Madonna reacts to narratives of other women copying her

[MadArchitect 884]

6 hours ago, Windowlicker said:

Wait until you read this:
 

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What do you think of Courtney Love?

[Laughs] I knew you were going to ask me that question.

 

So you probably have a statement prepared.

I do. I do. I rehearsed it. No, I think she’s supremely talented. I really do. When Maverick first started, we tried to sign her. But I think that drugs have destroyed her brain, or they are slowly destroying her. I am fascinated by her, but the same way I am by somebody who’s got Tourette’s syndrome walking in Central Park. I want to stop and just watch their human behaviour. She fascinates me on that level. I don’t know. I feel sorry for her. I really do, and I know if she reads this, she’ll be slagging me off online for the next eight months. I do think she knows not what she says.

It’s true for old people who go around spewing venom on people, that deep down inside, they’re hurt, they’re sad, lonely, whatever. Kurt Loder interviewed me after the MTV Awards, after I won some award, and I was sitting up on a platform on the street. About five minutes into the interview, a compact went sailing over my head. I thought someone on the street was throwing things at me. And I hear this gravelly voice, and then we looked down and it’s Courtney, and she’s throwing makeup out of her purse at us, and it’s just missing our heads. And Kurt invites her up.

Now, I know Kurt invited her up because there’s all this hyped-up bullshit how we have been feuding for years and years, and I think he wanted to see a catfight. She was babbling about 25 different things. And at one point, she did grab my arm and said something to me like. ” ’94 sucked, but ’95’s going to be better, isn’t it?” And in that one moment I looked in her eyes and felt her vulnerability and her sadness and I felt bad for her. I felt that she was trying to reach out to me, even though at every chance she gets, she slags me off in the press. Years ago, she probably admired me and looked up to me, and now I’m like a parent to her or something, and she wants to destroy me. So, that’s what I think about Courtney [laughs].

 

Why don’t other successful women in pop – the Whitneys and Mariahs – speak out for the things they believe in?

Well, pop is short for popular and to remain popular you can’t have a point of view or be outspoken. To remain popular you can’t go against the grain. Janis Joplin, at this time, in this world would not be a popular artist. Chrissie Hynde doesn’t sell as many records as somebody like Mariah Carey. And that’s because Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston don’t have a ****ing point of view.

 

Whitney had one about you, didn’t she – she said that she’d kill her children if they turned out like you.

Madonna arches her brows coolly. “I’ve never heard either of them say anything horrible about me. But if they have, it’s completely transparent why. It would be based on jealousy of the fact that I have a point of view. I think that it’s an artist’s responsibility to have a point of view. Society takes its cue from popular art. People need something to look to, something to provoke them into questioning whether they completely hate something or completely love something. Perhaps somebody like Mariah Carey wishes she could make that happen. On the other hand,” she smiles nastily, “if you’re not terribly bright I suppose that you don’t really give a damn.”

 

You’ve said that certain of the next generation of female artists, in particular Courtney Love, have denounced you only because, “they want their independence… like a child does from a parent.” Why should they see you as this Big Bad Momma figure?

Because I paved the way for them, I absolutely paved the way for people like Courtney Love and Liz Phair. Just as Debbie Harry paved the way for me.

 

Did you ever denounce Debbie Harry?

No. But I’m not a drug addict and I don’t hate myself.

 

Are you disappointed that Time Warner jettisoned Interscope? Shouldn’t a company whose main product is artistic expression stand up for its artists?

I think when you’re fed a steady diet of crap, you come to expect it after a while. But art is not really a very important part of our culture any more. I was talking to k.d. lang about it last night. I don’t want to get into slagging off other artists, but we were talking about her record versus someone like Mariah Carey’s — and I think she’s a very talented singer — but we have to realize that the same country that acquitted O.J. is the same country that makes a complete piece of **** movie No. 1, that buys Mariah Carey records. It’s this homogeneity. But it’s got nothing to do with art.

wow, i kinda see some of her points, but the way she is so patronizing and she thinks she's all that disruptive compared to other artists and she is their main influence enough to feel entitled to aknowledgement, delusion and ego to the roof. I really don't see any strong Madonna influence in Cortney, why does it not cross her mind that it was Debbie Harry who paved the way for Courtney instead? i see that much more. Also her low key poking fun at Courtney drug addiction problems as a way to undermine her good judgement in regards of who inspired her as an artist, crazy, it's like "ohh you don't like me and don't give me credit, it must be because you're a drug addict and you hate yourself" i really dislike her the more are read her interviews

[MadArchitect 884]

12 hours ago, Windowlicker said:

Nah, it wasn't Interscope's doing. Madonna has said for years she never actually had a problem with Gaga, just that she felt the songs were similar. She wasn't even upset by it, and frequently mentioned Gaga positively at the time in other interviews. But if Madonna is gonna do anything, it's turn something into an opportunity for press. So she leaned into the so-called feud in hopes she could reunite with Gaga on stage, which is why she did "Born This Way" on her tour in the first place.

A lot of Gaga fans seem to forget this whole thing only started because Gaga got on TV and said Madonna gave her approval for "Born This Way" when the song first came out, only for Madonna's rep to put out a statement the very next day saying that never happened. Then Gaga flipped and had a meltdown in an interview when she was asked about it. I don't think Madonna believed Gaga would take the whole thing so personally, but I think Gaga was overwhelmed and feeling the weight of her own fame back then and Madonna adding to that pile wasn't what she needed.

But it's been water under the bridge between them for years now, so it's always funny how fans on both sides continue to hold onto it.

Whatt?? when did Gaga flipped and had a meltdown over being asked about the email situation? which interview was that? as far as know that situation was never addressed by Gaga, she said she emailed Madonna's team and they replied approving Born This Way and giving support, then the next day these unnamed madonna representatives came to the press saying they were unaware of any emails, and then it died right there, i still doubt the legitimacy of those supposed reps. like who can confirm that? Madonna never addressed that topic herself either. That was not the reason the feud started at all, it was Just Madonna alone fueling the fire, being petty and undermining Gaga's artristry with the reductive comment, then using the BTW/EY medley, and mentioning Gaga multiple times on tour being butthurt she couldn't join her to sing with her lol

Edited April 17 by MadArchitect

[River 114,810]

7 hours ago, Windowlicker said:

Wait until you read this:
 

  Hide contents

What do you think of Courtney Love?

[Laughs] I knew you were going to ask me that question.

 

So you probably have a statement prepared.

I do. I do. I rehearsed it. No, I think she’s supremely talented. I really do. When Maverick first started, we tried to sign her. But I think that drugs have destroyed her brain, or they are slowly destroying her. I am fascinated by her, but the same way I am by somebody who’s got Tourette’s syndrome walking in Central Park. I want to stop and just watch their human behaviour. She fascinates me on that level. I don’t know. I feel sorry for her. I really do, and I know if she reads this, she’ll be slagging me off online for the next eight months. I do think she knows not what she says.

It’s true for old people who go around spewing venom on people, that deep down inside, they’re hurt, they’re sad, lonely, whatever. Kurt Loder interviewed me after the MTV Awards, after I won some award, and I was sitting up on a platform on the street. About five minutes into the interview, a compact went sailing over my head. I thought someone on the street was throwing things at me. And I hear this gravelly voice, and then we looked down and it’s Courtney, and she’s throwing makeup out of her purse at us, and it’s just missing our heads. And Kurt invites her up.

Now, I know Kurt invited her up because there’s all this hyped-up bullshit how we have been feuding for years and years, and I think he wanted to see a catfight. She was babbling about 25 different things. And at one point, she did grab my arm and said something to me like. ” ’94 sucked, but ’95’s going to be better, isn’t it?” And in that one moment I looked in her eyes and felt her vulnerability and her sadness and I felt bad for her. I felt that she was trying to reach out to me, even though at every chance she gets, she slags me off in the press. Years ago, she probably admired me and looked up to me, and now I’m like a parent to her or something, and she wants to destroy me. So, that’s what I think about Courtney [laughs].

 

Why don’t other successful women in pop – the Whitneys and Mariahs – speak out for the things they believe in?

Well, pop is short for popular and to remain popular you can’t have a point of view or be outspoken. To remain popular you can’t go against the grain. Janis Joplin, at this time, in this world would not be a popular artist. Chrissie Hynde doesn’t sell as many records as somebody like Mariah Carey. And that’s because Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston don’t have a ****ing point of view.

 

Whitney had one about you, didn’t she – she said that she’d kill her children if they turned out like you.

Madonna arches her brows coolly. “I’ve never heard either of them say anything horrible about me. But if they have, it’s completely transparent why. It would be based on jealousy of the fact that I have a point of view. I think that it’s an artist’s responsibility to have a point of view. Society takes its cue from popular art. People need something to look to, something to provoke them into questioning whether they completely hate something or completely love something. Perhaps somebody like Mariah Carey wishes she could make that happen. On the other hand,” she smiles nastily, “if you’re not terribly bright I suppose that you don’t really give a damn.”

 

You’ve said that certain of the next generation of female artists, in particular Courtney Love, have denounced you only because, “they want their independence… like a child does from a parent.” Why should they see you as this Big Bad Momma figure?

Because I paved the way for them, I absolutely paved the way for people like Courtney Love and Liz Phair. Just as Debbie Harry paved the way for me.

 

Did you ever denounce Debbie Harry?

No. But I’m not a drug addict and I don’t hate myself.

 

Are you disappointed that Time Warner jettisoned Interscope? Shouldn’t a company whose main product is artistic expression stand up for its artists?

I think when you’re fed a steady diet of crap, you come to expect it after a while. But art is not really a very important part of our culture any more. I was talking to k.d. lang about it last night. I don’t want to get into slagging off other artists, but we were talking about her record versus someone like Mariah Carey’s — and I think she’s a very talented singer — but we have to realize that the same country that acquitted O.J. is the same country that makes a complete piece of **** movie No. 1, that buys Mariah Carey records. It’s this homogeneity. But it’s got nothing to do with art.

lol I know this one it was so wild

I remember I had a weekly teen magazine that translated all the interviews and I just ate gossips weekly, so fun 

[RenegAde 18,946]

8 hours ago, Windowlicker said:

Nah, it wasn't Interscope's doing. Madonna has said for years she never actually had a problem with Gaga, just that she felt the songs were similar. She wasn't even upset by it, and frequently mentioned Gaga positively at the time in other interviews. But if Madonna is gonna do anything, it's turn something into an opportunity for press. So she leaned into the so-called feud in hopes she could reunite with Gaga on stage, which is why she did "Born This Way" on her tour in the first place.

A lot of Gaga fans seem to forget this whole thing only started because Gaga got on TV and said Madonna gave her approval for "Born This Way" when the song first came out, only for Madonna's rep to put out a statement the very next day saying that never happened. Then Gaga flipped and had a meltdown in an interview when she was asked about it. I don't think Madonna believed Gaga would take the whole thing so personally, but I think Gaga was overwhelmed and feeling the weight of her own fame back then and Madonna adding to that pile wasn't what she needed.

But it's been water under the bridge between them for years now, so it's always funny how fans on both sides continue to hold onto it.

Thank you

Gaga fans hold grudges against the wrong people. Madonna never spoke about gaga in the demeaning way that some of their faves likes lana del rey and azealia banks have yet some users almost worship them but act like Madonna was so out of line and irredeemable 

[monketsharona 79,564]

I kinda feel like she lowkey admits she made a mistake.

Maybe wrong I feel like something switched lately in her. With Elton and her making up and more.

[Monstermilo 4,392]

she stoked the flames of the fued with that reductive sht and also shading gaga on her tour performing BTW and several other times where she mentioned gaga in interviews. 

she thought she could bully gaga into irrelevance but clearly thats not the case, we all know gaga's a pop titan here to stay. 

happy theyve gotten over the fued and we can all move on, but let us not forget how shady madonnas been to not just gaga but several pop stars over the decades. im happy it looks like shes finally matured at the ripe age of 66. never too late to change. 

Edited April 17 by Monstermilo

[Monstermilo 4,392]

2 hours ago, elijahfan said:

And God forbid a woman shows some growth, apparently.

growth after 40 years of shading everyone from mariah carey, whitney to lady gaga???? girl we can forgive but we do not have to forget how nasty shes been to any woman whos been a threat to her throne. like if it was one or two instances of being shady fine, but nah its been decades. 

she called whitney Houston one of the greatest vocalists of our generation "horribly mediocre" 

and said mariah careys "not particularly bright, and i would rather k*ll myself than be mariah carey" 

you cannot spend decades being horrible to other women and just expect people to completely erase her terrible behavior..... 

Edited April 17 by Monstermilo

[Guillaume Hamon 6,407]

2 hours ago, RenegAde said:

Gaga fans hold grudges against the wrong people. Madonna never spoke about gaga in the demeaning way that some of their faves likes lana del rey and azealia banks have yet some users almost worship them but act like Madonna was so out of line and irredeemable 

Madonna made this BTW/ Express yourself medley and added a song, she's not me, at the end.

This conclusion had lyrics as demeaning as it f*cking gets lol.

[Sepsami 18,719]

Whale whale how the turns have tabled

[Guillaume Hamon 6,407]

10 hours ago, Windowlicker said:

A lot of Gaga fans seem to forget this whole thing only started because Gaga got on TV and said Madonna gave her approval for "Born This Way" when the song first came out, only for Madonna's rep to put out a statement the very next day saying that never happened.

Weird that she would take the risk to lie publicly like that when they just have to say it's false and make her look so bad.

Maybe they made a vague nice comment on the song and didn't like it to be presented as an approval in the midst of copy accusations?

But I doubt she full on made up the mail lol.

10 hours ago, Windowlicker said:

Then Gaga flipped and had a meltdown in an interview when she was asked about it.

You talk about the unaired Perez itw that stopped their friendship?

I'm not sure if it was confirmed it was the subject that stopped the itw but wouldn't it be her best friend betraying her ( whatever the subject ) making her sad?

[rinasawachanta 3,017]

9 hours ago, palma said:

I’m as big of a Madonna fan as the next millennial homosexual but drag her 

I kind of feel that although she wants to appear as a girls girl, old habits die hard and she felt the need to bring herself up after seeing Gaga in her prime, absolutely dominating the stage in a way she hasn’t been able to in around 20 years. Madonna obviously has been an influence on Gaga but she owns all rights to her artistry at this point and not for a moment I thought she was doing what Madonna did once last Friday. It was pure Gaga.
 

A collab with Gaga would revive Madonna’s career as a musician but I think she’s too proud to admit that. At least she’s also reheating her own nachos by working w Stuart Price so she might shut me up very soon 

Exactly this. It's as if she's aware that the only relevance she can procure for herself (has been for at least 15 years) is by hanging off Gaga. It shows in her and it shows in her fans. They get desperate. And they are even more desperate the more Madonna fades away as an inspiration and the purer Gaga appears in her artistry. Because this means definitely losing the already scarce moments of relevance that Madonna and her fans could procure via Gaga (accusing plagiarism and pointing out bizarre comparisons). I think they would rather have Gaga appear singing Like A Virgin with a conebra (lol) than doing a Coachella-like performance of pure and apotheosic originality (something that characterized Gaga from day 1). Because then they don't even have the chance to throw their tantrums (yet, they are throwing them, as can be seen in Twitter posts with very few likes lmao).

Anyway, it's a very sad thing. And I say that as someone who admired Madonna's (past) career (I literally have more vinyl albums of hers than Gaga's lol).

[Economy 49,348]

16 hours ago, PartySick said:

Did you know she wanted MJ to be a cross dresser in In the Closet when it was supposed to be a collab between the two of them? And she wanted to take him to a strip club for a date  

Well if I remember correctly he wanted to take her to disney world and she wasnt for that either so they even 

[bpmMonkey 5,513]

17 hours ago, Zombiecat said:

and now she said it

this lunchen is my gods country. 🥲

[PartySick 157,631]

16 minutes ago, Economy said:

Well if I remember correctly he wanted to take her to disney world and she wasnt for that either so they even 

Nah, she said she wasn't gonna go to Disney, he said he wasn't taking her there

[Windowlicker 3,483]

10 hours ago, MadArchitect said:

Whatt?? when did Gaga flipped and had a meltdown over being asked about the email situation? which interview was that? as far as know that situation was never addressed by Gaga, she said she emailed Madonna's team and they replied approving Born This Way and giving support, then the next day these unnamed madonna representatives came to the press saying they were unaware of any emails, and then it died right there, i still doubt the legitimacy of those supposed reps. like who can confirm that? Madonna never addressed that topic herself either. That was not the reason the feud started at all, it was Just Madonna alone fueling the fire, being petty and undermining Gaga's artristry with the reductive comment, then using the BTW/EY medley, and mentioning Gaga multiple times on tour being butthurt she couldn't join her to sing with her lol

She very much addressed the comparisons head on in her interview with NME. She even had to issue an apology over her choice of words.

 

Spoiler

The young kids really want music with a message? Message-free stuff like Ke$ha songs sell loads.

Kids do want a message, yes. The message is seated inside this super-forward production... so, it's very forward, it's got this sort of hard techno electo rock thing underneath it, but the wordsare so pop that everyone knows what it is about. But immediately everyone raises their plagiarism hands up. 'Oh', they say, 'it's from something else.'

A bit of it does sound quite a lot like ‘Express Yourself’, though, doesn’t it?

I don’t think so… I swear to you. I am not stupid enough to put out a record and be that moronic.

The reference seemed so obvious that it had to be intentional because, as you say, you’re not stupid…

No. Listen to me. Why the ****…? I’m a songwriter. I’ve written loads of music. Why would I try to put out a song and think I’m getting one over on everybody? That’s retarded. What a completely ridiculous thing to even question me about. I will look you in your eyes and tell you that I am not dumb enough or moronic enough to think that you are dumb enough or moronic enough not to see that I would have stolen a melody. If you put the songs next to each other, side by side, the only similarities are the chord progressions. It’s the same one that’s been in disco music for the last 50 years. Just because I’m the first ****ing artist in 25 years to think of putting it on Top 40 radio, it doesn’t mean I’m a plagiarist, it means that I’m ****ing smart. Sorry.

The criticism did seem to take the wind out of the song’s sails.

There’s a lot of people who want to see me fail. The minute they see something to shoot at, they shoot, and the bigger I become the bigger target I am. Nobody in this room at any point looked around and said ‘Oh my God, it’s ‘Express Yourself’'. Not once. Listen. I swear to you. I can only be honest with you about it.

What will people say about ‘Judas’?

I dunno… I think they will really love it. (Starting to well up) I just don’t want my fans… I don’t know. This is exhausting. I just don’t wanna perpetuate that ****. I’m sure you want to address it but it’s just so ridiculous. I was just ****ing shellshocked by it. It’s so funny to hear you say, ‘It must have been a homage’, I’m like, NO. When I homage, I ****ing homage with a big sign saying I’ve done it. Why would I not do that now? (Sighs) I just like… I just have to say… (Starts crying) I feel like honestly that God sent me those lyrics and that melody. When you feel a message to give to the world and people are shooting arrows at it… there’s no way for something that pure to be wrong. (Reaches for Marilyn Monroe lighter) I need a cigarette.