I don’t agree with Born This Way

[erfaan 2,763]

The song isn't referring to biological birth only but our own understanding and definition of ourselves. Did you not watch the video? 

As the wombs numbered and the mitosis of the future began it was perceived that this infamous moment in life is not temporal, it is eternal.

She's referring to the fact that we're in charge of our own re-birth. She hinted at this numerous times during the era. 

[Bottom 1,842]

No one knows about a gene or whatever, it is more about saying how it is not a choice

[Serial Chiller 8,044]

3 minutes ago, vixdean said:

That’s a very problematic thing to say. There’s no gay gene that determines one’s sexuality. 

By saying that you are gay, bi, etc for biological/genetical reasons, you are aligning yourself with those who claim that non-normative sexualities can be cured because it’s an illness.

It isn’t. And sexuality is socially and culturally constructed. We are not born gay, bi, etc.

Hmm now let's draw a parallel to the neuroatypicalities such as autism, which IS a medical condition, conventionally regarded as an impairment or illness.

Is curing autism the goal then? 

There being no gay gene doesn't mean that one isn't wired or predisposed since birth to act a certain way or prefer a sexual orientation or expression. 

You seem to think that everything about genetics and the human brain have been decoded and understood. They're not. 

On the other hand, saying that nobody is born gay, bi and that sexuality is purely a social construct is basically saying "Oh he was raised in a gay environment so he turned gay" LGBTQ+ folks are STILL largely marginalized and empirical data of gay people is incomplete. There's not yet accounting for what trigger the "gay switch" because they come from so many backgrounds and upbringings. 

Basically, it's neither here nor there, and the point is to accept people as they are, regardless of how they "became" that way, so long as it isn't actively harmful and dangerous to them or other people. That is what it means to be "Born this way" Any argument of the "cause" only seeks to invalidate their identity and existence.  

[alsemanche 92,189]

The replies  Y'all really just read 2 words and drag people while making 0 points 

As for the OP, I think there's an essential point you're disregarding and it's the fact that the song doesn't treat birth as a biological process (at least that's how I see it). It's kinda like "my identity was born this way" as in it was constructed in whatever way it was and that's who I am. Now of course, biologically, it's not accurate to say that since there is not concrete evidence at our disposal for a "gay gene" or something similar (and I frankly don't think queerness is 100% genetic, but that doesn't change anything). The song, as I said, is more about abstract birth, and the fact that she puts God in it supports that point I think. 

But I get where you're coming from tbh, it's not exactly the most "advanced" song on a factual level but it's still considered an anthem.

[Just A Holy Fool 2,459]

1 minute ago, GeeYewWhai said:

 No what I’m saying is that being gay is more than just your genes. You went straight to the negative, You automatically went the pedo route and that’s on you. Your sexuality is influenced by a plethora of things both negative and positive but that doesn’t delegitimize one’s sexuality. It’s like how someone might be more inclined to enjoy nature if you were brought up in a more outdoor type household.

 

is it so hard to imagine a world where things aren’t predestined for us?

I was of course being partly cheeky, but its not about pre-destiny. Something as innate as to who you are attracted to, your skin colour, ethnicity, etc.. are all things you are born into. That is the essence of the song... 

Of course society, environmental factors etc. will shape your personality, but not the things I mentioned above. 

[pussycat 3,514]

Ofc ur born gay/bi/.. I literally have a twin that’s straight, our lives were identical for 12 years. Explain that 

[holy scheisse 21,723]

I think I was born this way tho so to each their own lol 

[Illuminati 15,844]

8 minutes ago, vixdean said:

That’s a very problematic thing to say. There’s no gay gene that determines one’s sexuality. 

By saying that you are gay, bi, etc for biological/genetical reasons, you are aligning yourself with those who claim that non-normative sexualities can be cured because it’s an illness.

It isn’t. And sexuality is socially and culturally constructed. We are not born gay, bi, etc. So yes, completely agree with the Op @GeeYewWhai.

Sexuality Studies/Queer Theory is a whole disciplinary field dedicated to these questions. For example, the concept of performativity by Judith Butler addresses these issues very well and comprehensively. 

Our identity and interpretation of the world around us starts from when we are born, it doesn't have to be a gene for the phrase to be valid. I don't know why certain people here feel the need to be so literal about it and twist the whole thing as something negative.

[holy scheisse 21,723]

Just now, pussycat said:

Why do i lowkey feel attacked  ofc i was born gay i literally have a twin that’s straight, our lives were identical for 12 years. Explain that 

Are y'all identical twins?

[GagaSine 7,464]

Worth noting that the chance of a mother having a gay son increases a lot with each son she has, so there is seemingly a genetic/biological component.

However I understand what you're getting at and have seen this perspective from progressive academics before, I personally find it very reasonable, but I have never had strong feelings about my own sexuality in the first place & I understand that other people feel differently. 

[Just A Holy Fool 2,459]

1 minute ago, pussycat said:

Why do i lowkey feel attacked  ofc i was born gay i literally have a twin that’s straight, our lives were identical for 12 years. Explain that 

Exactly. I think we are all quick to jump over the OP because facets of this argument have been used continuously by homophobic leaders to justify why we shouldn't have full rights, because we choose to be this way. I know what the OP is saying is deeper than that, but don't post on Gaga Daily saying you disagree with the concept of Born This Way and expect to not get attacked. 

[HEARTSTOP 3,137]

17 minutes ago, GeeYewWhai said:

The song.  (Not hatin on the song, nor the message, just the approach)

 

I don’t think we’re born this way and that the sentiment is a little outdated. People within the LGBTQ+ spectrum are arguably not born with their sexuality completely determined, there is science to back it up and as of late there is still no evidence for a “gay gene.” Rather there is a plethora of things before and after birth that have been found to influence one’s own gender identity or sexual preference. In addition, while the song is factually inaccurate, which is fine, I think its morally obsolete as well...

My thinking goes: just because you weren’t born this way, doesn’t mean your sexuality is a choice (the obvious reason why this song exists is to say queerness is not a choice.) and even if it was a “choice,” so what? The choice vs no choice precedent is irrelevant. You shouldn’t sh*t on someone for doing something or for living in a way they want to live that brings them happiness (given they don’t hurt anyone or themselves), plain and simple. 
Okay Let’s say that’s not enough, choices implies accountability and you shouldn’t have to be accountable for being queer.
But here’s the thing, you don’t need the “born this way” argument to prove our existence isn’t a choice. Look at it this way, you don’t chose your personality, your fears, your ambitions, your favorite music even. These are results of things that occur in your life. It’s like how we (for the most part) don’t ridicule homeless people for being homeless (it wasn’t a choice, it was a circumstance due to unfair systems in place). We don’t reprimand people for having different personalities, ambitions, etc.  There are things unchangeable post birth and during life because we don’t control everything that happens to us. Therefore not a choice. 
 

Believing a person is born a specific way and remains that way generalizes the complex nature of sexuality and humanity as a whole. It’s about time we look at the bigger picture and not judge people solely for their right to live freely as a human being. “Choice” or no choice.

I like to think I am more than the newborn I once was.

 

anyways i hope that made sense.

 

anyways stream BTW 

im gonna be dragged. Pls have an open mind. Open to rebuttals

There isn't a gay gene because of epigenetics, like many other phenotypical human characteristics. You can't really equate sexuality with personality because one is innately physiological and the other is psychological, and only the latter is affected by your environment.

Maybe you can't choose what music you like or not, or what your personality is like, but it can change according to your life's experiences that push you in different directions. I can guarantee that a strictly gay-born person will always be gay no matter how much exposure they have to heterosexuality or sexual fluidity. 

When we say people are "born this way", we're not conditioning them to be that way forever, or judging them for it. We're simply just acknowledging their condition, no judgement involved.

And yes, many people are sexually and genderly fluid, but the genetic predisposition to be that way was born with them. Not everyone is capable of being fluid, because they weren't born fluid, and that's ok.

[littlepotter 74,599]

16 minutes ago, Suspiria said:

You didn't read the post did you

Literally.. I knew that would be the case

Consenting adults should be able to love and sleep with whoever they want... doesn't matter if they were born that way or not. Even if a woman who was straight her entire life decided at 40 to sleep with a woman, it's still her right to fo so because she's an adult, the "born this way" argument is just catering to conservatives amd asking them to please pity us because we can't change who we are. Well guess what I don't wanna change.

That said, Born This Way the song and album stand for more than that, as other pointed out.

[whoresup 1,902]

If you watch interviews from the era she explained many times that Born This Way doesn’t necessarily mean literally born like that. It means you are born with the potential to find your true identity and when you reach that point fight for that identity. 

Watch around 16 min mark 

[alsemanche 92,189]

2 minutes ago, pussycat said:

Ofc ur born gay/bi/.. I literally have a twin that’s straight, our lives were identical for 12 years. Explain that 

But also explain how there are identical twins who are not both gay  You're really oversimplifying a very complex aspect human beings that no one fully understands yet