Scotland is rich enough to be independent, independent think tank says

[Better Day 5,766]

31 minutes ago, Gogo Yubari said:

I believe you're entitled to your opinion and respectfully feel you can talk about whatever topic you want (as long as it's legal!). 

Though I've found some of your comments on Prince Phillip/Royals (the UK's first monarch was Scottish) and AstraZeneca a little "unsavory"  and think you've been made a victim of the bias regarding Indy Scotland being the new land of milk and honey, that's my issue and not yours.

Views and opinions should never be censored because nobody would ever learn if we did so. Having open, friendly debates is what makes us better as people.

From my point of view, an independent Scotland would have plenty of advantages and disadvantages. Though I kind of think life would just stay mostly the same for the everyday Scot (like Brexit).

It would be very interesting to see whether the SNP would divide into smaller parties and how this would affect UK elections with a sizeable chunk of seats gone. 

 

My views on them have been put to bed.  I don’t really care if the UK’s first monarch was Scottish. They are all money leeches. I am fully aware that they would be difficulties when Scotland becomes independent. 
 

That’s exactly why I create these threads to allow debates. I enjoy talking to people on here and hearing different views. 
 

Of course they are disadvantages however the advantages outweighs the negatives. 
 

All I’m going to say, the only way to get rid of the SNP is independence. People like me, left leaning people, wouldn’t touch Labour with a barge pole. 

[Better Day 5,766]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19260416.independent-scotland-start-large-budget-deficit/?fbclid=IwAR35r1iCWyey-tox-ZSBZIWMHazbWF8yJ5BcldA7d0jAmAC0KDSBJimTNf8
 

@Benji Ouch! 

[Benji 20,113]

11 minutes ago, Miss Dolly said:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19260416.independent-scotland-start-large-budget-deficit/?fbclid=IwAR35r1iCWyey-tox-ZSBZIWMHazbWF8yJ5BcldA7d0jAmAC0KDSBJimTNf8
 

@Benji Ouch! 

Ouch indeed!  A rebuttal that basically says if Scotland cuts back on everything including all of her defence she will have a little more money in her pocket... I could’ve told you that 

Why do all of these pro independence “fact checkers” think it’s a good idea to walk away from every commitment it has with the UK.  The UK is Scotland’s nearest neighbour and buys most of Scotland’s goods... walking away from an agreements over defence spending and trading would just ravage Scotland.  You cried about Brexit’s impact, imagine how rough it’ll be with no EU and no UK.

I also hate to break it to you but if Scotland pulled out of defence spending, a bill would still land on her doormat like it did for the UK during Brexit.  There’s always settlements to be paid.

[Better Day 5,766]

Just now, Benji said:

Ouch indeed!  A rebuttal that basically says if Scotland cuts back on everything including all of her defence she will have a little more money in her pocket... I could’ve told you that 

Why do all of these pro independence “fact checkers” think it’s a good idea to walk away from every commitment it has with the UK.  The UK is Scotland’s nearest neighbour and buys most of Scotland’s goods... walking away from an agreements over defence spending and trading would just ravage Scotland.  You cried about Brexit’s impact, imagine how rough it’ll be with no EU and no UK.

 Yet again, an Indy Scotland would have totally different spending priorities. You forget to mention that. 

Trident

Tory corruption

Monarch 

House of Lords

HS2 

Our percentage in our pocket. All the money made in Scotland would be kept in Scotland. 

[Benji 20,113]

5 minutes ago, Miss Dolly said:

 Yet again, an Indy Scotland would have totally different spending priorities. You forget to mention that. 

Trident

Tory corruption

Monarch 

House of Lords

HS2 

Our percentage in our pocket. All the money made in Scotland would be kept in Scotland. 

We’ve discussed already how Scotland receives more from the taxpayer than she taxes her people.  You can keep saying “our percentage in our pocket” and that’s fine but one day you’ll realise your taxes will have to be hiked up significantly to just carry on your current spending... even then it’s not covered.  Scotland will most likely want to cut a defence deal with UK regardless.  I don’t believe she has the capabilities to currently defend herself unless Sturgeon is ready to stump up for her own Scottish army, weaponry etc.

Scottish Independence is literally the same arguments for Brexit over and over again but even more destructive lmao

[Better Day 5,766]

2 minutes ago, Benji said:

We’ve discussed already how Scotland receives more from the taxpayer than she taxes her people.  You can keep saying “our percentage in our pocket” and that’s fine but one day you’ll realise your taxes will have to be hiked up significantly to just carry on your current spending... even then it’s not covered.  Scotland will most likely want to cut a defence deal with UK regardless.  I don’t believe she has the capabilities to currently defend herself unless Sturgeon is ready to stump up for her own Scottish army, weaponry etc.

Scottish Independence is literally the same arguments for Brexit over and over again but even more destructive lmao

You seem to forget. The GERS figures is our spending as part of the United Kingdom. The UK Government spending our money on our behalf. The Scottish Government itself has run a surplus budget as they cannot legally have a deficit. 
 

How is it the same arguments? The Brexit arguments were nothing but lies and propaganda. Scottish Independence was all costed and put out to the public in 2014 (The White Paper “Scotland’s Future”). The UK Government had no plan for Brexit. The SNP has a plan for Independence. 

[Fuffy 1,049]

36 minutes ago, Miss Dolly said:

My views on them have been put to bed.  I don’t really care if the UK’s first monarch was Scottish. They are all money leeches. I am fully aware that they would be difficulties when Scotland becomes independent. 
 

That’s exactly why I create these threads to allow debates. I enjoy talking to people on here and hearing different views. 
 

Of course they are disadvantages however the advantages outweighs the negatives. 
 

All I’m going to say, the only way to get rid of the SNP is independence. People like me, left leaning people, wouldn’t touch Labour with a barge pole. 

Oh no, I meant more what will happen to Scotland's political makeup if independence in granted. 

I'm curious what parties will Scotland have and how will politics change with the one issue out of the way.f

If independence does happen, I suspect there will probably be a brexit-style "hard/soft" option or split. That's where I think non-SNP parties will have an advantage.

[Benji 20,113]

3 minutes ago, Miss Dolly said:

You seem to forget. The GERS figures is our spending as part of the United Kingdom. The UK Government spending our money on our behalf. The Scottish Government itself has run a surplus budget as they cannot legally have a deficit. 
 

How is it the same arguments? The Brexit arguments were nothing but lies and propaganda. Scottish Independence was all costed and put out to the public in 2014 (The White Paper “Scotland’s Future”). The UK Government had no plan for Brexit. The SNP has a plan for Independence. 

You seem to forget, there will be a divorce bill that accounts for the UK’s investments into Scotland.  You seem to be under this disillusion Scotland breaks clean away with no debts but that is incorrect.  Even the UK had to pay towards its commitments in the EU that it had already taken.  Walking away without a deal with the UK and not paying the bill would be excruciating for Scotland.  The UK still has allies in the EU and could quite easily have them veto Scotland joining.  That way Scotland faces being locked out of the EU permanently until she settles her bill.

Everything you post always has a glaring fault.  This is no different than the red leave bus.

[FfFfFfFF 58,120]

3 hours ago, Gagasfirstnose said:

You understand most users here are American

Most users here are (Western) Europeans.

[Better Day 5,766]

3 minutes ago, Benji said:

You seem to forget, there will be a divorce bill that accounts for the UK’s investments into Scotland.  You seem to be under this disillusion Scotland breaks clean away with no debts but that is incorrect.  Even the UK had to pay towards its commitments in the EU that it had already taken.  Walking away without a deal with the UK and not paying the bill would be excruciating for Scotland.  The UK still has allies in the EU and could quite easily have them veto Scotland joining.  That way Scotland faces being locked out of the EU permanently until she settles her bill.

Everything you post always has a glaring fault.  This is no different than the red leave bus.

I am in support for an Indy Scotland to take on a portion of its debt as long as we get a portion of assets which seems like a fair deal. What I’ve said in the past, we have no legal obligation to take on the debt but we should take on a portion of debt but we shouldn’t pay it back until the UK pays their own debt back. 
 

How is it? I’ve done my research into both sides of the Indy argument. I knew exactly what I would be voting for in 2014. I am fully aware of the possible effects of Independence. Independence is normal. Plenty of countries have done it in the past. Plenty of similar sized countries in the world are successful independent countries. As I said, everything was costed and analysed and put into a white paper in 2014 for the public to read. In 2016 they were no white paper, they were just buzz words, corruption and lies. 

[Benji 20,113]

2 minutes ago, Miss Dolly said:

I am in support for an Indy Scotland to take on a portion of its debt as long as we get a portion of assets which seems like a fair deal. What I’ve said in the past, we have no legal obligation to take on the debt but we should take on a portion of debt but we shouldn’t pay it back until the UK pays their own debt back. 
 

How is it? I’ve done my research into both sides of the Indy argument. I knew exactly what I would be voting for in 2014. I am fully aware of the possible effects of Independence. Independence is normal. Plenty of countries have done it in the past. Plenty of similar sized countries in the world are successful independent countries. As I said, everything was costed and analysed and put into a white paper in 2014 for the public to read. In 2016 they were no white paper, they were just buzz words, corruption and lies. 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-have-underestimated-depth-of-independence-austerity-bmbvqbgph

[Better Day 5,766]

5 minutes ago, Benji said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-have-underestimated-depth-of-independence-austerity-bmbvqbgph

That takes into account the spending done on our behalf. Nobody can predict what spending would be like in an Indy Scotland. Austerity is a political choice, in any circumstance. In 2008 many many countries invested into their economies (US) and came out the other side. When the tories came to power in 2010 they imposed austerity onto the UK and the economy went south. They are no figures anywhere that doesn’t say Scotland wouldn’t be a successful wee European country. 

[Benji 20,113]

1 minute ago, Miss Dolly said:

That takes into account the spending done on our behalf. Nobody can predict what spending would be like in an Indy Scotland. Austerity is a political choice, in any circumstance. In 2008 many many countries invested into their economies (US) and came out the other side. When the tories came to power in 2010 they imposed austerity onto the UK and the economy went south. 

God this just goes in circles  You say “on your behalf” but whether it’s infrastructure, defence, investment, whatever... if it has benefited Scotland, it will be asked whether it wishes to continue to pay into a pool and support it with the UK or does it want to pay its bill and go it’s own way which I think it won’t.  Scotland is already struggling budget wise so it makes sense to contribute to the UK for shared defence etc.

As said, the UK had to do the same with the EU and Scotland will have to do the same with the UK.  If not, you face a “no deal” situation with the UK that would be a disaster for Scotland.

[Better Day 5,766]

3 minutes ago, Benji said:

God this just goes in circles  You say “on your behalf” but whether it’s infrastructure, defence, investment, whatever... if it has benefited Scotland, it will be asked whether it wishes to continue to pay into a pool and support it with the UK or does it want to pay its bill and go it’s own way which I think it won’t.  Scotland is already struggling budget wise so it makes sense to contribute to the UK for shared defence etc.

As said, the UK had to do the same with the EU and Scotland will have to do the same with the UK.  If not, you face a “no deal” situation with the UK that would be a disaster for Scotland.

It’s still on our behalf, we still fund HS2, trident, Serco Track and Trace (which doesn’t reach Scotland). Every single budget in the world is struggling ATM. Have you saw the debt the UK Government is in? We are not in a unique situation. They wouldn’t be a no deal unless the rUK are petty. The SNP has a plan, they had one in 2014 and they have one now. 

[Benji 20,113]

Just now, Miss Dolly said:

It’s still on our behalf, we still fund HS2, trident, Serco Track and Trace (which doesn’t reach Scotland). Every single budget in the world is struggling ATM. Have you saw the debt the UK Government is in? We are not in a unique situation. They wouldn’t be a no deal unless the rUK are petty. 

I feel like I’ve accounted for and replied to this already.  Again, yes everyone is struggling so why do you think the EU will absorb another struggler who would cause political chaos for its members when it’s just walked away with a massive deficit or worse, refused to pay its bill?  Madness, but good luck to you