Society vs art

[Floppy 7,951]

3 hours ago, LGs LM said:

I mean, who are you to say that? Some pop artists  write and produce their own music. They pour their heart and soul into what they're making. Sure, they release songs because it's their job and it's what pays the bills, but that doesn't mean they're not passionate about it. 

"Pop music is made focusing on sales, advertisement and chart positions. It is a product and It is not and never will be art." If you go by this logic, does that mean that artists shouldn't be paid?

You sound like one of those music snobs who only think classical music is art. 

THIS DRAG. You better clock HA.

[Floppy 7,951]

2 hours ago, Bio said:

Beethoven was a revolutionary, even thought he played for the nobles, he always defied them and his music defied them. 

Looks like the art police has arrived ladies. 

 

Why y'all arguing with him? He's clearly a lost cause. 

[djBuffoon 12,123]

4 hours ago, Bio said:

The first mistake you made is thinking pop music is art. Pop music is made focusing on sales, advertisement and chart positions. It is a product and It is not and never will be art.

In many cases, you would be correct. There is a faction of pop stars who appear to be focused more on how an idea can be translated into song, and how to make that song as commercially viable and successful as possible, even at the expense of depth or layers.

There's other artists who it can be argued actually have something to say, and are not necessarily concerned with whether or not they can hit #1 every time, and their albums tend to take a bolder, more distinct approach every time. I think Gaga is one of those.

Which is why, going back to the topic,  I think it's important to apply critical sense to artists, even the ones we love. Perhaps especially the ones we love. "Stupid Love" doesn't do much for me. What it has to say is virtuous but it's pretty thin, despite how enjoyable it is. I was disappointed because I've come to expect more from her.

But to the OP's point, it could be that the song disappointed me because of what I expected. I'm not going to post around saying "she should've done something more this-or-that" because that's irrelevant. I can't pretend to know what she should've said with her music or where she's at. All that I can do, my only responsibility as a listener and fan, is to articulate why I reacted the way I did.

[HotLikeMexico 5,196]

Lol at y’all arguing. 

“Art” is subjective and that is that. Anything is and can be art whether you like it or not. 
 

I studied architecture and had to take a kabillion art classes. you come in contact with the most pretentious people. Finally a professor told us to just STFU because everything and anything is art. There is no right or wrong answer. It all matters to you. 

[Bio 23,538]

1 hour ago, CautiousLurker said:

From your replies it really seems like you think  true art can only be born if the financial incentive is removed, and first of all that's not true, but that's also a very unhealthy thing to perpetuate - artists need to be able to make money with their craft, they cannot fully remove themselves from the reality of modern life and create work solely for the sake of it with no expectations of financial benefit, especially if they want to dedicate their career to it, cuz... needles to say, food and rent aren't free...

The whole 'you need to create art for the people' thing is actually pretty hurtful - that's how you get a$$holes who harass artists for free work because 'it's their gift' and if they want to be paid, they're the ones being selfish... It's devaluing the skill it takes to create a piece of art or entertainment... It may not seem like a big deal when you're talking about someone who's made it, but not every creator out there is swimming in luxury - in fact most of them are probably struggling, and in no small part because people are under the impression that art should be free or near-free

Financial incentive is great and should be encouraged. Art should never be created with the thought of what might sell or not. And pop music is born from that thought. 

[Killa 17,490]

13 hours ago, LGs LM said:

I mean, who are you to say that? Some pop artists  write and produce their own music. They pour their heart and soul into what they're making. Sure, they release songs because it's their job and it's what pays the bills, but that doesn't mean they're not passionate about it. 

"Pop music is made focusing on sales, advertisement and chart positions. It is a product and It is not and never will be art." If you go by this logic, does that mean that artists shouldn't be paid?

You sound like one of those music snobs who only think classical music is art. 

The twist is that classic music also has an industry. And the first industry, as a modern view, started with opera in italy. 

Music was mass produced, composers would write in space of weeks new operas, mostly are rip offs of one another from melody to text etc. 

I understood what bio meant. But its fundamentally wrong. 

Ex b still in my comparision with 18th century opera

Handel was most prolific opera composer at the late baroque but there was bit saturation of market. 

Also there was church ban on opera. Handel simply wrote religious drama pieces, oratorio, that were basically operas with religious content. 

Like this kind of strategy is very common. A change of style,to prove an artist is capable... 

Thats old entertainment card. 

 

Ot: i think this is absolutely wrong. The song should be jugded by what the artist is trying to. Acomplish and how succesful it his from achieving so. 

So i open my ears and understand the synth bass and the voice lead arent really going together well and makes the voice feel like too much in the back with a bit of noise on the front.  The song misses some body, bass but not too low. 

Theres a poor harmony solution in the pre chorus. The cadence and resolution isnt the most efficient. 

This arent subjective views. The solutions for the problems might be based on taste, lets say grimes uses overcompressed vocals with lots of reverb. Is that a flaw? Not really, its a choice. 

Studio music brings serious tech problems but it should abide to rules. And it needs to have a sense. The components need to help it eachothrt to sound pleasing, or "bad" if tats intention. 

Furthermore

Thers no chorus, this song is bad. Thats a choice, and an opinion. Thats subjective

The absence of a chorus doesnt help the song have a nice flow and doesnt give the same dancey feeling, giving a rupture midway. Its more objective

Maybe it could not have a standard chorus but still not disrupt the flow. 

Sorry for dissertation. 

[CautiousLurker 19,470]

12 hours ago, Bio said:

Financial incentive is great and should be encouraged. Art should never be created with the thought of what might sell or not. And pop music is born from that thought. 

Movies are created with the thought of what might sell, yet there are plenty that are legitimate works of art. Asserting that art cannot be created when you're trying to make something that will sell is first of all not true, but second of all - it's the most basic inaccurate outlook you could have, that will be gone by the time you finish your first year of art school... What exactly did you study for 10 years and where? Cuz this is not an argument someone with a degree in art history or a respective discipline would make... well, at least I haven't run into people who would make that argument...

[kaelergrey 5,386]

Ok let me go back to the meaning of ART. 

according to the dictionary, art is the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. the various branches of creative activity, such as painting, music, literature, and dance.

Now, Let me break it down to you. 

Music is an expression of human creative skills (lyric, composition, production, vocal production etc.) believe it or not even if its pop there are alot of artistry behind every song from mixing (compression, equing etc.) down to making the lyrics etc.

and yes this can also be seen in classical music like the placement of every instrument in the field, spatial qualities, natural room ambience, mic placements etc. (I can go on and on but you might not understand my terms and jargons)

Now "pop" no matter how shallow some are, are adored by people because they have an emotional attachment to it may it be feeling happy, sad etc. 

This goes to every aspect of the different disciplines of art. 

Now if you dont get what im saying. Then, there is nothing I can say to convince you. You are grown, you believe what you want to believe. It will be hard to teach an old dog new tricks as they say and I wish you the best. Have an amazing day.