Christian baker sued again over gender-transition cake

[likeitrough 5,890]

On 4/16/2020 at 5:44 PM, Suspiria said:

He didn't refuse service to the woman though, he just refused to make a trans pride cake...

While I certainly don't agree with his beliefs, I don't see how this is all that different than a liberal refusing to make a MAGA cake, or a pro-life cake.

that's not a great comparison imo. you can choose to be a republican, you can't choose to be gay? 

in saying that, if I were a potential customer I would take my business elsewhere. why not support a LGBTQ+ company? I agree that it is discriminatory not to bake a cake for someone based on their sexuality or gender but I'd rather pay someone else than force a bigot to bake for me. 

 

[Candy Gaga 5,374]

Won't it be easier if she got the cake from any other place at this point 

It's not about a cake anymore she's just stubborn to force that certain man to serve her like who has all that time

[audrey horne 1,180]

20 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

so refusing to serve people based on their religon on political views is OK? I mean if you hate trump supporter and doing something against is OK and on the other side the same action is discrimination? 

Being hater is not a right, not only homo/transphobe    but I dont think that everyone who just dont like lgbt people are homo/transphobic. there are not only lgbt supporters and  homo/transphobic people in the world

Discrimination happens when an oppressive group of people threatens a minority, using freedom of speech for example. The difference here is that many lgbtqia people still risk their lives or face hate everyday and they actually are in need of protective rights. A christian baker or a Trump supporter don't, they are the oppressors.

[lodylody 1,790]

30 minutes ago, adterp said:

No it's personal beliefs. Same-sex marriage wasn't legal in Northern Ireland at this time and lawyers have been able to use the "creative expression" excuse to save their phobic stance on the subject. The situation is different than the OP.

Anyhow, thank you for spending so much time fighting against lgbtqia rights, it's very much appreciated on here. 

Lmao.

1. It's creative expression. He's baking a cake. That's the behaviour in question here. Not the thoughts in his head. So don't get that twisted  

2. Same-sex marriage wasn't legal at that time, correct. That was very bad. Now it is legal. This is very good. LGBT+ people got the rights they clearly deserve. I don't see why that is part of this conversation, but okay.

3. Yes! The situation is very different from the one in the OP. The transgender individual went to a high-profile Christian baker who refused to create a cake for a same-sex couple, in order to pick a fight. Which makes me have even less sympathy for this individual.

4. You can flip the bird at me all you want. It's immature and it's very telling.

5. I am not "spending so much time" doing anything, and I am spending no time "fighting against lgbtqia rights". In contrast, I want us all to retain the rights that we have. I've made my point very clearly in previous posts, so once you've had the opportunity to clear your mind and if you ever want to participate in a rational and adult conversation, please feel free to give them a second read over, after which I will be happy to discuss things with you in a civilised manner.

6. If you think forcing Christians to bake cakes with material they disagree with will help LGBT rights progress, you are very gravely mistaken.

[lodylody 1,790]

2 minutes ago, adterp said:

Discrimination happens when an oppressive group of people threatens a minority. The difference here is that many lgbtqia people still risk their lives or face hate everyday and they actually are in need of protective rights. A christian baker or a Trump supporter don't, they are the oppressors.

AAAAHHHHHH! RUNNNN! He won't bake the cake!!!

 

[FentyGa 14,340]

On 4/16/2020 at 9:14 AM, Suspiria said:

He didn't refuse service to the woman though, he just refused to make a trans pride cake...

While I certainly don't agree with his beliefs, I don't see how this is all that different than a liberal refusing to make a MAGA cake, or a pro-life cake.

are we really comparing harmful, ignorant beliefs to belief in equal rights

[FentyGa 14,340]

9 minutes ago, Candy Gaga said:

Won't it be easier if she got the cake from any other place at this point 

It's not about a cake anymore she's just stubborn to force that certain man to serve her like who has all that time

it’s more of a principle thing. if you let people get away with this kind of behaviour, they’ll think it’s okay and keep doing it.

[Candy Gaga 5,374]

Just now, FentyGa said:

it’s more of a principle thing. if you let people get away with this kind of behaviour, they’ll think it’s okay and keep doing it.

I get that. If you didn't fight for it you'll get mistreated again.

It's just at this point the sitiuation's been dragging for so long and sometimes you gotta let it go especially if you're against someone with his own private buisness.

[lodylody 1,790]

1 minute ago, FentyGa said:

it’s more of a principle thing. if you let people get away with this kind of behaviour, they’ll think it’s okay and keep doing it.

Don't you think it'd be better, rather than suing him and attempting to limit everyone's (including LGBT people's) creative expression, to engage in a discussion with him and treat him with kindness?

So that maybe he would question why he thinks the way he thinks?

This legal war that parts of the LGBT community are waging on Christians will not make them think their behaviour is less okay. The opposite, in fact. They'll become stronger in their negative beliefs about the LGBT community, and believe that their behaviour is even more justified  

[RRR 3,996]

The man would have baked any other type of cake for her, but not a cake that specifically goes against what his religious beliefs are. He is an old man that gets comfort with his religion and it is preposterous for this LGBT attorney to seek him out, only knowing him because he refused to bake LGBT-themed cake before, and initiate another lawsuit against him. This is harassing and embarrassing. It makes my community look petty. This LGBT attorney is only attention seeking at this point. Yikes!

[audrey horne 1,180]

12 minutes ago, lodylody said:

AAAAHHHHHH! RUNNNN! He won't bake the cake!!!

 

Oh so that's how you wanted to discuss things in civilised manners. 

5 minutes ago, lodylody said:

Don't you think it'd be better, rather than suing him and attempting to limit everyone's (including LGBT people's) creative expression, to engage in a discussion with him and treat him with kindness?

So that maybe he would question why he thinks the way he thinks?

This legal war that parts of the LGBT community are waging on Christians will not make them think their behaviour is less okay. The opposite, in fact. They'll become stronger in their negative beliefs about the LGBT community, and believe that their behaviour is even more justified  

Reverse the script, now we don't pay enough attention towards christians feelings. Your mind. 

[babylonn 126]

The person suing is the problem here. There’s literally a million places to get the cake and it sounds like she’s harassing him. 
 

her rights are not harmed bc someone decided they would rather not bake a cake for them, but if you legally sue to make the government force that man to bake a cake that he feels violates his spiritual identity, then you’re actually advocating taking away his human rights. 

[lodylody 1,790]

1 hour ago, adterp said:

Oh so that's how you wanted to discuss things in civilised manners. 

Reverse the script, now we don't pay enough attention towards christians feelings. Your mind. 

Well if you're going to go so far as to say that not baking a cake for someone is threatening behaviour... I'd say I've threatened almost the entire planet by this point   It was just a flippant and lighthearted response to a comment which (in the context of everything else you've said) suggested that not baking a cake is equivalent to threatening a minority  

Again, your lack of willingness to engage with others' viewpoints is really saddening. Let's pick apart what I said so I can hopefully explain how misguided your interpretation is.

We start off with @FentyGa's comment here:

"if you let people get away with this kind of behaviour, they’ll think it’s okay and keep doing it."

This is a fair comment. I responded, interested in this opinion, to engage in a discussion about their views in more detail: 

Now we move onto what I said: (P.S. Partial quoting is quite, again, immature. Can you not argue with the full post I made?   EDIT: P.S.S. So is editing your post to include full quotes  )

"Don't you think it'd be better, rather than suing him and attempting to limit everyone's (including LGBT people's) creative expression, to engage in a discussion with him and treat him with kindness?

So that maybe he would question why he thinks the way he thinks?"

So, here you see - I want him to question the way he thinks (if you couldn't understand that from the text on your own). In a dream world, he would've seen nothing wrong with baking the cake. So how do we change the mindset of a community who disagrees with the LGBT community's existence? Unlike you, I believe that civil discussion will ultimately provide a better solution than waging legal battles. (P.S. For future reference, this is called a difference of opinion - it doesn't mean that one of us is against LGBT rights or any of the other delusional comments I've had thrown my way by you!) 

Now we arrive at the one part of my post you actually quoted, with the context of what you omitted before!  

"This legal war that parts of the LGBT community are waging on Christians will not make them think their behaviour is less okay."

As I've said earlier, we want their opinions to change. So that hopefully one day, no-one will have an issue with baking a cake like this. What motivates behaviour change? A lot of it surrounds attitudinal change. So when we try to change the behaviour of someone who is LGBT-phobic, the question can also be seen as how do we change their attitudes, their opinions? I am saying that none of these people will have their opinion (and subsequent behaviour) changed through legal battles.

"The opposite, in fact. They'll become stronger in their negative beliefs about the LGBT community, and believe that their behaviour is even more justified "

And the final part of my post. If these people think members of the LGBT community are bad people, and we try to take away their livelihood and hassle them, their attitudes and behaviour won't change! Instead, they'll think they are RIGHT to hate the LGBT community! And that will not lead to any attitude change.

So hopefully now I've explained it for you on a level that you can understand. I am not caring about Christian rights, I'm caring about meaningful behavioural change towards the LGBT community.

Hopefully you remember the term "difference of opinion" that I taught you earlier on. You are free to disagree with how I think best to respond to this situation, and that's okay. But don't lobby false accusations in the future. Seriously. It's irritating.