actually promote innovation as some have claimed in this thread. As the ticketmaster/livenation monopoly expands we're seeing worse consumer experiences. Digital infrastructure that isn't improved and is incredibly dated and struggles to work. Physical venue infrastructure that isn't improved upon, venue offerings that are limited in range and overpriced. Concert tickets costing more and more even for obstructed views and anti-consumer practices like not using the ring screens at SoFi and charging extra to use them. VIP packages where the package contents have been getting progressively cheaper (a 2017 P!nk tour vip package came with a resuable drawstring bag, branded powerbank and fullsized branded pillowcase - the 2023 vip package came with a friendship bracelet & a keyring). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyEnigma 1,259 Posted Tuesday at 08:20 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:20 PM I mean yes, she does work hard and has earned her wealth, but that doesn't take away the issue of NO ONE should have that much and if they accrue it, they should redistribute it through things like donations/charity + large scale improvements in the world around you. Even things artist specific, such as billionaire artists should NEVER have sweat shops producing low quality bulk merch while spending in excess for their personal closet and collection of purses/shoes yk. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlittlemonster 1,689 Posted Tuesday at 08:32 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:32 PM 34 minutes ago, Bronco said: If you think state surveillance doesn't exist in the west, I have some bad news for you. The only difference in terms of surveillance between east and west is who benefits from the surveillance. In China, the state controls the apparatus and uses it to ensure its longevity. In the west, the state has had increasing control ever since the Vietnam war taught them they can't not do it. And the market has also started doing it and then selling it. Still rather live in the UK than in China All my Chinese friends tell me the same Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlittlemonster 1,689 Posted Tuesday at 08:34 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:34 PM 29 minutes ago, elegidadedios said: I mean, calling out China for using "cameras everywhere" (meaning freedom of movement is damaged) when we have Trump deploying soldiers to censor a protest march is... Wild. I'm from the UK btw My comment was a comparison between my Chinese friend's experience in China Vs the UK Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco 11,888 Posted Tuesday at 08:38 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:38 PM 3 minutes ago, tlittlemonster said: Still rather live in the UK than in China All my Chinese friends tell me the same And if you speak to UK expats, they say what? That they'd rather not live in the UK. The grass is always greener. The UK is on the verge of a total social collapse after a decade of austerity has left every single state system bankrupt and failing. Lets see if you still want to live here by the end of the decade. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlittlemonster 1,689 Posted Tuesday at 08:42 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:42 PM 1 minute ago, Bronco said: And if you speak to UK expats, they say what? That they'd rather not live in the UK. The grass is always greener. The UK is on the verge of a total social collapse after a decade of austerity has left every single state system bankrupt and failing. Lets see if you still want to live here by the end of the decade. I don't know any UK expats who would rather live in China. Exactly, the grass is always greener, hence I'm sure you'd still rather live here in the UK than in China. I'm not saying one country is better than the other, I'm just saying many people from Western countries take certain freedoms, customs etc. for granted. And you're right, things in the UK are not great either, couldn't agree more. But, would you rather live in China right now? Do you want to move there? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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