Brat-themed GRAMMY Awards voter guides has been sent to Recording Academy members

[RAMROD 104,520]

2 minutes ago, chromaticainmyhead said:

I feel like she's going to be ridiculously snubbed

MTE, she will win that dance album or whatever. But big categories might be snubbed.

[salty like sodium 1,049]

41 minutes ago, Lextyr97 said:

Beyonce never wins AOTY because of writing camps. It’s the common thread that I’ll always stand by. She’s the most awarded Grammy winner in history so honestly I really don’t think it has anything to do with race. Lemonade imo is the only time she could have won but 25 really was an absolute juggernaut in every single metric

Maybe you should pay more attention to the reasons why she's the most awarded Grammy winner in history... Have you even looked at the categories in which she has won all those awards? "Best R&B album".  "Best R&B/Rap duo performance", etc. She is always gatekept out of the main categories (except for Single Ladies winning SOTY, which is one of her most "palatable" singles), and the main pop ones too. The message is clear: "Beyoncé, you're great but you can only be the best in the "black" musical genres". Beyoncé was a juggernaut compared to Beck's Morning Sun. I Am... Sasha Fierce was also more iconic than Fearless. Lemonade had a much bigger cultural impact than 25 (which had stronger sales, but do people still remember Hello in the same way they remember Formation? Probably not. Or 25 in the same way they remember the Lemonade film?). And don't get me started on Renaissance losing to Harry's House... It is unfortunately a race thing and a lot of people know that by now.

For reference, Taylor Swift has won AOTY 4 times in her career that spans 18 years. The combined collective of black women across history, in the last 65 years, have only won 3 times for AOTY. That's including legends like Aretha Franklin, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Donna Summer, Diana Ross, Alicia Keys, Beyoncé, Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Tina Turner, and the list goes on and on... The implication that one female artist is somehow more talented than an entire collective of women who have inspired millions of people and shaped entire genres and trends is a ridiculous one.

The academy is notorious for having primarily old straight white men as voters (this has improved slightly over the years but has historically been the case and still is to an extent due to membership being lifelong (I think?), so it's going to take a few decades for that majority to be diluted).

Edited December 15 by salty like sodium

[Lextyr97 19,047]

10 hours ago, salty like sodium said:

Maybe you should pay more attention to the reasons why she's the most awarded Grammy winner in history... Have you even looked at the categories in which she has won all those awards? "Best R&B album".  "Best R&B/Rap duo performance", etc. She is always gatekept out of the main categories (except for Single Ladies winning SOTY, which is one of her most "palatable" singles), and the main pop ones too. The message is clear: "Beyoncé, you're great but you can only be the best in the "black" musical genres". Beyoncé was a juggernaut compared to Beck's Morning Sun. I Am... Sasha Fierce was also more iconic than Fearless. Lemonade had a much bigger cultural impact than 25 (which had stronger sales, but do people still remember Hello in the same way they remember Formation? Probably not. Or 25 in the same way they remember the Lemonade film?). And don't get me started on Renaissance losing to Harry's House... It is unfortunately a race thing and a lot of people know that by now.

For reference, Taylor Swift has won AOTY 4 times in her career that spans 18 years. The combined collective of black women across history, in the last 65 years, have only won 3 times for AOTY. That's including legends like Aretha Franklin, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Donna Summer, Diana Ross, Alicia Keys, Beyoncé, Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Tina Turner, and the list goes on and on... The implication that one female artist is somehow more talented than an entire collective of women who have inspired millions of people and shaped entire genres and trends is a ridiculous one.

The academy is notorious for having primarily old straight white men as voters (this has improved slightly over the years but has historically been the case and still is to an extent due to membership being lifelong (I think?), so it's going to take a few decades for that majority to be diluted).

Fair enough. I’m having a slight change of tune in thinking racism definitely has a hand. I just did a bit of research.
 

Coming back here though, no I do not think people outside of stan groups remember Lemonade or Formation the way people remember 25 or Hello. Hello is one of the biggest songs of all time, and 25 sold literally 10x more than Lemonade lol it’s far more likely a random person actually remembers 25. I find it completely reasonable that it won. Renaissance and self titled were far far bigger snubs. I still think Lemonade is better though.
 

Also for the Grammys she’s won, doesn’t Bey’s team submit for those categories themselves? I checked Lemonade and it’s not like any of the songs were moved around. She submitted for those categories

[Ziggy 10,754]

On 12/14/2024 at 8:40 PM, salty like sodium said:

Maybe you should pay more attention to the reasons why she's the most awarded Grammy winner in history... Have you even looked at the categories in which she has won all those awards? "Best R&B album".  "Best R&B/Rap duo performance", etc. She is always gatekept out of the main categories (except for Single Ladies winning SOTY, which is one of her most "palatable" singles), and the main pop ones too. The message is clear: "Beyoncé, you're great but you can only be the best in the "black" musical genres". Beyoncé was a juggernaut compared to Beck's Morning Sun. I Am... Sasha Fierce was also more iconic than Fearless. Lemonade had a much bigger cultural impact than 25 (which had stronger sales, but do people still remember Hello in the same way they remember Formation? Probably not. Or 25 in the same way they remember the Lemonade film?). And don't get me started on Renaissance losing to Harry's House... It is unfortunately a race thing and a lot of people know that by now.

For reference, Taylor Swift has won AOTY 4 times in her career that spans 18 years. The combined collective of black women across history, in the last 65 years, have only won 3 times for AOTY. That's including legends like Aretha Franklin, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Donna Summer, Diana Ross, Alicia Keys, Beyoncé, Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Tina Turner, and the list goes on and on... The implication that one female artist is somehow more talented than an entire collective of women who have inspired millions of people and shaped entire genres and trends is a ridiculous one.

The academy is notorious for having primarily old straight white men as voters (this has improved slightly over the years but has historically been the case and still is to an extent due to membership being lifelong (I think?), so it's going to take a few decades for that majority to be diluted).

Exactly this. That interview with Grammy voters last year where the woman said she was irritated Beyoncé is called the queen and that’s why she wouldn’t vote for her? Oh mad mad racism. They haaaaaate to see a woman bring the bragadociousness of male rap and just marketing at the end of the day.

Edited December 16 by Ziggy

[salty like sodium 1,049]

15 hours ago, Lextyr97 said:

Fair enough. I’m having a slight change of tune in thinking racism definitely has a hand. I just did a bit of research.
 

Coming back here though, no I do not think people outside of stan groups remember Lemonade or Formation the way people remember 25 or Hello. Hello is one of the biggest songs of all time, and 25 sold literally 10x more than Lemonade lol it’s far more likely a random person actually remembers 25. I find it completely reasonable that it won. Renaissance and self titled were far far bigger snubs. I still think Lemonade is better though.
 

Also for the Grammys she’s won, doesn’t Bey’s team submit for those categories themselves? I checked Lemonade and it’s not like any of the songs were moved around. She submitted for those categories

Thanks for hearing me out! I really appreciate that.

Honestly i've completely forgotten about 25 and hello on my end, despite having listened to the song and album A LOT. formation and lemonade how ever were culturally definining moments. there was a music video with serena williams, a highly talked about world tour, a superbowl halftime cameo, police boycotts of her shows (which is reminiscent of the pope urging christians to boycott madonna during her blonde ambition tour). These are the types of moments that i think lead to a more memorable era. not to forget the vma performance where beyoncé smashed the camera on stage... sure, i can accept that I'm a beyoncé fan and therefore maybe remember more things than others, but I also listen to Adele a lot and did not really remember her doing many memorable things during that era. It's not like I was actively avoiding her music - I'm also a listener of Adele's.

Also let's not forget Lemonade was memorable for one fact: the subject matter made the entire news cycle obsessed with the state of their marriage for a year. That type of press is hard to match tbh. Self-titled may have made a huge splash when it was released but the controversies surrounding Lemonade made it a whole event imo. I do agree self-titled and Renaissance were more deserving of AOTY.

For the Grammys, her team submits her in many categories. It just so happens voters only decide to vote for her in the "black" categories. Every time she submits in the pop or general field categories, she rarely wins (and almost never wins in the 4 main awards, except once for Single Ladies). Also they might submit her in one genre and have the academy shift it to another, I can't remember if this happened to her or Taylor Swift or someone else but someone last year had their songs switching categories I think. More info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Beyoncé

Notably for Lemonade she submitted songs in Rock, Country and Pop categories. I think she wasn't even nominated in Country and lost for the other two. I'm sure the songs that won were possibly great tbh, I didn't do that much research. But it is an overall trend that she mainly wins R&B/"Urban" as categories (and mainly gets nominated in those, whetehr that's on the label's part of because those are the only places her stuff usually gets nominated).

Edited December 16 by salty like sodium

[gagzus 14,585]

I kinda love this as a graphic design major. Funnily enough a FYC ad came up at the bottom of this thread as well.

 

I think she deserves to win AOTY personally, I also think they need to stop having so many non musically minded people in the committee. The committee should be ALL musicians and producers, I’m sure I saw a while back that the number of business people vs actual artists in the committee is disproportionately like a 85% majority.

[ActualPatient 1,263]

On 12/15/2024 at 10:27 AM, chromaticainmyhead said:

I feel like she's going to be ridiculously snubbed

My faves almost never win too so i fear this. Either she sweeps or she's almost entirely ignored.

[fede ARTPOP 6,228]

Wtf is this guide about?

 

why it hase the brat design and why theres a charlie pic inside? + who sent it?

🤡

[Ziggy 10,754]

On 12/15/2024 at 7:06 AM, Lextyr97 said:

Fair enough. I’m having a slight change of tune in thinking racism definitely has a hand. I just did a bit of research.
 

Coming back here though, no I do not think people outside of stan groups remember Lemonade or Formation the way people remember 25 or Hello. Hello is one of the biggest songs of all time, and 25 sold literally 10x more than Lemonade lol it’s far more likely a random person actually remembers 25. I find it completely reasonable that it won. Renaissance and self titled were far far bigger snubs. I still think Lemonade is better though.
 

Also for the Grammys she’s won, doesn’t Bey’s team submit for those categories themselves? I checked Lemonade and it’s not like any of the songs were moved around. She submitted for those categories

I think we need to be real, though. If something gets basically the widest popular critical acclaim of the year (which lemonade did) it shouldn’t really matter how charts perform. Lemonade is widely considered her magnum opus, it was incredibly timely, very very artistically impactful. It did everything but have a #1 which wasn’t really the goal (as you can tell by the release strategy). I distinctly remember 25 being hailed as great but lesser to 21. But I think it should be examined how heartbreak songs and albums from white women (Adele and Taylor) get the big Grammy wins but with Black women they don’t? Even when Adele is playing in RnB herself? It’s very weird to me. To me, each of her snubs are equally egregious in their unique ways lol Renaissance did the commercial and critical thing. Self titled did the artist statement and commercial smash and impact and acclaim route. Lemonade did artistic magnum opus and enormous acclaim. Like we can’t pretend it’s hit driven when Beck f’ing won (and I love Beck to be clear lol) it in recent memory. It can’t just be the writing camps bc we have to be so real, writing camp girls get all sort of pop wins in the Grammys.

[Nite 4,927]

I feel like brat might get the HoG treatment - "I thought everyone else was voting for it" 

I hope it goes to either Billie, Charli or Chappell. I didn't find Bey's or Taylor's albums very interesting 

[salty like sodium 1,049]

5 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I think we need to be real, though. If something gets basically the widest popular critical acclaim of the year (which lemonade did) it shouldn’t really matter how charts perform. Lemonade is widely considered her magnum opus, it was incredibly timely, very very artistically impactful. It did everything but have a #1 which wasn’t really the goal (as you can tell by the release strategy). I distinctly remember 25 being hailed as great but lesser to 21. But I think it should be examined how heartbreak songs and albums from white women (Adele and Taylor) get the big Grammy wins but with Black women they don’t? Even when Adele is playing in RnB herself? It’s very weird to me. To me, each of her snubs are equally egregious in their unique ways lol Renaissance did the commercial and critical thing. Self titled did the artist statement and commercial smash and impact and acclaim route. Lemonade did artistic magnum opus and enormous acclaim. Like we can’t pretend it’s hit driven when Beck f’ing won (and I love Beck to be clear lol) it in recent memory. It can’t just be the writing camps bc we have to be so real, writing camp girls get all sort of pop wins in the Grammys.

that's a great point. formation was literally only available to stream on tidal and still ended up peaking at #10 (i think?) if she had made it available everywhere it would have probably been a #1 debut imo.

[bionic 43,048]

4 hours ago, Nite said:

feel like brat might get the HoG treatment - "I thought everyone else was voting for it" 

Come on now  

[salty like sodium 1,049]

5 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I think we need to be real, though. If something gets basically the widest popular critical acclaim of the year (which lemonade did) it shouldn’t really matter how charts perform. Lemonade is widely considered her magnum opus, it was incredibly timely, very very artistically impactful. It did everything but have a #1 which wasn’t really the goal (as you can tell by the release strategy). I distinctly remember 25 being hailed as great but lesser to 21. But I think it should be examined how heartbreak songs and albums from white women (Adele and Taylor) get the big Grammy wins but with Black women they don’t? Even when Adele is playing in RnB herself? It’s very weird to me. To me, each of her snubs are equally egregious in their unique ways lol Renaissance did the commercial and critical thing. Self titled did the artist statement and commercial smash and impact and acclaim route. Lemonade did artistic magnum opus and enormous acclaim. Like we can’t pretend it’s hit driven when Beck f’ing won (and I love Beck to be clear lol) it in recent memory. It can’t just be the writing camps bc we have to be so real, writing camp girls get all sort of pop wins in the Grammys.

@Lextyr97another good point: just comparing the "impact" paragraphs on wikipedia for both Lemonade/25 and Formation/Hello speaks volumes... Spoiler alert: 25 has 4 paragraphs and Lemonade has 9 entire sections (19 paragraphs in total). Formation also had like 5 sections and Hello had 0 paragraphs. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25_(Adele_album)#Impact
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemonade_(album)#Impact_and_legacy

[Anderson123 35,822]

On 12/14/2024 at 7:27 PM, chromaticainmyhead said:

I feel like she's going to be ridiculously snubbed

She has a lot more nominations than I expected. Like Apple for Pop Solo is so random, 360 for the main category. I think her best chance is Best Dance/Electronic Album and maybe Von Dutch (maybe goes to Madison or Ariana) or Guess (maybe Gaga/Bruno) but any is fine. 

She really does deserve Album but not going to get my hopes up about a sweep. 
 

Edited Monday at 09:58 PM by Anderson123