Perfect celebrity : the ghost of a betrayed album

[chathonnete 577]

I agree that the album was re-shaped. You can feel it. There is no way she would plan to put PC, Abracadabra, HBDYWM and Die With a Smile in the same album since years. 
 

I truly think Gaga changed her mind about the album circle with the massive success of DWAS and tried to include it inside. And it worked. The album has already sold +4M copies, and it's because DWAS boosts the sales. 

[Anderson123 37,242]

4 minutes ago, chathonnete said:

I agree that the album was re-shaped. You can feel it. There is no way she would plan to put PC, Abracadabra, HBDYWM and Die With a Smile in the same album since years. 
 

I truly think Gaga changed her mind about the album circle with the massive success of DWAS and tried to include it inside. And it worked. The album has already sold +4M copies, and it's because DWAS boosts the sales. 

There's a very short window between Die With A Smile becoming the hit it was and the release of the album. There is no way she'd switch up production in time to have vinyls ready. Fans really need to get over the idea that she suddenly included Die With A Smile and decided to bring a bunch of demos like How Bad Do U Want Me just to "mix up" the music she already had. She had been saying for months there was a variety of genres. 

This is the same artist that has put Swine, Dope, Fashion!, Manicure, Jewels and GUY all in the same tracklist. She has never done a concept album for it to follow the same type of music from start to finish.

Also, every album (not just Gaga's) starts like that. They do several demos, find the core of what the sound would be like and start from there. Sometimes the writers and producers that started the project don't end up making the final cut. 

[XxBones 1,120]

People need to remember that art is subjective. Having an opinion or discussing how a project came to be can be a part of appreciating a project. Personally I see the whole process from start to finish and the final product as the whole process. Even if the artists abandons things or goes in different directions to me this is the whole process and what comes out at the end is the intended and final product. I love MAYHEM and think it's so interesting how it's a contrast of dark visual and light sounds. It's new for gaga and a reason why I love it so much. When I see someone expressing their own view and then comments calling them "little complainers" etc. it becomes quite annoying. Not everyone shares the same opinions when it comes to art. Let people form their own opinions. OP clearly backed things up with what gaga has said. It's not like it comes from nowhere. Whether this leads for them to dislike or love the project is also still their opinion. 

[GerMonsterNotta 1,263]

I’m exhausted 

stream mayhem 

[REALITY 74,982]

OP went on a tirade and for what?  Let's clear up some things...

1. Perfect Celebrity was not the first song she wrote for the album. It was Vanish Into You. 

That right there already proves your point wrong. Perfect Celebrity did not birth LG7, and it wasn't the first thing she thought of when she created the album. So if you really want to know MAYHEM's "original vision" (whatever that label entails) then you're looking at the wrong song.

2. She said that she pivoted from making all these eclectic songs to developing something more industrial/electro-grunge before Michael suggested that she continue working on the songs she started with. 

This one kind of baffles me because you literally pointed this out in the OP, but then your entire argument contradicts this fact. If she said that she pivoted from making something else to electro-grunge, then that "something else" is the "original LG7." Again, it was probably more in line with Vanish Into You.

3. Despite what you think, the visuals for the album make sense.

I'm tired of this elementary thinking that industrial/rock/grunge music = dark. "Dark" is a broad characterization that can encompass many things. Disease, Abra, GOE, Perfect Celebrity, Can't Stop The High, Vanish Into You, Killah, Zombieboy, Kill For Love, Shadow Of A Man, The Beast, Blade of Grass, and DWAS all have elements of darkness baked into them—lyrically, sonically, or thematically. Just because she's not screaming or the instrumentals aren't a fusion of electronic/techno/punk/grunge doesn't mean that the songs aren't "dark." Zombieboy is a perfect example of a track with dark imagery, but it leans more into a campy, vintage horror-type vibe. 

Idk why some people have such a problem with MAYHEM's aesthetics. It fits the vibe of the album. But also, expect it to change. Not only is it part of the mayhem of the album, but it's not like she hasn't changed up her aesthetics mid-era before. The Joanne World Tour and Coachella had different aesthetics from the Joanne album. Likewise, the Chromatica Ball looked very different from the album's original artistic direction.

4. The artistic process is a process.

Y'all need to understand that making art doesn't have a straightforward path. Things change and evolve. One minute you might think one type of sound is interesting, and the next minute you think that another type of sound fits better. As an artist, you're constantly inspired by many things, and those inspirations can take you in different directions. It's not wrong, and it's not bad. We need to stop this narrative that's been happening since ARTPOP that she "changed the original concept of the album." Concepts change all the time! That's why they're concepts and not the finished product. There's a reason why she's the artist and we're the public

Let's keep it 100...some of y'all are upset that you didn't get your exclusively industrial/rock/grunge album that you desperately wanted, and you're complaining about it because this era isn't fulfilling your fantasy. Listen, I love Perfect Celebrity and Can't Stop The High—the latter is one of my favorites from the album—but let's stop these false narratives and complaints that have no basis in reality. The things being complained about are narratives y'all either made up and are contorting to fit your narrative or are completely untrue. 

Next time just say you don't like the album and move on 

[REALITY 74,982]

37 minutes ago, chathonnete said:

I agree that the album was re-shaped. You can feel it. There is no way she would plan to put PC, Abracadabra, HBDYWM and Die With a Smile in the same album since years. 
 

I truly think Gaga changed her mind about the album circle with the massive success of DWAS and tried to include it inside. And it worked. The album has already sold +4M copies, and it's because DWAS boosts the sales. 

What's funny about this narrative is that MAYHEM doesn't even sound like her most chaotic record. 

Joanne literally has Dancin' in Circles, Joanne, Diamond Heart, Perfect Illusion, and Hey Girl, which all sound vastly different.

ARTPOP has Swine, Dope, Jewels N' Drugs, Gypsy, and Applause, which again, all sound very different.

Born This Way has Government Hooker, Hair, Heavy Metal Lover, The Edge of Glory, You and I, Fashion of His Love, and Electric Chapel.

While the songs on MAYHEM certainly have their own unique style, the diversity in music is not vastly different from any other project she's done. It's still all rooted in dance and synth-pop, but with different inspirations of industrial, funk, disco, electronic, techno, glam-rock, etc. That's kind of the basis of who Gaga is as an artist.

[ItalianGuy 10]

56 minutes ago, REALITY said:

OP went on a tirade and for what?  Let's clear up some things...

1. Perfect Celebrity was not the first song she wrote for the album. It was Vanish Into You. 

That right there already proves your point wrong. Perfect Celebrity did not birth LG7, and it wasn't the first thing she thought of when she created the album. So if you really want to know MAYHEM's "original vision" (whatever that label entails) then you're looking at the wrong song.

2. She said that she pivoted from making all these eclectic songs to developing something more industrial/electro-grunge before Michael suggested that she continue working on the songs she started with. 

This one kind of baffles me because you literally pointed this out in the OP, but then your entire argument contradicts this fact. If she said that she pivoted from making something else to electro-grunge, then that "something else" is the "original LG7." Again, it was probably more in line with Vanish Into You.

3. Despite what you think, the visuals for the album make sense.

I'm tired of this elementary thinking that industrial/rock/grunge music = dark. "Dark" is a broad characterization that can encompass many things. Disease, Abra, GOE, Perfect Celebrity, Can't Stop The High, Vanish Into You, Killah, Zombieboy, Kill For Love, Shadow Of A Man, The Beast, Blade of Grass, and DWAS all have elements of darkness baked into them—lyrically, sonically, or thematically. Just because she's not screaming or the instrumentals aren't a fusion of electronic/techno/punk/grunge doesn't mean that the songs aren't "dark." Zombieboy is a perfect example of a track with dark imagery, but it leans more into a campy, vintage horror-type vibe. 

Idk why some people have such a problem with MAYHEM's aesthetics. It fits the vibe of the album. But also, expect it to change. Not only is it part of the mayhem of the album, but it's not like she hasn't changed up her aesthetics mid-era before. The Joanne World Tour and Coachella had different aesthetics from the Joanne album. Likewise, the Chromatica Ball looked very different from the album's original artistic direction.

4. The artistic process is a process.

Y'all need to understand that making art doesn't have a straightforward path. Things change and evolve. One minute you might think one type of sound is interesting, and the next minute you think that another type of sound fits better. As an artist, you're constantly inspired by many things, and those inspirations can take you in different directions. It's not wrong, and it's not bad. We need to stop this narrative that's been happening since ARTPOP that she "changed the original concept of the album." Concepts change all the time! That's why they're concepts and not the finished product. There's a reason why she's the artist and we're the public

Let's keep it 100...some of y'all are upset that you didn't get your exclusively industrial/rock/grunge album that you desperately wanted, and you're complaining about it because this era isn't fulfilling your fantasy. Listen, I love Perfect Celebrity and Can't Stop The High—the latter is one of my favorites from the album—but let's stop these false narratives and complaints that have no basis in reality. The things being complained about are narratives y'all either made up and are contorting to fit your narrative or are completely untrue. 

Next time just say you don't like the album and move on 

Exactly! You are correct. The OP lays out an interesting idea but it’s already false based on what we know from Gaga her self.
 

Her origina posts, while working on the album, had references to disco funk and Prince! We know that tracks like Killa were already in the works as well as Vanish Into You prior to Perfect Celebrity. She was working with producers who were into classic inspired rock and funk.
 

Further, she said that perfect celebrity was added later in the process and made her think what would a grunge inspired full record sound like, but there is no evidence that the full record ever had that sound.

I appreciate that the OP has been following go from the start. I have as well as an “older millennial” gaga fan. It is no surprise the record sounds as it does as The Fame also had funk, disco, rock, and dance all on one record. 

 

[hELXIG 42,481]

I knew all this too but I wasn't saying anything because 1. everyone else is enjoying it and I don't wanna ruin the fun, 2. the final album Gaga decides to put out is her final choice and that is the album she's decided is the album, not scrapped or modified tracks, 3. the album is out now in it's final form and we can't wallow on some imaginary 'could'ves'

But yes if I'm being honest reading this makes me a little depressed because Mayhem is the first album of hers that doesn't feel like a cohesive concept to me, and I love half the songs to pieces and the other half I could take or leave. Every other album I've loved front to back immediately. Perfect Celebrity and Abracadabra are by far my favourites on the album and if it were more like that I think this album could've been my favourite piece of work by her.. so close, but so far away

BUT, it's too bad. It is what it is, and I'm grateful for the tracks we did get that I truly love. It's okay to not love the whole thing start to finish. It just means my initial reaction I recorded isn't getting posted anywhere because you can see my losing interest and having anything to say throughout the listen  

 

Edit: I just wanna add one little note in OPs favour. Gaga did say that for every other album when she collected the final tracklist, she went back through and edited each song to fit the concept so it sounded cohesive, but that she decided not to do this for Mayhem and left each song as it is, because to her that's part of the Mayhem. So in that way I think that even though all of her albums have been very varied, they still sound sonically cohesive. Mayhem is different and that's okay. Clearly the album has a tonne of love from fans and gp alike so it doesn't matter

Edited 19 hours ago by hELXIG

[Elderflower 76]

55 minutes ago, REALITY said:

Just because she's not screaming or the instrumentals aren't a fusion of electronic/techno/punk/grunge doesn't mean that the songs aren't "dark." Zombieboy is a perfect example of a track with dark imagery, but it leans more into a campy, vintage horror-type vibe. 

This!! Yes. Vintage horror vibe.

I can see Zombieboy in The Addams Family universe. 

[hELXIG 42,481]

1 hour ago, chathonnete said:

I agree that the album was re-shaped. You can feel it. There is no way she would plan to put PC, Abracadabra, HBDYWM and Die With a Smile in the same album since years. 
 

I truly think Gaga changed her mind about the album circle with the massive success of DWAS and tried to include it inside. And it worked. The album has already sold +4M copies, and it's because DWAS boosts the sales. 

Idk why people are debating this fact. Die with a smile was never written for her album, but she later on decided it fit and threw it on Mayhem. She said herself she went to visit Bruno in the studio, he was already working on the song for his own album, and she decided to jump on it. She started more like a feature on Bruno's song, but they clearly decided to release it as a duet because she did so much work on it

[PartySick 151,816]

6 hours ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Yeah, the OG argument convenieny neglects that Lady Gaga is 38 year old with agency. Not to mention that, in the Zane Lowe interview Gaga explicitly states that PC came along later in the cycle and what Michael discouraged her from doing was reworking pre-existing material that didn’t fit the industrial/grunge theme into that theme. She wanted to retcon the grunge angle and that was what Michael, rightfully, discouraged her from doing. 

All of this. Bro has it backwards for the most part.

DWAS was the only thing that was thrown in that didn't belong and tbh it was just tacked on to the end, it barely changes anything. Even my own meltdowns over that particular decision are crazy dramatic, but this thread is low-key nuts

[PartySick 151,816]

1 hour ago, REALITY said:

Let's keep it 100...some of y'all are upset that you didn't get your exclusively industrial/rock/grunge album that you desperately wanted

I still really want this but Mayhem scratched that itch pretty well tbh. Just the fact that most of the sounds are analog alone gives it the more raw feeling that some of her albums lack and rock is infused in almost every song in one way or another  

[Ladle Ghoulash 18,814]

3 minutes ago, PartySick said:

I still really want this but Mayhem scratched that itch pretty well tbh. Just the fact that most of the sounds are analog alone gives it the more raw feeling that some of her albums lack and rock is infused in almost every song in one way or another  

The live feeling of both the instrumentation and vocal performance really gives me life tbh 

[PartySick 151,816]

9 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

The live feeling of both the instrumentation and vocal performance really gives me life tbh 

@TheSine and I spent months before Mayhem geeking out over music and talking specifically about analog sound and how much depth and weight it gives music. It's why Chromatica is so weak imo, nearly every sound (if not 100% of the sounds) came out of a digital folder  

But you can feel how they used real instruments to make Mayhem. Even the synths, according to her, were like "oh we played that on a guitar, recorded the sound that came out of the amp, and fed it through a program to make a bass synth".

It f*cks so hard  genuinely my favorite thing about Joanne is the analog sound and it came back in such an explosive way for Mayhem

[SpadesToStart 3,212]

You can just say you only like a couple tracks off MAYHEM and leave it at that.

This, however, was a little much. It’s giving tin foil hat.