Macron will not ask for ‘forgiveness’ over the colonization of Algeria

[FfFfFfFF 58,106]

1 minute ago, Melancholia said:

complete false equivalency. whilst rome didn't turn into iraq or turkey, the denmark then and the denmark now are literally the same state. whilst there may have been governmental reform or changes internally, 'the kingdom of denmark' we see today is not some other state, there's a direct, unbroken line of kings going back to the kings who invaded britain, the same argument of 'it was your ancestors' used to award responsibility for slavery and colonialism onto people alive today.

Would you agree there is a difference beween the Denmark of the 9th century and France of the 20th century though? We are talking about stuff that happened one millenium ago vs stuff that happened less than a hundred years ago.

[Supersonic 49,376]

11 hours ago, Midnights Mayhem said:

Why is it his responsibility? Colonisation happened unfortunately, no pointless apologises will change that fact. 

Ok Mr. "Nazis aren't that bad"

[LOVEDRUG 11,254]

Just now, FfFfFfFF said:

Would you agree there is a difference beween the Denmark of the 9th century and France of the 20th century though? We are talking about stuff that happened one millenium ago vs stuff that happened less than a hundred years ago.

yes and no. it's hard to assign some arbitrary cut-off point. where do you draw the line? the uk stopped participating in slavery in the early 19th century, does that mean they're less responsible for slavery reparations than another country that kept it legal for another 50-100 years? the majority of the horrors committed by the spanish colonial empire were committed in the 15th and 16th centuries, does that make them less responsible and less liable than france and britain are for the crimes they committed in the 20th century?

i don't doubt we should recognise, break down and learn more about these horrific events, but something like financial compensation is so subjective and difficult to calculate, on top of the fact that many would argue people born in the 70s and later shouldn't be held responsible at all, that i do not think it is the best or most effective way to properly approach these issues and the generational trauma that has come from it.

[Oriane 22,749]

10 hours ago, BBhomemaker said:

Y'all speak about money.. I want acknowledgement of what happened, i want truth, i want respect for the peoples and cultures that lived there. I want them to teach history the way it happened instead of proclaiming certain "leaders" as heros and pointing out others, i want them to stop creating division or try to cover everything up by saying "orrh its not relevant we are all french now, its the past!" 

Doing meaningful actions in the present and future would also be nice, for example to facilitate the integration of immigrants and stop saying they want to "replace" us or something 

[FfFfFfFF 58,106]

8 minutes ago, Melancholia said:

the uk stopped participating in slavery in the early 19th century, does that mean they're less responsible for slavery reparations than another country that kept it legal for another 50-100 years? at has come from it.

Well a lesser bad is less bad than a greater bad, yes?

8 minutes ago, Melancholia said:

the majority of the horrors committed by the spanish colonial empire were committed in the 15th and 16th centuries, does that make them less responsible and less liable than france and britain are for the crimes they committed in the 20th century?

 

Similar story.

8 minutes ago, Melancholia said:

 

i don't doubt we should recognise, break down and learn more about these horrific events, but something like financial compensation is so subjective and difficult to calculate, on top of the fact that many would argue people born in the 70s and later shouldn't be held responsible at all, that i do not think it is the best or most effective way to properly approach these issues and the generational trauma that has come from it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_debt What you are saying applies to a country's external debt. Are the citizens responsible for their country's financial decision and should be taxed in such a way that money goes to those? Are countries and institutions of the 2020s different and have no responsibility for those of the 1960s?

[Dennis 8,391]

26 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

What are the Native American organization that you donate to as an US citizen? Amazing that you do donate your salary to them, but spread the word to us too!

I'm not the one arguing new generations should pay reparations for what their ancestors did. And if I were, I'd put my money where my mouth is, instead of waiting for others to start giving their money. As for the atrocities that are happening in present day, yes I do make regular donations. And I think before telling others to pay, one has to start with oneself, otherwise it'd be hollow virtue signaling in my opinion.

[FfFfFfFF 58,106]

Just now, Dennis said:

I'm not the one arguing new generations should pay reparations for what their ancestors did. And if I were, I'd put my money where my mouth is, instead of waiting for others to start giving their money. As for the atrocities that are happening in present day, yes I do make regular donations. And I think before telling others to pay one has to start with one self, otherwise it'd be hollow virtue signaling in my opinion.

So you don't donate and only tried to be patronizing? Thanks for clarrifying that up then.

[Dennis 8,391]

12 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

So you don't donate and only tried to be patronizing? Thanks for clarrifying that up then.

Are you incapable of understanding? If you read my earlier posts, I said I'm a believer in helping people who are suffering from war and famine in present day as opposed to focusing on the distant past. And to that effect, I make regular donations to help these people who deseperately need now. What I said is that you feel so strongly about helping ex-colonies for example, nothing is preventing you from donating that if that's the cause you want to champion. No reason to wait for the government to force you to. Take the initiative. Not sure why you got defensive about this. It seems that people are big on words but when someone asks them to open their purse and actually help suddenly it's an issue

Bottom line is, charity is a great tool we can use to make a change in this world. It's not patronizing, it's simply asking people to do something tangible beyond mere words and virtue signaling.

[FfFfFfFF 58,106]

Just now, Dennis said:

Are you incapable of understanding? If you read my earlier posts, I said I'm a believer in helping people who are suffering from war and famine in present day as opposed to focusing on the distant past. And to that effect, I make regular donations to help these people who deseperately need now. What I said is that you feel so strongly about helping ex-colonies for example, nothing is preventing you from donating that if that's the cause you want to champion. No reason to wait for the government to force you to. Take the initiative. Not sure why you got defensive about this. It seems that people are big on words but when someone asks them to open their purse and actually help suddenly it's an issue

No baby, like always you tried to gaslight people into changing the course of the conversation in your favour and implied you donate money to Native American organizations (which you don't). Also do you donate to Yemen and Ethiopia (most deadly civil war in recent times, half a million deaths) or you only ''put your money where your mouth'' is when it comes to that one exemple?

[Fanta 5,019]

12 hours ago, Rat Boy said:

Omg are there people here minimising the impacts of colonisation?? As a POC, some people will never understand how actions that happened many years ago are still impacting us today.

A lot of people here are ignorant and disgusting. They will cape for the worst causes and/or people but will always have something to say about PoC and minorities demanding their basic human rights and acknowledgements. 

[Emvee 8,826]

“Let’s just start apologizing to everyone then!”

 

Uh, yeah, that’s the point lmao 

[Better Day 5,766]

1 hour ago, Supersonic said:

Ok Mr. "Nazis aren't that bad"

Now that’s an extremely horrible and tone deaf comment. 

[Better Day 5,766]

19 minutes ago, Emvee said:

“Let’s just start apologizing to everyone then!”

 

Uh, yeah, that’s the point lmao 

Okay, the Brits should apologise to the America and ram money to them. 

[FfFfFfFF 58,106]

15 hours ago, Togekiss said:

The Byzantines and Ottomans would like a word lol

The Byzantine Empire was the late Roman Empire which had under its dominion Greeks and Latinized Balkan population. The population became Roman both because of colonists and cultural exchange (one wonders at what point the Roman Empire stopped being a colonial power and became the native civilization of what would become Portugal, Spain, France, Italy and Romania). And afterwards came the Slav settlers which actually fit the definition of colonists more (same as the now extinct Cumans, Pechenegs, Avars, Goths etc).

The Ottomans were at the beginning Asiatic Turkic people which conquered Constantinopole and the Balkans. They were a colonial empire colonizing Eastern Europe rather than an Eastern European colonial empire. The Turks were not native to Bulgaria and Greece and by most definitions they are not an Eastern European population (though at one point the dispute over Turkey being part of Europe gets blurry, there are arguments and counterarguments).

[FfFfFfFF 58,106]

3 hours ago, Midnights Mayhem said:

Okay, the Brits should apologise to the America and ram money to them. 

America was in large part founded by Brits themselves. If we are being honest UK should apologize to the Native Americans.