Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English in official communications

[InTheCloset 21,794]

Italian government is seeking to penalize the use of English language in official communications with fines of upto €100,000 ($108,705) 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/01/europe/italian-government-penalize-english-words-intl/index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/melonis-party-looks-shield-italian-language-foreign-contamination-2023-03-31/

[weed 78,959]

relax babe you're still Italian if there's English in smaller font lmao

[Maxine Puth 9,053]

They just watched House of Gucci

[Ayesha Erotica 1,924]

I can partially understand this and support countermeasures because the English language is really too strong and is superseding other languages. We need to retain a diversity of languages that are equal in power, they are carriers of cultures and have a value, even if they have fewer speakers. At university, scientists don't publish in their native language anymore and it's getting more and more English, including literature. Native languages kinda feel second-class and people internalize the denigration. People in the US can hardly imagine how the situation is for non-anglophones.

Yet, I have twisted feelings about this because:

1. Italy somehow is a subtle racist country and not itself a role model in respecting languages. In South Tirol, Italian authorities try to diminish German and implement Italian as the dominant language, although German is there the local, native majority language and Italy annexed South Tirol from Austria. It is nationalist and culutre-imperialist to ban English while at the same time force Italian upon German-speaking South Tirolians. This is not how Europe should work.

2. Italian itself is a very artifical, relatively new language that is very different from local Italian dialects. Italian is replacing local Italian dialacts... it is again, nationalist to impose Italian while not caring about dialacts at regional level and not allowing them.

3. I'm sceptical about this law - English is so strong, I can tell ya all, it will nevertheless continue to seep into Italy. A better way would be to support Italian pop culture with money and projects, that would make Italian stronger. Banning something is a cheap way.

Modern Italian music pop culture is literally a desert compared to Anglo-American pop culture or Korean pop culture. It feels outdates, sparsely are there cool artists. They sound mostly the same. The most famous songs are decades old. Italian modern pop culture is not competitive anymore. It draws its power form its glorious past, but that is not enough. I don't blame exclusively Italian - many other languages suffer from the same fate.

[YourWhiskyMouth 4,014]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cqihns9r4jr/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[Cavadour 2,705]

Buona fortuna, Italia... and keep up the good work !

[Economy 52,861]

17 minutes ago, LoliLux said:

I can partially understand this and support countermeasures because the English language is really too strong and is superseding other languages. We need to retain a diversity of languages that are equal in power, they are carriers of cultures and have a value, even if they have fewer speakers. At university, scientists don't publish in their native language anymore and it's getting more and more English, including literature. Native languages kinda feel second-class and people internalize the denigration. People in the US can hardly imagine how the situation is for non-anglophones.

Yet, I have twisted feelings about this because:

1. Italy somehow is a subtle racist country and not itself a role model in respecting languages. In South Tirol, Italian authorities try to diminish German and implement Italian as the dominant language, although German is there the local, native majority language and Italy annexed South Tirol from Austria. It is nationalist and culutre-imperialist to ban English while at the same time force Italian upon German-speaking South Tirolians. This is not how Europe should work.

2. Italian itself is a very artifical, relatively new language that is very different from local Italian dialects. Italian is replacing local Italian dialacts... it is again, nationalist to impose Italian while not caring about dialacts at regional level and not allowing them.

3. I'm sceptical about this law - English is so strong, I can tell ya all, it will nevertheless continue to seep into Italy. A better way would be to support Italian pop culture with money and projects, that would make Italian stronger. Banning something is a cheap way.

Modern Italian music pop culture is literally a desert compared to Anglo-American pop culture or Korean pop culture. It feels outdates, sparsely are there cool artists. They sound mostly the same. The most famous songs are decades old. Italian modern pop culture is not competitive anymore. It draws its power form its glorious past, but that is not enough. I don't blame exclusively Italian - many other languages suffer from the same fate.

It has cultural value but tbh I feel like if humans spoke just 1 language it would make more sense and eliminate unnecessary barriers

 

I'm not saying it should be English. To be fair it would have to be some new language no one speaks now but realistically it will also never happen because it will require too much effort

[Ayesha Erotica 1,924]

1 minute ago, Economy said:

It has cultural value but tbh I feel like if humans spoke just 1 language it would make more sense and eliminate unnecessary barriers

 

I'm not saying it should be English. To be fair it would have to be some new language no one speaks now but realistically it will also never happen because it will require too much effort

From a purely practical view, it would eliminate barries yet it would impoverish us in a creative way. For example, in music, word rimes are important.

We heard in [English] songs often rimes à la:

door, more, floor, for

Hey, open the door?

I want more!

Get on the dancefloor!

What you waiting for?

So, certain words have a certain probability to be rimed with another word and therefore to be used, yet some words that do not rime are likely never used in follow-up constellations. So, if we only had one language, we would often have very specific constellations, while others, probably never.

So, when we hear a song, in French, Japanese or Hindi, the content is never universal, it is often  based on the rhyhthm features of the words. This is why I advocate plurality of languages.

 

[Mother of Puppies 36,615]

52 minutes ago, Economy said:

I feel like if humans spoke just 1 language it would make more sense and eliminate unnecessary barriers

English is that language that almost everyone learns, so we do have a common ground to communicate. This has progressed so much in the past decades. While my grandparents didn't learn english in school, (they never learned it) I started studying it at 11 and today's kids start even earlier at I dunno 7 or 8.

So this already exists with English. Otherwise we all couldn't even communicate in here, in this forum) I don't think this would eliminate any barriers. I think different languages and cultures are beautiful and to maintain.

 

edit: We have the same "problem" in my country and I catch myself using english words sometimes. (But I don't think banning or making something forbidden is the way to go)

[Red 99,113]

Don't let Gaga hear about this or else she won't speak English again

[Maxine Puth 9,053]

2 minutes ago, Red said:

Don't let Gaga hear about this or else she won't speak English again

If Gaga wanted to learn Italian she probably would’ve done it a long time ago 

[RahrahWitch 6,985]

I understand wanting to preserve your language but trying to outright ban a language widely used across the globe in a country that's pretty dependent on tourism is kind of stupid but not surprising considering who's pushing it. You could just have Italian be required alongside any English.

[GoldenEmperor 50]

1 hour ago, LoliLux said:

I can partially understand this and support countermeasures because the English language is really too strong and is superseding other languages. We need to retain a diversity of languages that are equal in power, they are carriers of cultures and have a value, even if they have fewer speakers. At university, scientists don't publish in their native language anymore and it's getting more and more English, including literature. Native languages kinda feel second-class and people internalize the denigration. People in the US can hardly imagine how the situation is for non-anglophones.

Yet, I have twisted feelings about this because:

1. Italy somehow is a subtle racist country and not itself a role model in respecting languages. In South Tirol, Italian authorities try to diminish German and implement Italian as the dominant language, although German is there the local, native majority language and Italy annexed South Tirol from Austria. It is nationalist and culutre-imperialist to ban English while at the same time force Italian upon German-speaking South Tirolians. This is not how Europe should work.

2. Italian itself is a very artifical, relatively new language that is very different from local Italian dialects. Italian is replacing local Italian dialacts... it is again, nationalist to impose Italian while not caring about dialacts at regional level and not allowing them.

3. I'm sceptical about this law - English is so strong, I can tell ya all, it will nevertheless continue to seep into Italy. A better way would be to support Italian pop culture with money and projects, that would make Italian stronger. Banning something is a cheap way.

Modern Italian music pop culture is literally a desert compared to Anglo-American pop culture or Korean pop culture. It feels outdates, sparsely are there cool artists. They sound mostly the same. The most famous songs are decades old. Italian modern pop culture is not competitive anymore. It draws its power form its glorious past, but that is not enough. I don't blame exclusively Italian - many other languages suffer from the same fate.

I cant imagine how frustating is for new artist feeling like their art dont make any noise and is not attractive for old people either for young people because the globalization or anglicanization. And you know what i am with Italy in this. In my country there something similar but with the money, everything priced by dollar when we have our own coin.

[GoldenEmperor 50]

30 minutes ago, Mother of Puppies said:

English is that language that almost everyone learns, so we do have a common ground to communicate. This has progressed so much in the past decades. While my grandparents didn't learn english in school, (they never learned it) I started studying it at 11 and today's kids start even earlier at I dunno 7 or 8.

So this already exists with English. Otherwise we all couldn't even communicate in here, in this forum) I don't think this would eliminate any barriers. I think different languages and cultures are beautiful and to maintain.

 

edit: We have the same "problem" in my country and I catch myself using english words sometimes. (But I don't think banning or making something forbidden is the way to go)

I do it too. I get annoyed with myself when I forget a word from by own language or when we dont have an equivalent for it.

[Economy 52,861]

37 minutes ago, Mother of Puppies said:

English is that language that almost everyone learns, so we do have a common ground to communicate. This has progressed so much in the past decades. While my grandparents didn't learn english in school, (they never learned it) I started studying it at 11 and today's kids start even earlier at I dunno 7 or 8.

So this already exists with English. Otherwise we all couldn't even communicate in here, in this forum) I don't think this would eliminate any barriers. I think different languages and cultures are beautiful and to maintain.

 

edit: We have the same "problem" in my country and I catch myself using english words sometimes. (But I don't think banning or making something forbidden is the way to go)

I guess personally I don't see the point of maintaining a language for the sake of culture.

 

I have a Portuguese background and speak Portuguese fluently myself but... Now living in Canada, if I ever have kids I'm not sure if I'd bother making them learn it... There aren't gonna be any relatives left by the time they grow up that still speak only Portuguese and they can communicate just fine in English

 

Meanwhile u can still appreciate historical things about a culture like the food, music, historical moments etc.

 

Language to me is just a mode of communication and nothing more

 

However if someone wants to maintain it out of some attachment to a culture cuz they see value in it no harm done and I'm not like bothered by it or whatever... But I do also think a full blown ban is also stupid.

 

Here in Canada they have a lesser extreme form of it in Quebec. The rest of Canada has to have french in everything every product, every sign and every customer phone call has to have french available however in Quebec the same is not required for English and they can have just french in signs and services and stuff.

 

It was literally a double standard concession just to make them feel that their french is being protected.

 

It's funny at the warehouse I work in some products that come from the US that aren't manufactured with a French side we literally have to pay someone to cover it with stickers that have the French writing just so that it meets regulations even tho no one receiving the product is going to care. So some of the laws are really a bit nonsensical tbh