Nina Turner: Voting for Biden like eating half a bowl of sh*t

[HeavyMetalLover 16]

3 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

I guess we see the strategic political maneuvering differently. Right now Biden is supposedly up by double digits. The Green party can shave off enough votes to get them the presence they need in 2024 without forcing an electoral loss for Biden. Whereas, the election in 2024 may be much tighter because the republicans may not have a completely incompetent baboon as their nominee. In fact, I argue that it may be less strategically sound to vote Green in 2024 if they do not have an increased presence as a result of 2020. 

To be clear, if Biden was only up by 1-3 points I wouldn't be so adamant about voting Green as I am but considering where he is right now, I think it's much more safe than it was in say February to consider defecting to the Green party. 

I think you might be assuming that Biden is going to win in November. That's probably a mistake. If I learned anything from 2016, it's that polls mean absolutely nothing on election day. Trump could very well be reelected. Nothing is safe, in my opinion.

And I assume the GOP will have nothing but incompetent baboons and worse until they are dissolved completely as a party.

[Franch Toast 27,737]

I want to see Biden elected (not because I love Biden, but because Trump is an abomination), but I don't like vote shaming, either, so vote for whomever your moral compass tells you to vote for, which is your right. I also think most people's minds aren't going to be changed by chatting on a pop culture forum about Lady Gaga. For US citizens on this site, however, I do encourage you to get out and vote even if you don't like any of the the choices at the top – down-ballot races are extremely important as well. 

Also, I just have three words for y'all: Ruth Bader Ginsberg. 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

7 minutes ago, HeavyMetalLover said:

That's actually not what I think - the two party system is broken. I'm thinking in terms of what will be less harmful immediately. Nor do I blame Trump for every failure in society, but he has undeniably done unprecedented amounts of harm to our country in record time. He is the focus: stopping his reign of terror, sending a message that Americans aren't willing to put up with Neo Nazi trash, saving lives from his incompetence and apathy. These, and many other issues, are what we should be focused on voting out. It's a start, and certainly not a cure-all.

I'm not sure why it is assumed that things will get so bad by 2024 (isn't it hellish enough right now?) that the general public will turn to the Green Party. Sadly, I'm not sure we are there yet or will be for some time. I do hear what you're saying though; I wish I could see that as a realistic course, but I don't in my opinion. And who's to say that another, even worse bigot won't be elected after a two-term Trump presidency? Or that Trump won't try to stay for a third term? Or that he will even leave if voted out this year?

I guess my question is, how to make the Green Party, or any other alternative option to the two party system, popular with the general public? Is this even possible in America?

I guess my question is, how to make the Green Party, or any other alternative option to the two party system, popular with the general public? Is this even possible in America?

We will never know if nobody is willing to try it. I don't actually know that it can happen but if we always box ourselves into the situation of not voting republican because their ideology is so beyond inhumane that I can't fathom why people feel that way and voting democratic exclusively because regardless of how terrible their candidate is that it's not necessarily as bad as the republican on issue X or Y. 

Also I do apologize if there was a bit of typecasting on my part. I am happy that you and I can agree the system is broken, that Trump isn't responsible for every bad that has happened. That's a good start. 

That said, the cages at the border originated in the Obama/Biden administration. Biden is for the patriot act. So, yes, Trump may have pushed the envelope even further to the point that we are truly in a fascist state but Biden is also fine with governing the US as a surveillance state. Either way, the opportunity to push America even further to the right-authoritarian sphere is STILL there even with a Biden presidency. So I just think that people who are going to vote for Biden should stop romanticizing what Biden stands for and what he means for our country (this is not directed specifically to you but in general). 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

4 minutes ago, HeavyMetalLover said:

I think you might be assuming that Biden is going to win in November. That's probably a mistake. If I learned anything from 2016, it's that polls mean absolutely nothing on election day. Trump could very well be reelected. Nothing is safe, in my opinion.

And I assume the GOP will have nothing but incompetent baboons and worse until they are dissolved completely as a party.

I just want to clarify. I do agree that we can't assume Biden is going to win; however, as of right now, it is markedly so. Early voting will be starting soon and the fact that Trump is so far behind with seniors relative to 2016 is an indication that he's likely going to lose. It's the most reliable voting block and they are overwhelmingly behind Biden right now. 

 

That said, if they pass the next stimulus and things really change rapidly and if it appears that things are getting better, it may be time to reevaluate it. But as of right now, Trump is so far behind and Biden is more ahead than Clinton ever was period. The situation doesn't look like to me that Trump can turn this thing around fast enough. The race will 100% tighten before November but if Biden is up by 12 (ish) right now, the needle is still going to likely move to where Biden has a 5/6 pt national lead. That is large enough to where Trump won't be able to lose the popular vote but win the electoral college. 

[Whispering 18,865]

A vote for anyone but Biden is a vote for Trump. 

Don't complain about Trump winning, if you helped vote him into office. 

[NathanC 938]

I read Tina Turner as well. Sorry, Mariah Carey on with the debate.

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

2 hours ago, HorusRa2 said:

Ok. So I'm self-righteous for expressing my opinion. 

I find it so hilarious that you always show contempt for me when my entire political ideology is about supporting the multiracial working class and not billionaire oligarchs. 

Your self righteous because you think you are morally superior to everyone else. I mean, is there another definition?

[HorusRa2 5,005]

9 minutes ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

Your self righteous because you think you are morally superior to everyone else. I mean, is there another definition?

At what point did I say that I was superior than anybody? I didn't. Just because you would prefer bullying me into voting for Biden and for me to compromise on my values because the only thing you care about is Trump getting removed from office, that doesn't make me self-righteous to have a different opinion than you. 

However, when you continuously and over the course of the past year have attempted to bully and shame me for having my political ideology and what I intend to vote for, who is really the one that is self-righteous? 

[ShtoopidLahv 710]

1 hour ago, CameltoeKween said:

I'm not suggesting you're privileged for wanting to see a president who is willing to stop all of the things you listed.

I am saying you're privileged because you are able to take your stance without seeing/accepting that the first step towards that progress you seek is a Trump-free presidency. I am saying you're privileged because you are able to think by voting green this election, you will make a difference and open the door for change.

There is a massive difference between moral positioning and strategic political navigation. A vote for green after Biden's potential term is so much more impactful than a vote for green in this election.

You’re going to say this again when it’s Hawley running in 2024 and again when some other neofascist/neocon trash runs in 2028. An endless bait and switch routine. Stop voter shaming the people actually going out to vote and instead put more effort into waking up the 40% of people not voting (unless you maybe will finally realize why they’re not actually voting and understand the pointlessness of voting for the lesser of two evils). 

[ShtoopidLahv 710]

20 minutes ago, Whispering said:

A vote for anyone but Biden is a vote for Trump. 

Don't complain about Trump winning, if you helped vote him into office. 

A vote for anyone but Trump is a vote for Biden by that same logic... 

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

16 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

At what point did I say that I was superior than anybody? I didn't. Just because you would prefer bullying me into voting for Biden and for me to compromise on my values because the only thing you care about is Trump getting removed from office, that doesn't make me self-righteous to have a different opinion than you. 

However, when you continuously and over the course of the past year have attempted to bully and shame me for having my political ideology and what I intend to vote for, who is really the one that is self-righteous? 

Look I'm not trying to bullying you. But let's be honest, not voting for Biden benefits no one except for Trump at this point. It's an irrational reaction to the primaries. You might as well vote for Kanye. The party is supposed to unite after the primaries, not splinter.

[Gabe 2,587]

Better than a full bowl of ****.

[HorusRa2 5,005]

Just now, JusKeepBreathin said:

Look I'm not trying to bullying you. But let's be honest, not voting for Biden benefits no one except for Trump at this point. It's an irrational reaction to the primaries. You might as well vote for Kanye. The party is supposed to unite after the primaries, not splinter. 

Okay. So if you think the party should unite, do you think that it would be appropriate for the DNC and Biden folks to compromise on something to appease the progressive coalition? If so, why do you think that the party continues to refuse to make any real policy concessions and why should progressives vote with the party if that is the case? 

Like honestly all I am asking for is medicare for all and the green new deal. Preferably I would like Joe's stance on Israel vs Palestine to be different, his approach to trade and china among other issues. However, there is zero indication to me that Biden's administration is going to make the concessions I'm looking for and I think that is appropriate to demand. In fact, as I understand it, there are Bernie delegates who plan to vote against the platform if it does not include medicare for all. 

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/27/bernie-supporters-medicare-single-payer-381972 

[Lion Heart 15,041]

Please vote Trump out guys. We can't have Trump get a third Conservative Supreme Court Justice.  

[Harris Walz 2024 1,451]

She's a nobody.