After Nazi praising scandal, Canada’s House Speaker resigns

[Dennis 8,391]

22 minutes ago, 27monster27 said:

Lord this is a mess between messy people.

@Dennis I'm sorry but there is a lot wrong here. While I appreciate that you want to hold Russia accountable, there are still things to criticize Ukraine over, and yes there Nazi leanings (such as with Azov) is one of them. You overtly criticized the left in 2022 (FfFfFfFF is guilty of this as well) so much that the alt-right crowd had some sprouts on this website.

@FfFfFfFF While I appreciate how you like to hold the alt-right accountable, please do not act like you didn't bump this to start something. I know what it's like to want to make a major statement for your opinion (and I don't disagree with that), but bumping this thread was 100% you trying to start stuff.

@Bronco "Take the L." Grow up. Be respectful.

Not sure why you mention the "alt-right", you realize they're pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine right? So not sure how by me contextualizing the claim of "Nazism" in Ukraine, which exists very marginally at best, helped the "alt-right" have some sprouts on this website.

I mean go check Jackson Hinkle, Vivek Ramaswamy and the others. The alt-right opposes Ukraine and they're the one who amplify, and exaggerate the talk about nazism in Ukraine.

Yes, it is absolutely okay to condemn some Ukrainian leaders from the 40s who aligned with Nazis. But you can't use that as justification in 2023 to wage a war that kills half a million people.

Palestinians admire Hajj Amin Al-Husseini despite his collaboration with Nazi Germany (he was the first president of Palestine in 1948 too) and they view him as a national hero.

I bet if someone on this website used that as justification to claim Palestinians have a nazism problem that Israel was taking care of, y'all would up in arms about it and rightfully so.

I mean Ham*s exists today and commits brutalities including documented rapes (see link from NYT I shared earlier), and yet we're expected to contextualize their rise. But when it comes to Ukraine we can casually exaggerate something that was never widespread enough to be a threat to Russia or anybody else. 

 

[FfFfFfFF 58,120]

3 minutes ago, 27monster27 said:

While I appreciate that you want to hold Russia accountable, there are still things to criticize Ukraine over, and yes there Nazi leanings (such as with Azov) is one of them. 

This is it 100%, but it never seems to be agreed upon, on the contrary is the most resisted fact. 

Under this thread or as a new thread, the same user was going to comment either way, so I don't think there would have been any difference. And the fact that Trudeau applauded a Nazi veteran and that fact there's a Nazi museum in Ukraine are related news, and both point to the fact that celebration of the Nazi past is mainstream in Ukraine.

This should be recognized and criticized, not swept under the rug.

[Dennis 8,391]

4 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Under this thread or as a new thread, the same user was going to comment either way, so I don't think there would have been any difference. And the fact that Trudeau applauded a Nazi veteran and that fact there's a Nazi museum in Ukraine are related news, and both point to the fact that celebration of the Nazi past is mainstream in Ukraine.

You bumped this thread to celebrate an airstrike on Ukraine, part of a barrage that killed dozens of civilians on a wide range of targets (including a hotel where people were celebrating NYE).

So please don't mistake us for fools.

No one here was defending the fact a Speaker accidentally applauded a nazi collaborated. YOU BUMPED this thread MONTHS LATER for totally different reason, celebrating an airstrike from yesterday.

[FfFfFfFF 58,120]

Just now, Dennis said:

You bumped this thread to celebrate an airstrike on Ukraine, part of a barrage that killed dozens of civilians on a wide range of targets (including a hotel where people were celebrating NYE).

So please don't mistake us for fools.

No one here was defending the fact a Speaker accidentally applauded a nazi collaborated. YOU BUMPED this thread for totally different reason, celebrating an airstrike from yesterday.

I bumped this thread to post about a Nazi museum getting destroyed, the rest is you imaging stuff and trying to preach from a highorse because you are emotionally progammed and no longer think objectively or clearly.

So say it it plain an simple, why is there a Nazi museum in Lviv? Is it AI? Is it Russian propaganda? Is it not a sign there is an issue? How many stadiums named after Hitler exist in Berlin? hint: not many.

I am not saying Russia's invasion is justified, but to deny there are issues in Ukraine.. you must like to live in an alternate universe. This is especially hypocritical given you support Israe*l that unleashed an unprecedent level of destruction on Gaz*.

1 minute ago, Dennis said:

 

No one here was defending the fact a Speaker accidentally applauded a nazi collaborated. YOU BUMPED this thread for totally different reason, celebrating an airstrike from yesterday.

Did Zelensky applaud accidentaly and marginally too? 

[Dennis 8,391]

13 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

I bumped this thread to post about a Nazi museum getting destroyed, the rest is you imaging stuff and trying to preach from a highorse because you are emotionally progammed and no longer think objectively or clearly.

It wasn't a "Nazi" museum. 

It was a tomb of a Ukrainian independentist who initially fought against both USSR and Nazi germany, and later collaborated with Nazi germany hoping he'd get the independence.

For the same reason, that Palestinians today admire Amin Al-Husseini who collaborated with Hitler in the hope that he'd help him with Palestinian Independence.
 

Both are despicable acts. And you need to educate people on why they shouldn't celebrate such war criminals/evil human being in the name of being nationalistic. But that's a wider conversation and affects pretty much every country. Many of the leaders we celebrate today committed horrific acts, think about Charles De Gaulle of France and the millions of algerians he killed etc..

But "deals with the devil" was not something exclusive to Ukrainians. Unless your knowledge of history is very limited. USSR/Russia itself did it before Ukraine. And the man who did it is widely celebrated. The King of Sweden did it. Finland etc.. So please spare me the manufactured outrage. Why are you not calling the tomb of Gustav V a "nazi museum" ?

I don't know how many times I have to keep calling you out on your fake obsession with Ukraine. But I'm noticing many others are already seeing that. So maybe I don't need to point it out anymore?

[FfFfFfFF 58,120]

@Dennis Why do you continue to advocate the idea that a Nazi museum (which is not tomb even though you love playing with semantics) is a good thing?  

This was a museum housing an exhibition of items who belonged to "independentist" (ephemism for Nazi) Ukrainian military leader.

Why does said museum exist? Why is it not a problem?

[27monster27 15,866]

28 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Not sure why you mention the "alt-right", you realize they're pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine right? So not sure how by me contextualizing the claim of "Nazism" in Ukraine, which exists very marginally at best, helped the "alt-right" have some sprouts on this website.

I'm specifically referring to you in 2022. It was constant criticism of the "far left" >only< and very little of the far right. The criticism of only one side was dangerous because it had the potential to open to other problematic people coming in with bigoted opinions.

28 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

This is it 100%, but it never seems to be agreed upon, on the contrary is the most resisted fact. 

Under this thread or as a new thread, the same user was going to comment either way, so I don't think there would have been any difference. And the fact that Trudeau applauded a Nazi veteran and that fact there's a Nazi museum in Ukraine are related news, and both point to the fact that celebration of the Nazi past is mainstream in Ukraine.

This should be recognized and criticized, not swept under the rug.

Yes you are correct that pro-Nazi behavior should be called out and attacked. But some of the ways you are going about it (at least from my perspective) can come off as wanting to start something. Again, I get that it is a difficult issue, but it's worth mentioning.

[Dennis 8,391]

6 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

@Dennis Why do you continue to advocate the idea that a Nazi museum (which is not tomb even though you love playing with semantics) is a good thing?  

This was a museum housing an exhibition of items who belonged to "independentist" (ephemism for Nazi) Ukrainian military leader.

Why does said museum exist? Why is it not a problem?

Because I have the nuance and the historical knowledge to realize whether I like it or not, people will continue to celebrate their "national heros" who fought for their independence or their country even if they did bad things.

When I say I don't like Charles De Gaulle for the fact that he slaughtered millions of Algerians, many french people will disagree with me. And yet he's celebrated. I'm not raining on anyone's parade, let them.

When Americans celebrate many presidents who participated in the persecution of African Americans or Natives, again it's a matter of nuance. They create statutes for them. Some people will say it's "history", and "history" should be preserved as is. And I actually tend to agree. Does this mean that I approve of the actions these men committed? No. 

So why you're singling out Ukrainians? I mean we agree this man is horrible. But you single out Ukraine because you have an agenda. 

 

 

[FfFfFfFF 58,120]

1 minute ago, Dennis said:

Because I have the nuance and the historical knowledge to realize whether I like it or not, people will continue to celebrate their "national heros" who fought for their independence or their country even if they did bad things.

Why are Nazis national heros? Is that not an issue? 

The rest is all whataboutism.

[Dennis 8,391]

Just now, FfFfFfFF said:

Why are Nazis national heros? Is that not an issue? 

Hmmm, if your definition here collaboration with the Nazis makes you a Nazi.

Okay, ask the Palestinians why they consider Amin Al-Husseini a national hero. He literally helped Hitler recruit muslim divisions for his war.

Ask the Russians why they celebrate Stalin, a man who made a pact with Hitler to split Eastern Europe. Had Hitler not backstabbed him, he'd be no different than Mussolini.

When you get an answer to these questions, maybe that'll help you understand 

[FfFfFfFF 58,120]

6 minutes ago, 27monster27 said:

I'm specifically referring to you in 2022. It was constant criticism of the "far left" >only< and very little of the far right. The criticism of only one side was dangerous because it had the potential to open to other problematic people coming in with bigoted opinions.

Yes you are correct that pro-Nazi behavior should be called out and attacked. But some of the ways you are going about it (at least from my perspective) can come off as wanting to start something. Again, I get that it is a difficult issue, but it's worth mentioning.

I never try to start stuff in opening posts, but I get tired after constant attacks from the same user trying to police the narrative, and resist all facts adverse to his narrative.

See that one cannot even accept that a Nazi museum is a valid thing to criticize in the slightlest? This is where we're at.  I believe the same scene would have happened even after in a new thread.

[FfFfFfFF 58,120]

1 minute ago, Dennis said:

Hmmm, if your definition here collaboration with the Nazis makes you a Nazi.

Okay, ask the Palestinians why they consider Amin Al-Husseini a national hero. He literally helped Hitler recruit muslim divisions for his war.

Ask the Russians why they celebrate Stalin, a man who made a pact with Hitler to split Eastern Europe. Had Hitler not backstabbed him, he'd be no different than Mussolini.

When you get an answer to these questions, maybe that'll help you understand 

What do you know about my opinion on Soviet monuments in Eastern Europe?  I believe they should all be dismantled.

[Dennis 8,391]

Just now, FfFfFfFF said:

What do you know about my opinion on Soviet monuments in Eastern Europe?  I believe they should all be dismantled.

Will that change hearts and minds? You think the issue here is a piece of stone, rather than the fact hundreds of thousands of people admire these men? 

Again when you figure out why Palestinians admire Nazi-collaborator Hajj Amin, or why Russians admire Stalin, you'll find your answer as to why some Ukrainians admire a similar Nazi collaborator.

If you can't figure it out yet, maybe you should read more on sociology, and how you can change this behavior with education not dismantling statutes.

[FfFfFfFF 58,120]

5 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Will that change hearts and minds? You think the issue here is a piece of stone, rather than the fact hundreds of thousands of people admire these men? 

Again when you figure out why Palestinians admire Nazi-collaborator Hajj Amin, or why Russians admire Stalin, you'll find your answer as to why some Ukrainians admire a similar Nazi collaborator.

If you can't figure it out yet, maybe you should read more on sociology, and how you can change this behavior with education not dismantling statutes.

So, for the love of God, have you find it within the dephts of your soul to say a museum to a Nazi figure is bad?  And he is not just an "independentist"? 

How about we criticize all bad historical figures: Stalin and Hitler and their allies instead of delving into whataboutism?

[Shadow 6,697]

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