MARINA Says Barbie Movie Is Healing The Patriarchy

[faysalaaa 4,719]

14 minutes ago, Healed My Heart said:

But you must recognize that you're a man continually telling women here they must conform to YOUR definition of feminism - and surely you see how backwards that is if you actually care like you claim?

You can't do that and then get mad when it pisses someone off. Feminism is not toxic just because you say it is.

I did not tell anyone they must comform to my definition of feminism, I simply shared my opinion on feminism and im discussing it with people. How is this me telling women they have to comform to my opinions?

[gothicdream 39,607]

1 minute ago, SHALLOW said:

Before accusing someone of misogyny, at least read carefully what i said and think about it. Women can be hypocrites too sometimes.

Idk, women like me have tiny little brains so reading and thinking critically probably just isn't possible  I'm glad I have someone like you to tell me how to react to your post though!

[pussycat 3,514]

2 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

I actually agree, but when it becomes too ideologically driven, it becomes toxic.

For a movement to be successful, it has to have a basic simple message that can unite different kind of people.

But when the movement starts becoming too ideological, and starts purity testing everyone, it will start dividing people and not be effective.

In what way do you feel feminism has become too ideological? Why do you feel this way?

[gothicdream 39,607]

7 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

I did not tell anyone they must comform to my definition of feminism, I simply shared my opinion on feminism and im discussing it with people. How is this me telling women they have to comform to my opinions?

You have continually invalidated feminism, bc in YOUR opinion it is toxic and doesn't stand for what the majority of us believe it's all about.

It's not worth continuing to argue when you don't care to take a critical look at yourself through the lens being offered to you by so many women here. All I will say is, maybe think about why so many women have jumped in to challenge your thinking, and why you are so opposed to considering their thoughts about their own equality.

[faysalaaa 4,719]

1 minute ago, Healed My Heart said:

You have continually invalidated feminism, bc in YOUR opinion it is toxic and doesn't stand for what the majority of us believe it's all about.

It's not worth continuing to argue when you don't care to take a critical look at yourself through the lens being offered to you by so many women here. All I will say is, maybe think about why so many women have jumped in to challenge your thinking, and why you are so opposed to considering their thoughts about their own equality.

The way you speak is very passive aggressive and manipulative, saying im a man dismissing a group of women when none of that is happening. This is the typical way feminists talk and its very dishonest and not good faith.

I can easily flip your own logic on you, and say that most women around me agree with me, so im actually agreeing with women. Or do you not consider them real women? are only leftist feminist women real women? 

[faysalaaa 4,719]

Just now, pussycat said:

In what way do you feel feminism has become too ideological? Why do you feel this way?

If I say im a Feminist, its not enough today, you have to also believe in everything else Leftist believe. If you want Feminism to be supported by everyone, you have to allow different kind of people to join, even if they have horrible beliefs like supporting Trump or are pro life. Im a very conservative person and I know for sure I would never be accepted in a Feminist environment even though I agree with them and I dont have extreme ideas. This is not a critique of Feminism only, but mostly activist environments on the left and right. I think pushing for equality outside of activist movement is more effective.

[Bronco 11,995]

3 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

If I say im a Feminist, its not enough today, you have to also believe in everything else Leftist believe. If you want Feminism to be supported by everyone, you have to allow different kind of people to join, even if they have horrible beliefs like supporting Trump or are pro life. Im a very conservative person and I know for sure I would never be accepted in a Feminist environment even though I agree with them and I dont have extreme ideas. This is not a critique of Feminism only, but mostly activist environments on the left and right. I think pushing for equality outside of activist movement is more effective.

You are literally arguing for feminism to have zero values, ethics or position itself on any issue. 

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read on the internet and I used to follow Grimes. 

[Economy 50,025]

15 hours ago, Monstermilo said:

i will never get why certain women are anti feminist...... 

like yall really wanna go back to a time when females were considered property and couldnt do **** on their own???

 

I think very few women actually support that bottom half of what u wrote

 

Feminism in its traditional definition I think the majority of women do support it. I think the word simply is starting to get confused with other things on the internet such as full blown man hating or any form of masculinity what's so ever and then they say they aren't feminists because they are associating the word feminist with those people

 

This is a classic case of ppl agreeing in principal more than they may appear to because of varying perceptions on what a word means or symbolizes resulting in ppl arguing and appearing like they are not in agreement because they are not really arguing about the exact same thing ultimately 

[abc123321 73]

41 minutes ago, SHALLOW said:

Before accusing someone of misogyny, at least read carefully what i said and think about it. Women can be hypocrites too sometimes.

what you mentioned in that comment is not hypocrisy. women call themselves feminists and are still in abusive relationships (that point is beyond sexism, that's just trauma, but whatever) or say sexist things themselves to others because they live in a system that tells them this is what they should do

if you lived in a closet your whole life, around people telling you gay is bad, even after coming out you are still going to have internalized homophobia in you, you're still going to be ashamed of gayness from time to time, because unlearning that takes time

you see women saying they are feminists and acting the opposite way, not because they want to be cool, but because they are starting their journey and are not perfect at it, because no one is.

[Bronco 11,995]

Just now, Economy said:

Feminism in its traditional definition I think the majority of women do support it. I think the word simply is starting to get confused with other things on the internet and then they say they aren't feminists

It's similar to how a lot of Americans have been convinced Obamacare is different to the Affordable Care Act and hate "Obamacare" but don't support repealling the ACA when polled on it. 

[gothicdream 39,607]

6 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

The way you speak is very passive aggressive and manipulative, saying im a man dismissing a group of women when none of that is happening. This is the typical way feminists talk and its very dishonest and not good faith.

I can easily flip your own logic on you, and say that most women around me agree with me, so im actually agreeing with women. Or do you not consider them real women? are only leftist feminist women real women? 

None of that is happening? You aren't sat here in this thread arguing against every woman who challenges your view of feminism? Maybe we're reading different conversations.

Are there toxic people that call themselves feminists? Absolutely. Does that mean feminism as a whole is toxic? Absolutely not.

Of course there are some women who agree with your views and of course they are still "real women" (weird argument tbh). Patriarchy and misogyny are so completely ingratiated in our society that unfortunately many women agree with the oppression of women in various ways. That doesn't mean your viewpoint is correct, it means they have internalized the patriarchy and misogyny they are surrounded by.

Agree to disagree I guess, bc we will not see eye to eye on this.

[Economy 50,025]

1 minute ago, Bronco said:

It's similar to how a lot of Americans have been convinced Obamacare is different to the Affordable Care Act and hate "Obamacare" but don't support repealling the ACA when polled on it. 

I don't know enough about the supposed similarities or differences here to say if it's a fair comparison but I'll take ur word for it

[pussycat 3,514]

5 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

If I say im a Feminist, its not enough today, you have to also believe in everything else Leftist believe. If you want Feminism to be supported by everyone, you have to allow different kind of people to join, even if they have horrible beliefs like supporting Trump or are pro life. Im a very conservative person and I know for sure I would never be accepted in a Feminist environment even though I agree with them and I dont have extreme ideas. This is not a critique of Feminism only, but mostly activist environments on the left and right. I think pushing for equality outside of activist movement is more effective.

So when you say feminists should invite Trump supporters to the table, I wonder how you think that’s possible?

Trump himself said he’s not a feminist, he told Piers Morgan (a British journalist) that being a feminist would be going too far for him.

So if you are on board with Trumps beliefs and you stand for the same things he does it means you think the same; that feminism is going too far. And if that is the case, why would you expect an invitation? It’s like inviting someone that bullies you to your home - you would never.

[faysalaaa 4,719]

4 minutes ago, Healed My Heart said:

None of that is happening? You aren't sat here in this thread arguing against every woman who challenges your view of feminism? Maybe we're reading different conversations.

Are there toxic people that call themselves feminists? Absolutely. Does that mean feminism as a whole is toxic? Absolutely not.

Of course there are some women who agree with your views and of course they are still "real women" (weird argument tbh). Patriarchy and misogyny are so completely ingratiated in our society that unfortunately many women agree with the oppression of women in various ways. That doesn't mean your viewpoint is correct, it means they have internalized the patriarchy and misogyny they are surrounded by.

Agree to disagree I guess, bc we will not see eye to eye on this.

You are framing what im doing as a man dismissing women, and wanting women to conform to my beliefs. When what im doing is simply sharing my opinion on a forum respectfully, and having a debate on it.

If you have an issue with me disagreeing with women, well most women agree with me, so your argument that I shouldnt disagree with women is weak.

[faysalaaa 4,719]

7 minutes ago, Bronco said:

You are literally arguing for feminism to have zero values, ethics or position itself on any issue. 

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read on the internet and I used to follow Grimes. 

Feminism should have ethics when it comes to equality of the sexes, considering its a movement about equality. But you cant start purity test everyone that wants to join and expect them to be perfect! The point of activism is reaching as much people as you can, specially people who have horrible views.