Ajayii hating Sweetener

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, gabeoz said:

How are you going to say this... with Ari? I absolutely love her but please  she is THE mainstream popstar. People here aren't even acting like we're music experts? It's not like Ajay is Gaga's biggest fan either. In the end everyone is entitled to their opinion. You can't gatekeep music (well, you can try but youre just a total *sshole if you do). Everyone views music differently and has different tastes, its not to shame other people for. 

I don't think he is saying that she isn't mainstream. He's referring to the people who are criticizing someone else's like/disliking music in general, because they always make comments about someone's lack of taste when they likely only listen to mainstream music and don't venture outside of a particular genre or sound. And that kind of comment prominent in pop music forums in particular. Which I agree with. Obviously not the case for everyone here, but.

[kewig 34]

12 minutes ago, gabeoz said:

How are you going to say this... with Ari? I absolutely love her but please  she is THE mainstream popstar. People here aren't even acting like we're music experts? It's not like Ajay is Gaga's biggest fan either. In the end everyone is entitled to their opinion. You can't gatekeep music (well, you can try but youre just a total *sshole if you do). Everyone views music differently and has different tastes, its not to shame other people for. 

What bothered me is the fact that some pop stans make fun of Sweetener , and pretend it's an awful album when most of these same people will praise albums like ARTPOP or idk, Chromatica... It's not like those album are music masterpieces either. They're quite at  the same level. Sweetener isn't any worse. Or any better. ARTPOP isn't some groundbreaking experimental subversive body of work like most people on here claim. But it's a good pop album. Idk. I'm bad at expressing my thoughts.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, kewig said:

What bothered me is the fact that some pop stans make fun of Sweetener , and pretend it's an awful album when most of these same people will praise albums like ARTPOP or idk, Chromatica... It's not like those album are music masterpieces either. They're quite at  the same level. Sweetener isn't any worse. Or any better. ARTPOP isn't some groundbreaking experimental subversive body of work like most people on here claim. But it's a good pop album. Idk. I'm bad at expressing my thoughts.

[kewig 34]

18 minutes ago, Agunimon said:

I don't think he is saying that she isn't mainstream. He's referring to the people who are criticizing someone else's like/disliking music in general, because they always make comments about someone's lack of taste when they likely only listen to mainstream music and don't venture outside of a particular genre or sound. And that kind of comment prominent in pop music forums in particular. Which I agree with. Obviously not the case for everyone here, but.

Yes this what i meant, you said it more eloquently thank you. English isn't my first language so it's a bit hard sometimes.

[Oyster 2,458]

Sweetener is such a grower though, I think it’s such a good album 

[hELXIG 42,692]

Sweetener is my favourite Ari album...   I really don't understand the hate it gets

[FfFfFfFF 55,053]

5 hours ago, kewig said:

Most people who use these pop forums (ATRL, Gagadaily, Breatheheavy, FOTP etc) are HARDCORE pop music stans , they care so much about charts, "critical acclaim" (lol), certifications, statistics, pop cultural impact,  whether someone is a flop or not, they talk more about the success, marketing side of things , rather than THE SOUND or THE MUSIC. They reduce the value of an artist to the amount of #1s hits they had, or the amount of Grammys they won. It's just part of stan culture you know? I rarely see discussion purely about music on here. It's always a popularity contest. So like... Seeing people make fun of other people's music taste seems quite hypocritical when the discussions are rarely about music.

A lot of people just act like popularity and success = quality when there's absolutely no correlation whatsoever.

But this doesn't correlate with the situation because Sweetener has the critical acclaim, certifcations, streams, a  Grammy and is a pop album. Dangerous Woman on the other hand  doesn't have a Grammy and was less liked by the critics but it's still more liked by fans. Do you see how all these aspects don't correlate?

5 hours ago, kewig said:

Bjork and Kate Bush are very mainstream and well known...

They are well-known, but not mainstream. Kate Bush is mainstream to an extend but Bjork is the epitome of non-mainstream, weird and pure experimental music, and she still has fans despite this. It's not like Sweetener is a highly experimental and boundary pushing album that people don't like because it's too avant-garde. 

[FfFfFfFF 55,053]

5 hours ago, kewig said:

What bothered me is the fact that some pop stans make fun of Sweetener , and pretend it's an awful album when most of these same people will praise albums like ARTPOP or idk, Chromatica... It's not like those album are music masterpieces either. They're quite at  the same level. Sweetener isn't any worse. Or any better. ARTPOP isn't some groundbreaking experimental subversive body of work like most people on here claim. But it's a good pop album. Idk. I'm bad at expressing my thoughts.

And ARTPOP was seen more of flop than Sweetener when it was released so following your logic, fans should favour Sweetener over ARTPOP because Ariana was more popular around that time.

Again it seems like you are trying to paint the situation in favour of Sweetener by preteding it's too avant-gard for average listeners when it's really not the case, and transalte people not enjoying a POP album into people being having something against it and not wanting to enjoy for a reason or the other. 

ARTPOP and Chromatica are better crafted and better sounding than Sweetener, and I say this not because I only care about succes, stats or anything. It's because they subjectively sound better to me the same way Sweetener sounds better to you. There is no need to push alternate narratives to solidify your like or dislike for something..

[kewig 34]

15 hours ago, FfFfFfFF said:

But this doesn't correlate with the situation because Sweetener has the critical acclaim, certifcations, streams, a  Grammy and is a pop album. Dangerous Woman on the other hand  doesn't have a Grammy and was less liked by the critics but it's still more liked by fans. Do you see how all these aspects don't correlate?

You need to stop thinking that artists need to win Grammys in order to make a cultural impact, you don't need to win any award to be musically influential. This is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Award shows are nothing but a promotional circle jerk for “the business” and always have been. It's just a tool for the mainstream megacorp music labels like Universal Music Group to promote their products/artists. They never nominate artists who aren't part of the Universal Music Group spectrum. Bob Marley never won ANY grammys, he never had a number one single, yet he is probably more legendary and globally famous than a lot of people who have won grammys. Do you think The Chainsmokers and Megan Trainot are more important than Bob Marley?

There are so many people in the world just as deserving that we may never discover because they haven’t been packaged up and marketed to the masses.

The Grammys are worthless because not only do they judge and award one of the most highly subjective areas of art, but it’s done in an even more disrespectful way because people make it out to be like the most accurate, god-like accolade you can receive when they only reward the artists that are popular, will bring in money, and aren’t too dangerous.

 

[Stupid Oreo 14,248]

someone post the chromatica one in here too

[Yxilon 5,248]

The only decent thing about Sweetener are the three singles and maybe the intro Raindrops 

[js4754394o9823 6,882]

20 hours ago, kewig said:

What bothered me is the fact that some pop stans make fun of Sweetener , and pretend it's an awful album when most of these same people will praise albums like ARTPOP or idk, Chromatica... It's not like those album are music masterpieces either. They're quite at  the same level. Sweetener isn't any worse. Or any better. ARTPOP isn't some groundbreaking experimental subversive body of work like most people on here claim. But it's a good pop album. Idk. I'm bad at expressing my thoughts.

ARTPOP and Chromatica are concept albums with a story, not random songs put together

That alone make them better to me

But whatever u like, I'm not shading anyone or anything

[Chesescake 3,928]

1 hour ago, kukuryku666 said:

ARTPOP and Chromatica are concept albums with a story, not random songs put together

Yeah they are concept album, but that doesn't make album itself more superior, concept album can be bad too. That why some little monster had problem with ARTPOP, maybe its catchy and got personality and ambition, but it didn't showout the picture Gaga try to picturing very well.

To me Sweetener is as good as Chromatica. Because no matter what concept it's got (even not concept album,) if it's good, it's good.

[kewig 34]

2 hours ago, kukuryku666 said:

ARTPOP and Chromatica are concept albums with a story, not random songs put together

That alone make them better to me

But whatever u like, I'm not shading anyone or anything

All i care about is the sound and the music. You can have the most interesting, complex and deep concept ever, the best visuals, the best fashion, if none of the music is reflective of it then what's the point? If the music is underwhelming then you're just wasting a good concept.

It's like, some artists use concepts as a way to compensate for the lack of flavor/substance.

 

[FfFfFfFF 55,053]

5 hours ago, kewig said:

You need to stop thinking that artists need to win Grammys in order to make a cultural impact, you don't need to win any award to be musically influential. This is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Award shows are nothing but a promotional circle jerk for “the business” and always have been. It's just a tool for the mainstream megacorp music labels like Universal Music Group to promote their products/artists. They never nominate artists who aren't part of the Universal Music Group spectrum. Bob Marley never won ANY grammys, he never had a number one single, yet he is probably more legendary and globally famous than a lot of people who have won grammys. Do you think The Chainsmokers and Megan Trainot are more important than Bob Marley?

There are so many people in the world just as deserving that we may never discover because they haven’t been packaged up and marketed to the masses.

 

I literally never said that so I don't understand why you direct this text at me. I don't think you are saying in these paragraphs is wrong. 

I was only using that as an example because you said people on pop forums care about Grammys and not the sound itself - to defend Sweetner - when it actually has a Grammy.