Forced Participation In Religious Activities To Be Classified As Child Abuse In Japan

[sarahb 17,188]

11 minutes ago, Economy said:

This makes sense... But there also needs to be reasonable thresholds I think for what's considered abuse and what would be a reach cuz to me this is the kind of thing that could potentially have grey areas depending how involved exactly ur talkong

 

For example, a couple goes to church every week but their 5 year old doesn't really like going... The 5 year old is too young to be left alone at home and always paying a baby sitter may not be feasible for everyone. Are u gonna classify a parent taking them along to the church as a child abuse? Children often may not necessarily wanna do everything their parents involve them in. They may not wanna tag along for grocery shopping either but the parent decides they have to cuz they can't be left at home

 

I think there's legit shoving religion down the thorats of minors which should not be allowed but I wouldn't classify every casual involvement a kid may roll eyes on as outright child abuse.

 

The law needs to be clear where it's drawing the line

Based on the article is looks like taking your kid to church is fine, but telling them they'll go to Hell if they don't go isn't. 

[BBhomemaker 5,611]

15 hours ago, faysalaaa1 said:

"Inciting fear by telling children they will go to hell if they do not participate in religious activities"

What if they incite fear by saying a monster will come out of the closet at night if you dont do your chores? Its okay aslong as its secular and none religious?

I like what they did, but I just have a feeling that this kind of secularism is very french like. Which is they support secularism based on freedom and democracy, but you cant wear a hijab at the beach or if you work in a government building.

Where did you see that ? 

[faysalaaa 5,336]

9 hours ago, BBhomemaker said:

Where did you see that ? 

There were multiple French bans on hijab a couple of years ago. They banned women from wearing hijab or burkini in public beaches and pools. Hijabi women were banned from joining televised sports. Hijabi mothers were not allowed to join school trips with their kids. And hijabi women under 19 were not allowed to even be in public!

There was a video of French police forcing a woman to remove her hijab and cloths on a beach, which sparked a big controversy all over the world.
 

 

[BBhomemaker 5,611]

1 hour ago, faysalaaa1 said:

There were multiple French bans on hijab a couple of years ago. They banned women from wearing hijab or burkini in public beaches and pools. Hijabi women were banned from joining televised sports. Hijabi mothers were not allowed to join school trips with their kids. And hijabi women under 19 were not allowed to even be in public!

There was a video of French police forcing a woman to remove her hijab and cloths on a beach, which sparked a big controversy all over the world.

M.I.A. protested these bans by dressing up in full Burqa at an award show, which was illegal.

Wearing the hijab at the beach is not against the law, that some people got verbalised by the police was not normal or legit and should have not happens under the french law. Many cities (especially run by far right) would pull the security argument but its still not the law. The burkini is unallowed in public spaces by the law. 
Any sign or representation of any religions is not allowed at school, that also include school trips. 
Then again, the law is not systematically applied (like many laws in france), I remember last december some mayor was offended that they pull out his nativity scene decoration out of the city hall. It's a subject that France is still trying to figure it out fully, that divided a lot as well. I remember girls having debates in class when the subject was all over news. The separation of the state and religion is important to France, but France is also a multicultural place, so it has to face some questions

[faysalaaa 5,336]

29 minutes ago, BBhomemaker said:

Wearing the hijab at the beach is not against the law, that some people got verbalised by the police was not normal or legit and should have not happens under the french law. Many cities (especially run by far right) would pull the security argument but its still not the law. The burkini is unallowed in public spaces by the law. 
Any sign or representation of any religions is not allowed at school, that also include school trips. 

But you admit that France bans any sign or representation of religion in government buildings. This means a woman wearing hijab is not allowed to be a nurse or a teacher for example. They dont only ban public servants like teachers to wear hijab, they also ban mothers from wearing a hijab at school! This also means hijabi women cant join official sports on TV. This is the kind of secularism I dont like which is very French like.

I dont know the details of the laws in France, but hijab bans in public spaces like the beach were at one point practiced? then removed or made a local law? Even if it wasnt a law there is still a big debate and attempt to create laws against religious freedoms.

I also hate when people say its the right wing that did it, well yeah right wingers are part of your country and government.

[BBhomemaker 5,611]

10 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

You admit that France bans any representation of religion at government buildings. This means a woman wearing hijab is not allowed to be a nurse or a teacher for example. They dont only ban public servants like teachers to wear hijab, they also ban mothers from wearing a hijab at school! This is the kind of secularism I dont like which is very French like.

I dont know the details of the laws in France, but hijab bans in public were at one point passed, practiced, then removed, then made local. And there is still a debate about these bans in France and Muslims are always under risk of being banned.

I haven't said my opinion on it tho. I'm just saying what is allowed and unallowed by the law. What i don't want from people reading is to stigmatize France as a one way view, French people are divided on the subject, and it needs more open discussions. 

10 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

I also hate when people say its the right wing that did it, well yeah right wingers are part of your country and government.

Don't make me start on the french government and the monarch 

[faysalaaa 5,336]

5 hours ago, BBhomemaker said:

I haven't said my opinion on it tho. I'm just saying what is allowed and unallowed by the law. What i don't want from people reading is to stigmatize France as a one way view, French people are divided on the subject, and it needs more open discussions. 

Don't make me start on the french government and the monarch 

Im a Secular Muslim, which means I have to remove my personal beliefs and emotions when it comes to what I support in law, because I respect the freedom of different people that live with me under one country. So I expect Atheist seculars to do the same when it comes to my secular rights even if im a Muslim.

Its always interesting to me how french influenced countries like Tunisia and Quebec also have the same restrictions and laws. Even when its a Muslim Arab country like Tunisia! This is why I call it French Secularism. But yes I agree most French people arent like this, and many are divided on the subject.

[Sexxx 5,737]

Good now stop non-medical circumcision at birth  

[Economy 52,859]

5 hours ago, faysalaaa1 said:

But you admit that France bans any sign or representation of religion in government buildings. This means a woman wearing hijab is not allowed to be a nurse or a teacher for example. They dont only ban public servants like teachers to wear hijab, they also ban mothers from wearing a hijab at school! This also means hijabi women cant join official sports on TV. This is the kind of secularism I dont like which is very French like.

I dont know the details of the laws in France, but hijab bans in public spaces like the beach were at one point practiced? then removed or made a local law? Even if it wasnt a law there is still a big debate and attempt to create laws against religious freedoms.

I also hate when people say its the right wing that did it, well yeah right wingers are part of your country and government.

Here in Canada in Quebec (french part of Canada) they put in Simmilar restrictions for public servant workers

 

I strongly disagree with it. Most religious wear (unless it's to the extreme of a full blown burqua that u cannot even see the face) does not pose a security risk nor does it affect other ppl at all. It's simply personal identity.

 

Also much religious wear is also becomes cultural as well by nature because of the religious Influence in their culture. I've met so many women of Muslim backgrounds who cover their head or sihk men who wear a turbant even tho they've said they aren't too religious but they still wanna wear such things because they feel it's tied to their cultural identity

 

You can argue such restrictions are simply a dress code for "neutrality" but since these things are also cultural as well (not just religious) I hit back at that argument and say that dress code they call neutral is really just a very white people dress code.

[faysalaaa 5,336]

28 minutes ago, Economy said:

Here in Canada in Quebec (french part of Canada) they put in Simmilar restrictions for public servant workers

 

I strongly disagree with it. Most religious wear (unless it's to the extreme of a full blown burqua that u cannot even see the face) does not pose a security risk nor does it affect other ppl at all. It's simply personal identity.

 

Also much religious wear is also becomes cultural as well by nature because of the religious Influence in their culture. I've met so many women of Muslim backgrounds who cover their head or sihk men who wear a turbant even tho they've said they aren't too religious but they still wanna wear such things because they feel it's tied to their cultural identity

 

You can argue such restrictions are simply a dress code for "neutrality" but since these things are also cultural as well (not just religious) I hit back at that argument and say that dress code they call neutral is really just a very white people dress code.

Yeah I noticed alot of french influenced countries have this same view of secularsm. They view their anti religious laws as democratic, secular, and pro freedom when its not! I think France is this way because of their historic revolution against the church, which effected their cultural view on what secular freedom means.

I agree that alot of what Muslims and Sikhs wear are just their cultural norms, its not always based on religion.

I live in Saudi Arabia and nobody is allowed to decline removing their face cover. You are not even allowed to cover your face if you want to enter Mecca! So yeah I agree face covering should be illegal, or if its allowed you should remove it when asked, you cant use religion as an excuse.

[BBhomemaker 5,611]

9 hours ago, faysalaaa1 said:

Im a Secular Muslim, which means I have to remove my personal beliefs and emotions when it comes to what I support in law,

What do you mean by that ? 

[faysalaaa 5,336]

2 minutes ago, BBhomemaker said:

What do you mean by that ? 

I believe that my personal subjective beliefs (like religion) should only be practiced on myself. I would never want my religion to be part of my countries law. I want laws that are based on freedom for everyone, not based on my religion.

Sorry English is not my first language, dont know if I made it clear for you to understand..

[BBhomemaker 5,611]

6 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

I believe that my personal subjective beliefs (like religion) should only be practiced on myself. I would never want my religion to be part of my countries law. I want laws that are based on freedom for everyone, not based on my religion.

Sorry English is not my first language, dont know if I made it clear for you to understand..

Yes don't worry i understand, im just curious about how you process or see things.  Especially since you said that you live in Saudi Arabia. How do you feel about your laws being based on the Sharia for example ? (If its too personal i would understand that you don't want to speak on it) 

[faysalaaa 5,336]

17 minutes ago, BBhomemaker said:

Yes don't worry i understand, im just curious about how you process or see things.  Especially since you said that you live in Saudi Arabia. How do you feel about your laws being based on the Sharia for example ? (If its too personal i would understand that you don't want to speak on it) 

I dont support sharia law, and I dont believe sharia law is even part of Islam. Propher Muhammad immigrated to Medina and created a somewhat secular city and constitution. This is not how most Muslims think though.

When I got into politics, I became a Libertarian (the American version), and I learned alot about what freedom means philosophically. It really changed my entire belief system even though im not a Libertarian anymore. Because I started to value freedom, I started searching for a better version of Islam than the mainstream one.

I eventually found a great balance between my religion and secularism. I view religion as a personal thing, and secularism and freedom as a societal thing.

[BBhomemaker 5,611]

3 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

I dont support sharia law and I dont believe sharia law is even part of Islam. Propher Muhammad immigrated to Medina and created a somewhat secular city and constitution. This is not how most Muslims think though.

When I got into politics, I was a Libertarian (the American version) and I learned alot about what freedom means philosophically. It really changed me even though im not a Libertarian anymore.

It's very interesting, i'm gonna make more researches about it ! Thank you for your responds