Bernie Sanders Will ‘Assess’ His Campaign After Another Brutal Primary

[pachinko 10,753]

As a democrat, I can't wait to see Biden lose to Trump. 

[Shiningstar 16]

Can he drop out and run as independent?

[Shiningstar 16]

1 minute ago, pachinko said:

As a democrat, I can't wait to see Biden lose to Trump. 

With a mindset like this.. who even needs enemies.. Trump should definitely win now and declare himself the next Tsar

[AsleepOnTheCeiling 6,965]

3 hours ago, ImTired said:

Anything but your candidate is a 2 time loser, right? 

You're aware that Biden is a two time loser as well, right? Maybe third times the charm

[AsleepOnTheCeiling 6,965]

5 minutes ago, Shiningstar said:

Can he drop out and run as independent?

He COULD, but I personally believe he wouldn't. He's aware that even some of his voters going for Biden in the general election could decide if Trump stays in office, and I think he'd rather out Trump rather than run independent.

[Lilmonzter 2,864]

Replacing one pathological liar for another

One corporate stuge for another

Biden lies so often and it ain't bothering anybody since he's a democrat 

Just a taste, there's a lot more from where that came from 

Just ammo for the trump campaign. 

It should bother everyone that he's going to be the nominee

 

 

[Hybrid AT 78]

He needs to drop out. It's irrecoverable at this point. He hasn't had a path for some time now and the delegate deficit will continue to increase. If he continues to stay in, he will just continue to make a mockery of himself. He should help unite the party and can continue to push Biden left if he wants to after suspending. The sooner all this is wrapped up, the better for everyone to take the fight against Trump.

The privilege to treat elections as a joke and throw away your votes just because your candidate didn't receive the nomination, is well, astounding. The delusion, that Trump, a literal fascist can be compared with Biden, a lifelong Democrat who has worked hard his whole life to advance progressive causes. That's some really messed up, distorted perspective. When Fall comes, do think about minority rights, of women, fellow LGBTQ+ members, of black and brown people, and SCOTUS seats. White nationalism and gun violence is on the rise. Corruption is higher than ever before. Healthcare is in shambles. The USA is a joke on the world map because of Trump's lack of leadership.

But hey, "Not Me, Us" right?

When Bernie said "are you willing to fight for someone you don't know", who knew the echo from that powerful and meaningful line started and died within the chambers of his own base?

 

[ImTired 3,956]

23 minutes ago, justhislife said:

You're aware that Biden is a two time loser as well, right? Maybe third times the charm

Winning when it counts!

[REALITY 80,162]

50 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

A vote for a third party is a vote for a third party. Saying it is a vote for Trump is an over-simplication to push a political agenda. My point is also that what is preventing a progressive presidency is not republicans, it is moderate democrats. They continue to bully progressives in conjunction with the party apparatus, big donors and corporate media and then demand our loyalty in return for symbolic victories. Voting for the moderate because they are the least shitty option out of 2 people is no reason to vote for a moderate candidate. You keep working on the assumption that Trump is worse than Biden, but when you look at the policy, where do you come to that conclusion? 

Obama/Biden are how the cages turned to a reality, not Trump. 

Obama/Biden are the reason Trump is in the white house now bc of the continued support for big corporations and the lack of support for working people. 

Biden has a much worse record than Hillary Clinton, who I personally find to be one of the most abhorrent people on this planet. That's saying something. Every progressive anything and you can find a Joe Biden vote or speech against it. 

 

While I don't want Trump in office, I don't think that voting for Joe is best for the progressive movement. I think your refusal to vote for 3rd party is really a self-limitation that you could remove if you wanted to but that's your decision to make. I would just argue that if you look at Teddy Roosevelt, who created his own party, he won 27% of the vote and beat the Republican party nominee but did not win over the democratic nominee Woodrow Wilson. The way forward for a 3rd party would be to unite the populist left and populist right (think Bernie/Tulsi; bernie appeals to the hardcore socialists and Tulsi appeals to the conservatives despite having similar domestic and foreign policies). I would rather vote 3rd party and give the Green party a chance to make that happen than to vote for Joe and tell the DNC that it's ok to do everything they did in this primary to stop Bernie because I'm going to vote for Joe anyway. 

Well, a vote for a third party isn't helping to move the Democratic Party, so yeah, while it doesn't directly help Trump, it indirectly helps him by not giving that vote for the Democrats. 

And look, I understand what you're saying. You and I have similar political views when it comes to progressivism vs neoliberalism, however, I just don't think that not voting for Biden would make this country better. I understand that Trump is a byproduct of establishment politicians (both Republican and Democrat), but voting for a third party, in my view, isn't conducive to getting much work done.

And on your point about Teddy Roosevelt, again, I understand. What he was able to accomplish in his time was astonishing. He passed a lot of progressive policies and he was able to start a significant third party. He and FDR were some of the most progressive presidents ever, and in a perfect world, Bernie would join their ranks. I would love for him to be the next FDR; however, that is not the reality of the situation. You said yourself, while Roosevelt did beat Taft and the Republicans, he wasn't able to actually win in the end. It's unfortunate, but it's reality. And while I think it'd be great to form another "Bull Moose Party", that's just not where we're going in November 2020. 

Finally, again, our common enemy is Republicans and the idiotic Trump voters like my parents. I mean, being disgusted to think that Biden would choose a woman  to be his VP? Come on. People with those views need not to be in power, or feel like they have power. This also isn't about wanting  Biden. I've made it explicitly clear that I don't want   Biden. However, if he is the person against Trump, he's who I'm voting for. That way, like I said, maybe we could get some more progressive things passed. Again, with Trump in power 4 more years, there's no way in hell that's happening. At least with Biden, there might  be that chance. 

 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

12 minutes ago, HybridAT said:

He needs to drop out. It's irrecoverable at this point. He hasn't had a path for some time now and the delegate deficit will continue to increase. If he continues to stay in, he will just continue to make a mockery of himself. He should help unite the party and can continue to push Biden left if he wants to after suspending. The sooner all this is wrapped up, the better for everyone to take the fight against Trump.

The privilege to treat elections as a joke and throw away your votes just because your candidate didn't receive the nomination, is well, astounding. The delusion, that Trump, a literal fascist can be compared with Biden, a lifelong Democrat who has worked hard his whole life to advance progressive causes. That's some really messed up, distorted perspective. When Fall comes, do think about minority rights, of women, fellow LGBTQ+ members, of black and brown people, and SCOTUS seats. White nationalism and gun violence is on the rise. Corruption is higher than ever before. Healthcare is in shambles. The USA is a joke on the world map because of Trump's lack of leadership.

But hey, "Not Me, Us" right?

When Bernie said "are you willing to fight for someone you don't know", who knew the echo from that powerful and meaningful line started and died within the chambers of his own base?

 

Can you please tell me when Joe Biden worked hard to advance a progressive cause? Count the number of progressive causes and then tell me the number of causes that Biden stood in the way of. 

You are guaranteed to find that Biden had done more to hinder progressive causes than he has done to help them.

How can you even tell anyone that is brown to go vote for Joe? The cages originated in the administration he served under and y'know back in the day Joe Biden had some very nice things to say about immigrants. I really don't see how you can expect Latinos to vote for someone like Joe. 

 

And if you want to talk about healthcare, tell me what Joe is going to do? Improve the ACA? The same proposal that democrats decided to go with that originated from Mitt Romney in the first place. Yes, Biden is sure going to fix our healthcare system. 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

6 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

Well, a vote for a third party isn't helping to move the Democratic Party, so yeah, while it doesn't directly help Trump, it indirectly helps him by not giving that vote for the Democrats. 

And look, I understand what you're saying. You and I have similar political views when it comes to progressivism vs neoliberalism, however, I just don't think that not voting for Biden would make this country better. I understand that Trump is a byproduct of establishment politicians (both Republican and Democrat), but voting for a third party, in my view, isn't conducive to getting much work done.

And on your point about Teddy Roosevelt, again, I understand. What he was able to accomplish in his time was astonishing. He passed a lot of progressive policies and he was able to start a significant third party. He and FDR were some of the most progressive presidents ever, and in a perfect world, Bernie would join their ranks. I would love for him to be the next FDR; however, that is not the reality of the situation. You said yourself, while Roosevelt did beat Taft and the Republicans, he wasn't able to actually win in the end. It's unfortunate, but it's reality. And while I think it'd be great to form another "Bull Moose Party", that's just not where we're going in November 2020. 

Finally, again, our common enemy is Republicans and the idiotic Trump voters like my parents. I mean, being disgusted to think that Biden would choose a woman  to be his VP? Come on. People with those views need not to be in power, or feel like they have power. This also isn't about wanting  Biden. I've made it explicitly clear that I don't want   Biden. However, if he is the person against Trump, he's who I'm voting for. That way, like I said, maybe we could get some more progressive things passed. Again, with Trump in power 4 more years, there's no way in hell that's happening. At least with Biden, there might  be that chance. 

 

I think you are ignoring the long-term effects of a Biden presidency. You could argue that there's a chance that progressive policies would get passed. The reality is that they wouldn't. What are the gen Z folks going to do when they are told their voice doesn't matter and the best we can have in this country is Biden vs Trump? We already have low voter turnout in elections in the first place. I see Joe Biden as a risk to alienate another generation the same way millennial are now being alienated by the democratic party for the second election in a row. 

 

I mean I totally understand that you are fearful of what another 4 years of Trump would do but I think you are so eager to get rid of Trump that I don't think you understand what you're going to get as a result of a Biden presidency as well. At least with Biden losing the election, it is a guarantee there will be revolt within the party next cycle. If Biden wins the presidency and god forbid runs for a second term, by the time we get another shot, people are going to look back at Bernie's movement and support and say it was a "Howard Dean" moment that never meant anything. It will further diminish the value of a progressive movement to a point of no return IMHO. 

 

Again I totally understand the struggle of the corundum that we are in because either your choice or my choice isn't the most ideal of situations to go through. But I think you are voting on short-term interests and I think I am voting on long-term goals and interests. I'm just fearful too many people are going to vote for Biden because 'orange man bad' only to hinder the progressive movement until I'm in my 50s. I'd really like to have a progressive president in my lifetime. I think those 4 years is worth that trade off. 

[Hybrid AT 78]

9 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

Can you please tell me when Joe Biden worked hard to advance a progressive cause? Count the number of progressive causes and then tell me the number of causes that Biden stood in the way of. 

You are guaranteed to find that Biden had done more to hinder progressive causes than he has done to help them.

How can you even tell anyone that is brown to go vote for Joe? The cages originated in the administration he served under and y'know back in the day Joe Biden had some very nice things to say about immigrants. I really don't see how you can expect Latinos to vote for someone like Joe. 

 

And if you want to talk about healthcare, tell me what Joe is going to do? Improve the ACA? The same proposal that democrats decided to go with that originated from Mitt Romney in the first place. Yes, Biden is sure going to fix our healthcare system. 

You literally think Trump and Biden are the same. You're literally quoting the RNC war room, which has been known to deliberately distort context and twist statements to prove something you believe. I'm not going to waste time arguing with you about anything. Your vote, your privilege. Choose to exercise it or throw it away, ultimately your choice.

Everyone makes mistakes, no politician is perfect. But if you think stymieing any possible progress for regression is a  good thing to do, feel free to do it. I'm not going to waste my time convincing you why or how Biden (or for that matter, any Democrat) is better than Trump. This should be obvious and shouldn't have to be explained.

Not Me. Us. Solidarity.

Big words.

[HorusRa2 5,005]

Just now, HybridAT said:

You literally think Trump and Biden are the same. You're literally quoting the RNC war room, which has been known to deliberately distort context and twist statements to prove something you believe. I'm not going to waste time arguing with you about anything. Your vote, your privilege. Choose to exercise it or throw it away, ultimately your choice.

Everyone makes mistakes, no politician is perfect. But if you think stymieing any possible progress for regression is a  good thing to do, feel free to do it. I'm not going to waste my time convincing you why or how Biden (or for that matter, any Democrat) is better than Trump. This should be obvious and shouldn't have to be explained.

I chose that source because it's the only place I know of to grab that video quickly. The fact is that Joe Biden has had terrible views with regard to immigration, very Trumpian views as well. 

I also don't see you disputing the fact that the Obama administration is where the cages came from. Why is it that you're only willing to say that the things Republicans do are terrible that you can't accept that Democrats have done terrible things as well? 

[Hybrid AT 78]

1 minute ago, HorusRa2 said:

I chose that source because it's the only place I know of to grab that video quickly. The fact is that Joe Biden has had terrible views with regard to immigration, very Trumpian views as well. 

I also don't see you disputing the fact that the Obama administration is where the cages came from. Why is it that you're only willing to say that the things Republicans do are terrible that you can't accept that Democrats have done terrible things as well? 

I literally said no politician is perfect. No single politician has a spotless record. Did you miss that part? 

You're not a true progressive if you're okay with regression instead of little progress, no matter how little it may be. Neither is anyone else who is complicit in enabling another 4 years of Trump. Simple.

 

 

[REALITY 80,162]

5 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

I think you are ignoring the long-term effects of a Biden presidency. You could argue that there's a chance that progressive policies would get passed. The reality is that they wouldn't. What are the gen Z folks going to do when they are told their voice doesn't matter and the best we can have in this country is Biden vs Trump? We already have low voter turnout in elections in the first place. I see Joe Biden as a risk to alienate another generation the same way millennial are now being alienated by the democratic party for the second election in a row. 

 

I mean I totally understand that you are fearful of what another 4 years of Trump would do but I think you are so eager to get rid of Trump that I don't think you understand what you're going to get as a result of a Biden presidency as well. At least with Biden losing the election, it is a guarantee there will be revolt within the party next cycle. If Biden wins the presidency and god forbid runs for a second term, by the time we get another shot, people are going to look back at Bernie's movement and support and say it was a "Howard Dean" moment that never meant anything. It will further diminish the value of a progressive movement to a point of no return IMHO. 

 

Again I totally understand the struggle of the corundum that we are in because either your choice or my choice isn't the most ideal of situations to go through. But I think you are voting on short-term interests and I think I am voting on long-term goals and interests. I'm just fearful too many people are going to vote for Biden because 'orange man bad' only to hinder the progressive movement until I'm in my 50s. I'd really like to have a progressive president in my lifetime. I think those 4 years is worth that trade off. 

And trust me, I would love to have a really progressive president in my lifetime as well. It's just in my opinion that voting for Biden would at least make us get rid of the current issue that we have in the White House right now. 

To your point of millennials feeling like they're being alienated, the reality of the situation is that they didn't show up. Bernie does exceptionally  well with young voters, but the problem was that even less  of them showed up. If millennials and the younger generation want change, they need to do their part and vote (this is coming from someone who is  a part of the younger generation too). 

And look, I am looking at the short term. I'm not going to deny that. I wish I had the willpower like you do to stick to your beliefs and 100% go for them, but I'm not that kind of guy. I wish I was, I really do, but I see myself as more of a pragmatic person instead of an ideological person. There's nothing wrong with being ideological though. I mean, hell, I support Bernie Sanders. He's the progressive ideology and fighting for what you believe in, no matter what, personified!

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. No harm done though. We're both on the same side, just looking at it through different perspectives!