J.K. Rowling defends speaking out on trans issues

[GagaSine 7,464]

2 minutes ago, Hurem said:

Do you realize that you don't have to completely agree or disagree with someone?  Y'all are too damn much.  

Okay but when you agree with a concept that materially hurts trans people it’s not that much a stretch to call it transphobic 

[Hurem 17,797]

Just now, GagaSine said:

I would love to hear how non binary identities plays into cancel culture  indigenous two spirit and Indian hijra are on the tips of their toes in anticipation 

Are you gonna pretend like you ever saw anyone talk about non binary identities prior to 2013?  I'm not denying there were people who don't identify as one of the two genders in the past, but y'all pretending like people were calling themselves for decades is hilarious. (Yeah, I know there have been some, but the Tumblr era of non binary is different).

It plays into cancel culture because if you don't agree with them, they automatically "cancel" you, threaten you, if you're someone influential, they'll most likely try and doxx you. It's extremely toxic and violent. 

[Regina George 59,387]

5 minutes ago, Gagaloo911 said:

Nah fam what's dangerous is this ignorant author's continued assault on trans people when they already have high harrassment, assault, and murder rates within their community. 

She really wants to sabotage and tear down her legacy for this? When the credible scientists out there who actually care about this community say something different? 

Just as Daniel Radcliffe said when he made her entire argument null and void, we should be lifting trans voices up and helping them, not tearing them down and attacking the legitimacy of their identities.

JK Rowling deserves what's coming for her if she continues to double down like this and go after the trans community. 

I’m sorry but did you even read what she wrote in that statement? I don’t care for her to be completely honest but I hate the fact that majority of people in this thread didn’t even read what she wrote and are arguing with me making false accusations about me and this text. What she wrote is definitely not support for trans community and it’s definitely not hate towards them. She neutrally explained reasoning behind her tweet and her opinions by giving real statistics and real facts. I’m just saying that what she wrote is not her being transphobic. That text is not transphobic. Maybe she is, but judging by that text she didn’t say anything that could be translated as transphobia. 

[Gagaloo911 12,959]

5 minutes ago, Hurem said:

I'm not comparing gender to animals. I just don't agree with the whole idea of "non-binary" that got popularized with the rise of Tumblrinas. I'm very well aware that people can feel like both male/female, but like I said, their whole shtick is way too extreme and perfectly plays in into cancel culture (which I wholeheartedly hate).

I believe there are only two main genders (and before you say it, I'm not erasing trans people. They're also one of the two).

Two Spirit people of the indigenous Native American peoples, and countless other cultures in history with more than 2 genders found dead in a ditch and nonexistent.

Or at least your own ignorance on the topic is showing considering more than 2 genders has essentially always existed in cultures 

[Mister Gaga 21,894]

Just now, GagaSine said:

So you don’t want to read any trans literature? 

I do, however i think you were going to provide it for another user. I was not, at the beginning of the debate, the one you were adressing. But i'd be glad to have titles or names to read in the future, as i become interested on the issue. 

[GagaSine 7,464]

Just now, Regina George said:

I’m sorry but did you even read what she wrote in that statement? I don’t care for her to be completely honest but I hate the fact that majority of people in this thread didn’t even read what she wrote and are arguing with me making false accusations about me and this text. What she wrote is definitely not support for trans community and it’s definitely not hate towards them. She neutrally explained reasoning behind her tweet and her opinions by giving real statistics and real facts. I’m just saying that what she wrote is not her being transphobic. That text is not transphobic. Maybe she is, but judging by that text she didn’t say anything that could be translated as transphobia. 

She did tho...

[Regina George 59,387]

4 minutes ago, Gagaloo911 said:

"I want to be very clear here: I know transition will be a solution for some gender dysphoric people, although I’m also aware through extensive research that studies have consistently shown that between 60-90% of gender dysphoric teens will grow out of their dysphoria."

In so many words that's exactly what she saying when you consider the fact gender dysphoria is a mental health condition in the DSM, and trans people are generally diagnosed as having that at least initially.

Okay but why is it transphobic if what she wrote are scientifically proven facts? Let’s look at the real research first and then let’s come for her if what she said is not true.

[Regina George 59,387]

1 minute ago, GagaSine said:

She did tho...

What exactly? I’m ready to read (again) and to change my mind if you’re right. 

[Hurem 17,797]

1 minute ago, Gagaloo911 said:

Two Spirit people of the indigenous Native American peoples, and countless other cultures in history with more than 2 genders found dead in a ditch and nonexistent.

Or at least your own ignorance on the topic is showing considering more than 2 genders has essentially always existed in cultures 

I wonder what percentage of the world identifies as something other than one of the 2 genders.  

[NewUsername 10,412]

2 hours ago, KanyeWest said:

"But, as many women have said before me, ‘woman’ is not a costume. ‘Woman’ is not an idea in a man’s head. ‘Woman’ is not a pink brain, a liking for Jimmy Choos or any of the other sexist ideas now somehow touted as progressive. Moreover, the ‘inclusive’ language that calls female people ‘menstruators’ and ‘people with vulvas’ strikes many women as dehumanising and demeaning. "

I somewhat agree with this tho

I get what she's trying to say, but she actually isn't.

It isn't a 'costume' to trans people either, which she seems to fail to understand.
The experience of 'being a woman' is more than just what genitals you have. Ironically, she actually understands this, because she talks about the experience and hardships of a woman in society, but then suddenly forgets it when talking about trans women.
 

2 hours ago, KanyeWest said:

Again this was in the context of calling women 'menstruators'. It's dehumanizing, do u not agree?

She has like half a point here, if terms like these are used in a sexist or dehumanizing way.
The article is still full of mess, though. And didn't most of all this stem of her tweet with that condescending tone about "I don't know, maybe there's another word like w-, women?" ? That same tweet where she commented this way about an article that EXACTLY talks about menstruation. In this context, it's not dehumanizing at all to say "women who menstruate" and yet she felt the need to ridiculize the term and be transphobic in this specific situation.

 

2 hours ago, Fish said:

human rights. as if as soon as you throw that word your opinion becomes the only valid one. sorry, human rights are complex issues. even if i agree with you on the majority of your points, your rhetoric is actually dangerous. sorry not sorry 

So you think that things like racism and homophobia fall under the 'opinion' category?  
 

4 hours ago, thierryrreiht said:

Not reading that

Imagine causing such an outrage and then writing a whole ass essay and still not at least first apologize to the pain you've caused, before trying to explain your points. She's too much.

[Gagaloo911 12,959]

10 minutes ago, Regina George said:

I’m sorry but did you even read what she wrote in that statement? I don’t care for her to be completely honest but I hate the fact that majority of people in this thread didn’t even read what she wrote and are arguing with me making false accusations about me and this text. What she wrote is definitely not support for trans community and it’s definitely not hate towards them. She neutrally explained reasoning behind her tweet and her opinions by giving real statistics and real facts. I’m just saying that what she wrote is not her being transphobic. That text is not transphobic. Maybe she is, but judging by that text she didn’t say anything that could be translated as transphobia. 

I did read a good amount of it but honestly parts of it were so questionable and problematic I lost my patience with it.

I suppose you could say it may not be explicitly transphobic, certainly not explicitly hateful, but just read between the lines a little. What is this ultimately communicating, especially to the trans community?

I'm not even trans and what I take from that is she doesn't care about the trans people, they don't matter and are illegitmate, and that she is more worried about furthering her own agenda and (incorrect) opinion than lifting up a community that is attacked and degraded repeatedly every single day. 

She is so worried about her own definition of womanhood and making it look like she's right that she's completely forgetting that the trans community is another oppressed and vulnerable community just trying to survive and live their lives.

Why can't she just let them??

Why does she have such a major grudge against them that she must repeatedly attack them rather than try to lift them up?

She's completely missing the point and only doubling down further into a hole that will ultimately bury her if she continues on this course. 

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

We luv ha again  

[JohnnyVersace 8,590]

Dumbass, truly. Her "reasons" are so biased. 

[GagaSine 7,464]

11 minutes ago, Mister Gaga said:

I do, however i think you were going to provide it for another user. I was not, at the beginning of the debate, the one you were adressing. But i'd be glad to have titles or names to read in the future, as i become interested on the issue. 

Well thank you I appreciate that. I will gladly curate a list for you it will just take a bit. A good place to start is Catherine McKinnon for truly understanding misogyny which of course feeds into trans misogyny, but that is a lot to read/take in 

https://readcatharinemackinnon.wordpress.com

 

[Regina George 59,387]

1 minute ago, Gagaloo911 said:

I did read a good amount of it but honestly parts of it were so questionable and problematic I lost my patience with it.

I suppose you could say it may not be explicitly transphobic, certainly not explicitly hateful, but just read between the lines a little. What is this ultimately communicating, especially to the trans community?

I'm not even trans and what I take from that is she doesn't care about the trans people and is more worried about furthering her own agenda and (incorrect) opinion than lifting up a community that is attacked and degraded repeatedly every single day. 

She is so worried about her own definition of womanhood and making it look like she's right that she's completely forgetting that the trans community is another oppressed and vulnerable community just trying to survive and live their lives.

Why can't she just let them??

Why does she have such a major grudge against them that she must repeatedly attack them rather than try to lift them up?

She's completely missing the point and only doubling down further into a hole that will ultimately bury her if she continues on this course. 

First of all you’re saying you didn’t read the whole thing which tome says that you cannot judge the full text by 3 paragraphs you wrote. 

The ONLY message she is trying to communicate is: “Changing sex/gender was proven to work for some people and they ended up being happy which I support BUT there is majority of people who regretted it and I am trying to find out why and how we can help those people.” 

That’s literally the summary of her text. 

Everything can be interpreted as hateful if we try hard to make it something that it’s not.

I’m not protecting her, I’m trying to say that people need to read and actually understand her text and by doing that they will make a final judgement that it’s actually not transphobic at all.