Nina Turner: Voting for Biden like eating half a bowl of sh*t

[HorusRa2 5,005]

58 minutes ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

I'm voting green. Self Righteous. Ridiculous. Absurd. Disheartening. Self Destructive. Worst of all, it serves no purpose.  

Ok. So I'm self-righteous for expressing my opinion. 

I find it so hilarious that you always show contempt for me when my entire political ideology is about supporting the multiracial working class and not billionaire oligarchs. 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

1 hour ago, M Monstre said:

Well, I suppose your concerns are about who he chooses for his VP as well. Let's wait and see who he chooses. I do agree that whoever his VP is, that will be Dems top priority for who will "lead" the Democratic Party in future elections, but since he hasn't publicly spoken about who his VP pick is, I think we have to wait and see before we can make certain judgments. 

Even if Dems keep the House and flip the Senate, those are two variables that cannot necessarily be accounted for. To ensure that that happens we have to vote, and we must vote Democrat. And even if that happens, I wouldn't be quick to say that we'd just be able to endure 4 more years of Trump. Even if we get the House and the Senate, this president has shown that he holds the law to no regard. Sure, right now he's got the backing of the Senate, but depending on how much we can flip the Senate and by how much we can keep the House, Republicans in both chambers will still fight like hell, especially if Turmp is still president. I'd much rather have Dems keep the House, take the Senate, and then take the presidency as well. Republicans have gone too far and I want as little power for them as possible. 

As for the Green New Deal and climate change reform, I agree that that should be a top priority for every politician, but voting for the Green Party isn't necessarily going to change that. Third parties today just don't have the power necessary to make those changes. At least with Biden, he and Bernie have worked some things out. I'm not saying Biden is 100% for anything even remotely similar to what Bernie has proposed in the psat, but he's at the very least going to be better than Trump when it comes to climate change.

As for the VP pick, we know the short list and progressives ideologically oppose all of them, especially Kamala who I am almost willing to be will be the VP pick. 

You can vote Green for the presidential ticket and vote democrat down ballot. It's not an all or nothing situation. That's what I'm likely to do. 

Biden and Bernie's task forces did come to an agreement on climate, sure. It doesn't do enough and is the only somewhat positive thing I've seen so far. 

Third parties will never have power if the thought is always that they don't have power. The only way they get power is if people vote for them. I understand that you're saying that this election cycle it is a foregone conclusion that the Green's won't win the presidency; however, they only need to win a %age to get federal funding and make the debate stages for the first time. By always denying them your vote, you will always deny them any power. 

That's all I'm trying to say & this isn't directed at you specifically but I just find it so mind boggling that I have to defend my opinions to the extent that I do when all I support are means to expand access to healthcare and education, reduce corruption through secure elections, scale back our Military so we aren't destroying other countries and increase taxes on the rich to fund investment in infrastructure, healthcare, education and social programs. There's literally nothing evil about that unless you think that the ultra rich should continue to be given the power to control everything and force oppressive capitalism on working and poor people who are disproportionately black and brown. 

 

[MJHolland 12,725]

not college educated white liberals flirting with giving tr*mp 4 more years in office 

[Delulu Rogers 7,664]

What is so bad about Biden that everyone hates?

[raragaga 8,119]

People in the public eye need to stop saying this sht. We have no other choice. And if people keep saying this, morons who hear it aren't going to vote.

[imnotyourbabe10 6,120]

Bernie said to vote for Biden so I'll do that.  Was really sad to see him drop out earlier on this year but it is what it is.  Sucks we have really come to "Which rapist are you voting for?" in our politics.

[HorusRa2 5,005]

21 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

not college educated white liberals flirting with giving tr*mp 4 more years in office 

leftist* 

socialist*

 

I'm not a "liberal." 

[HeavyMetalLover 16]

3 hours ago, President Biden said:

But if you care that much, yes I am not a Democrat. I registered for the sake of voting in the primary for Joe Biden 

Joe, what? 

 

2 hours ago, HorusRa2 said:

a Trump presidency is something we can endure for 4 more years.

Either way, whether Trump wins or Biden wins that is a cost we are going to have to deal with and both paths that lead to Biden or Trump will lead to enormous costs, thousands, maybe millions dead and a complete upheaval of our society.

Enduring 4 more years of Trump spells certain death. How many hundreds of thousands will die as a result of him continuing to stay in office? I don't see how Biden would be as or more detrimental, causing as many or more deaths as Trump already has or potentially will.

I get that we all want to vote with our heart, and what we stand for, but this is not the election for that. The system is flawed, and we need the numbers to show our support, even if you think your vote is insignificant. It's about defeating Trump and the his white supremacist party. That's step 1. You don't have to like Biden, but you should consider liking him more than Trump, and to vote for him.

[Cameltoe Chariot 15,310]

5 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

leftist* 

socialist*

 

I'm not a "liberal." 

At the very least you're incredibly privileged to be able to vote with your steadfast morals, and not see this upcoming election for the very dire situation it is.

As a non-American, it is incredibly infuriating to see Americans like you be so stubborn and self-centred in your political opinions. This election outcome affects so many lives, so many different economies, so many different countries... and the fact that you can't see this race for presidency for what it really is, is frankly disturbing.

By all means, if you're more comfortable voting Green, then that's your choice. But that choice also comes with the anger and frustration from the rest of your country (and the world) who see the warning signs, that know another term from Trump means irreparable collapse in American society and government, and that can also do the math and see the only way to prevent this is by adding votes to Biden's side.

[HorusRa2 5,005]

3 minutes ago, HeavyMetalLover said:

Joe, what? 

 

Enduring 4 more years of Trump spells certain death. How many hundreds of thousands will die as a result of him continuing to stay in office? I don't see how Biden would be as or more detrimental, causing as many or more deaths as Trump already has or potentially will.

I get that we all want to vote with our heart, and what we stand for, but this is not the election for that. The system is flawed, and we need the numbers to show our support, even if you think your vote is insignificant. It's about defeating Trump and the his white supremacist party. That's step 1. You don't have to like Biden, but you should consider liking him more than Trump, and to vote for him.

You do realize that the following sentence is what they always say with re: elections. "I get that we all want to vote with our heart, and what we stand for, but this is not the election for that."

Let's just talk about our current situation with Covid-19. Democrats and Republicans both voted with earnest to give 4 trillion dollars to the markets and continue to squabble about whether or not to give people who were forced on unemployment (by the government issuing the shut down) more unemployment even though there is now permanent job loss that won't be coming back for YEARS even if people start going out and buying goods and services. Because the job losses have already occurred, the consumer spending will not go back to what it was. We are facing a homeless epidemic that is on the way because the government is unwilling provide relief to people. You can argue that this is all Trump's fault and it is to the extent that the white house dominated the negotiations that are occurring today but the democrats didn't fight or push back on what was done. In the Obama/Biden administration, they bailed out the banks and allowed for people to lose their homes (the housing crisis was only 12 years ago people). There are people who were still recovering from that crisis before this one has occurred and Biden was part of the problem then and has not changed his political ideology since. This means he's not going to be some sort of savior who is able to turn back the clock so we live in the so-called glory days of the Obama administration. I know you guys seem to think that getting Trump out is going to fix everything but it's not. And Biden does not have the political motivations or courage to do what will be necessary. Providing Biden the presidency so that the right will get to tell the american people that Biden and the democrats failed them (which would be true) so we can elect a more competent right winger that will be worse than Trump will 100% be on the way. I know that is a lot of conjecture but of one thing I am sure: Biden is not going to save the working class from the depression that is 100% here and is here to stay for the next decade if not longer. Voting for Biden is not going to prevent that and neither is voting for Trump. The only way forward (again in my view) is to force change upon the system. If that means getting the Green party to be relevant in 2024 instead of winning the presidency for Biden in 2020, I think that's worth it considering where things are today. 

If Biden and the DNC constructed a platform that least on the economics showed more progressive shifts then I would be fine with voting for him even though I think he's an even worst war hawk than even Trump (who is just inconsistent at best here). But they aren't. They aren't going to change the platform to a more "Bernie" wing of the party. They are going to tell us that the Bernie wing does not exist and continue the same problems that led us to Trump in the first place. 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

7 minutes ago, CameltoeKween said:

At the very least you're incredibly privileged to be able to vote with your steadfast morals, and not see this upcoming election for the very dire situation it is.

As a non-American, it is incredibly infuriating to see Americans like you be so stubborn and self-centred in your political opinions. This election outcome affects so many lives, so many different economies, so many different countries... and the fact that you can't see this race for presidency for what it really is, is frankly disturbing.

By all means, if you're more comfortable voting Green, then that's your choice. But that choice also comes with the anger and frustration from the rest of your country (and the world) who see the warning signs, that know another term from Trump means irreparable collapse in American society and government, and that can also do the math and see the only way to prevent this is by adding votes to Biden's side.

As a non-american, I would have thought you would have understood that Biden and Trump will both have devastating consequences abroad. Both are more than happy to increase tensions with China and continue a policy of bombing places like Syria and the middle east. More than happy to let the Israeli's continue to devastate the Palestinian people and for you to suggest that I am privileged because I want to see a president who is willing to stop all of that is really incredulous to me. 

[Cameltoe Chariot 15,310]

2 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

As a non-american, I would have thought you would have understood that Biden and Trump will both have devastating consequences abroad. Both are more than happy to increase tensions with China and continue a policy of bombing places like Syria and the middle east. More than happy to let the Israeli's continue to devastate the Palestinian people and for you to suggest that I am privileged because I want to see a president who is willing to stop all of that is really incredulous to me. 

I'm not suggesting you're privileged for wanting to see a president who is willing to stop all of the things you listed.

I am saying you're privileged because you are able to take your stance without seeing/accepting that the first step towards that progress you seek is a Trump-free presidency. I am saying you're privileged because you are able to think by voting green this election, you will make a difference and open the door for change.

There is a massive difference between moral positioning and strategic political navigation. A vote for green after Biden's potential term is so much more impactful than a vote for green in this election.

[littlepotter 76,612]

15 hours ago, Adakam said:

And voting for Bernie wouldve been like eating from an empty bowl, you know, just like people in socialist countries see their bowls everyday.

 read a book

[HeavyMetalLover 16]

1 minute ago, HorusRa2 said:

I know you guys seem to think that getting Trump out is going to fix everything but it's not. And Biden does not have the political motivations or courage to do what will be necessary. Providing Biden the presidency so that the right will get to tell the american people that Biden and the democrats failed them (which would be true) so we can elect a more competent right winger that will be worse than Trump will 100% be on the way.

That's actually not what I think - the two party system is broken. I'm thinking in terms of what will be less harmful immediately. Nor do I blame Trump for every failure in society, but he has undeniably done unprecedented amounts of harm to our country in record time. He is the focus: stopping his reign of terror, sending a message that Americans aren't willing to put up with Neo Nazi trash, saving lives from his incompetence and apathy. These, and many other issues, are what we should be focused on voting out. It's a start, and certainly not a cure-all.

3 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

The only way forward (again in my view) is to force change upon the system. If that means getting the Green party to be relevant in 2024 instead of winning the presidency for Biden in 2020, I think that's worth it considering where things are today. 

If Biden and the DNC constructed a platform that least on the economics showed more progressive shifts then I would be fine with voting for him even though I think he's an even worst war hawk than even Trump (who is just inconsistent at best here). But they aren't. They aren't going to change the platform to a more "Bernie" wing of the party. They are going to tell us that the Bernie wing does not exist and continue the same problems that led us to Trump in the first place. 

I'm not sure why it is assumed that things will get so bad by 2024 (isn't it hellish enough right now?) that the general public will turn to the Green Party. Sadly, I'm not sure we are there yet or will be for some time. I do hear what you're saying though; I wish I could see that as a realistic course, but I don't in my opinion. And who's to say that another, even worse bigot won't be elected after a two-term Trump presidency? Or that Trump won't try to stay for a third term? Or that he will even leave if voted out this year?

I guess my question is, how to make the Green Party, or any other alternative option to the two party system, popular with the general public? Is this even possible in America?

[HorusRa2 5,005]

1 minute ago, CameltoeKween said:

I'm not suggesting you're privileged for wanting to see a president who is willing to stop all of the things you listed.

I am saying you're privileged because you are able to take your stance without seeing/accepting that the first step towards that progress you seek is a Trump-free presidency. I am saying you're privileged because you are able to think by voting green this election, you will make a difference and open the door for change.

There is a massive difference between moral positioning and strategic political navigation. A vote for green after Biden's potential term is so much more impactful than a vote for green in this election.

I guess we see the strategic political maneuvering differently. Right now Biden is supposedly up by double digits. The Green party can shave off enough votes to get them the presence they need in 2024 without forcing an electoral loss for Biden. Whereas, the election in 2024 may be much tighter because the republicans may not have a completely incompetent baboon as their nominee. In fact, I argue that it may be less strategically sound to vote Green in 2024 if they do not have an increased presence as a result of 2020. 

To be clear, if Biden was only up by 1-3 points I wouldn't be so adamant about voting Green as I am but considering where he is right now, I think it's much more safe than it was in say February to consider defecting to the Green party.