GagaSine 7,464 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Just now, Fish said: saying what's in bold is the literal equivalent of saying people can't disagree. So you’re saying I can’t have an opinion so much for freedom of speech Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantina 3,359 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Ok, I am just reading this essay. She didn't just write a book about herself and her "research" And I honestly don't like the tone it has for now. Like, what is this paragraph of companies cowering not to be called transphobic. It is easy. Just don't ****ing be transphobic. They need to grow a pair??? Wth JK Until then, this is Elvira saying unpleasant dreams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish 6,145 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, GagaSine said: So you’re saying I can’t have an opinion so much for freedom of speech lmao bye Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaSine 7,464 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Just now, Fish said: lmao bye I should have said the same from the start but seriously why am I not allowed to have an opinion about people debating their right to be a bigot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantina 3,359 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 She really said boohoo trans people are hurting my charities. Because of them separating gender from sex??? Until then, this is Elvira saying unpleasant dreams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altair 2,000 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 52 minutes ago, Pennywise said: If she wants to support people who are biological females only, she can shut the **** up about others and let them be. She clearly does not know how to, though. But do you see how ridiculous this sounds? She’s not going to have a disclaimer with every post she makes regarding bio females Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantina 3,359 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Also, she did NOT just paint the trans community to be a cult guiding people to transition? She legit said if she had been born 30 years later she might have considered transitioning because she had OCD??? The allure to escape womanhood??? Wth Until then, this is Elvira saying unpleasant dreams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsleepOnTheCeiling 6,420 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I feel like J.K. didn't have a malicious intent behind her words, which is much better than her initial tweet that gave me that idea. I feel like she has a couple of concerns about how society is supposed to work with trans being widely accepted, and I don't feel that's wrong. We should question things to best prepare ourselves for the ways people can abuse things that were meant to help others. I think she's correct in saying that being a woman isn't just about pink and how society sees women. That it's a much deeper issue than that. And her wanting to protect youth from transitioning isn't wrong either for that very reason. I feel like a lot of youth don't have an idea of what they are, only what they should be. They categorize themselves much more than adults do. I don't believe teenagers are in the right mindset to undergo hormones and surgeries, just like it would be seen as inappropriate for teenagers to get plastic surgery. The question would be when would it be acceptable? And I feel like a lot of society doesn't know how to address the bathroom issue. It's a complicated issue such as blindly believing every single sexual assault case because anybody could claim anything. We cannot deny that there will be several people who will claim they are trans in order to accomplish evil things. And there will be some who do so purposefully in order to discredit the entire movement. I do find issues with some of her arguments though, such as the autism misrepresentation in trans people. It's even harder to see if it can be generalized to entire populations without seeing the study itself, so I wish she had linked it and other scientific evidence she was using. It also makes no sense for women to want to identify as a man, because they'll likely get **** for being trans as well. Something she seems to be particularly ignorant to. She also seems to have confirmation bias to her argument, and as such might be closing herself off to being wholey educated. I hope she's able to look past the hateful comments that do absolutely nothing and finds people that wish to actually discuss with her. I'm probably missing portions of her text that I should address, but this is all I can remember at this point. I don't hope to upset anybody on here that might be trans, and I would never wish to invalidate anybody. If I've said anything wrong, please feel free to discuss with me (even in my PMs if you feel more comfortable there). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsleepOnTheCeiling 6,420 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, Fantina said: She really said boohoo trans people are hurting my charities. Because of them separating gender from sex??? I feel like this doesn't have to do with it hurting her charities. She's giving out the money either way. Her point is that at some point men will claim they are women in order to benefit off that money. Even though those men will not have experienced what women have to endure. She's worried about it not reaching the people it's supposed to reach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantina 3,359 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 "I want to be very clear here: I know transition will be a solution for some gender dysphoric people, although I’m also aware through extensive research that studies have consistently shown that between 60-90% of gender dysphoric teens will grow out of their dysphoria." Usually when someone states a statistic, they provide a link. Where are these studies? Until then, this is Elvira saying unpleasant dreams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhoDoWeHaveHere Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Pennywise said: Yeah, and you're talking as if trans people don't die BECAUSE of transphobia AND people like her every day, in 21st century. Also nice of you to pretend you don't understand the base of my comparison and try to make me look bad. Sadly, it won't work. You can't shame me in any moral standpoint when you are in the literal swamp when it comes to that, thank you. When it comes to hateful people, I have stopped trying to "convince" them long ago. I have already mentioned in my previous comments that she is trying to make the trans rights movement something that it is not, that she's trying to make it sound like it is against biological women. I don't agree with her on this fundamental level, but no "listing" of points will ever convince people who are just looking for reasons to invalidate and hate trans people. If you think that it is people like JK Rowling are the ones who commit violent crimes agains transsexuals i think you might me misinformed. And as I said: As tiring it may be to try to convince hateful people it is worth it. Again here an amazing example. But I do agree on forums where people like to troll it might be hard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantina 3,359 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Just now, justhislife said: I feel like this doesn't have to do with it hurting her charities. She's giving out the money either way. Her point is that at some point men will claim they are women in order to benefit off that money. Even though those men will not have experienced what women have to endure. She's worried about it not reaching the people it's supposed to reach. That is a valid concern, but I think that there are always those types of people in all charities. Not just these. It is just humans being assholes. Until then, this is Elvira saying unpleasant dreams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaSine 7,464 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, WhoDoWeHaveHere said: If you think that it is people like JK Rowling are the ones who commit violent crimes agains transsexuals i think you might me misinformed. And as I said: As tiring it may be to try to convince hateful people it is worth it. Again here an amazing example. But I do agree on forums where people like to troll it might be hard. Words can be a form of violence. Her and other transphobic rhetoric is dehumanizing and creates further barriers for trans people. Convincing people is really hard and takes a lot of consistent work and there are people out there who have the patience to do that. But most are better off saving their energy for advocacy and other actions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnemone 126 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 The point is... that she actually doesn't have a point... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsleepOnTheCeiling 6,420 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Fantina said: That is a valid concern, but I think that there are always those types of people in all charities. Not just these. It is just humans being assholes. Absolutely, but this ties into her idea of "how will we know?" Which can be valid. Many minority scholarships etc require headshots and they can be weeded out like that. But if anybody can claim to be a woman, how will one know? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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