Warren confronted by voter

[Economy 52,932]

2 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

That's the million dollar question, how do you come up with what is owed given all of the complexities that exists now that also makes up for what has been done over generations. 

That said, that's why some of the policies that Bernie and Warren (although she does more means testing for my liking) address the political gridlock of reparations in a different way. It's why I love these policies. The only thing that is that while these policies help, they aren't specific to african americans only which is why many people I know are still pushing for reparations in terms of cash payments. In other words, it's fine to implement policies that help african americans, but they also help asian americans, white americans, etc. etc. The lack of specificity to just african americans in some ways doesn't address the fact that they were targeted specifically in an inhumane way. It's a very tricky situation reparations, but I think for the country to heal we have to make some sort of determination and do the right thing. In the meantime, until that's sorted out I think policies like the student debt cancellation is among the best policies we can do now that does something that helps everybody, disproportionately black and brown.

I have a hard time agreeing with tho sorry. It's my opinion

 

I always thought that justice should be individual. I should neither be punished nor praised for what my great grandfather did

 

None of the people alive today went thru slavery themselves

 

That doesn't mean they aren't still feeling the effects of it because when families are poor it's hard to get out of that cycle... But the degree to which individuals are facing this will vary tremendously on a case by case basis... So I still don't think there's any possible way to ever be fair with something as simple as payments

 

Policies to help ppl get out of poverty and uplift them, or anti discrimination policies target the main racial inequality problems we still have today anyway which is that most have had poverty passed down, or that they often still face less opportunities.

 

A direct cash transfer does not target which specific individuals need it most. It just lumps everyone together based on race to which the effects they feel won't even be the same necessairily as their black neighbour

 

Between varying circumstances and mixed ancestries etc I just think payments are way too messy

 

My biggest issue of all is that it would be an expensive thing that wouldn't really target social justice for individuals. It would be a history symbolic thing more than anything to which some individuals would get more than they actually deserve while others not get enough

 

To give blacks payments that actually meant anything (like what's $1000 even gonna do?) the cost would probably have to go into the many trillions. For that much money u can pay for policies that actually help those that need it instead of some symbolism based on ancestry  that on a person by person basis would never be fair

 

For something that's more symbolic rather than truly just, I think that's too expensive a cost for that

 

Policies that target the poor are proportional to need and social injustice they felt. Money reperations wouldn't be proportional on a case by case basis to anyone

[Economy 52,932]

@HorusRa2 another thing I gotta add too that I forgot is that there's been a tone of immigration to the US since slavery

 

Even if ancestry mattered (which I'm iffy with because I think it's individuals that should matter) Many white taxpayers families weren't even in the US when this happened...

 

Some blacks could have partial ancestry that wasn't even here in America when it happened either

 

Adding that I think makes a reperation case involving direct money transfers even more messy

 

I think if we chose to go that route, it would purely be a matter of symbolism for "healing" as a nation as u said that's it. Because in terms of any kind of fairness or justice, I don't think direct payments manage to achieve any of that. And I have to question if the price tag it would come at is worth it just for symbolism rather than actual substsnce 

[Shaney 5,515]

He chose to pay for his daughter’s school so she wouldn’t have debt. That’s great, but that’s also on him. My mom could have paid for my school with her savings too, but she chose not to.  

Most people are paying for college themselves.

[HorusRa2 5,005]

15 minutes ago, Economy said:

@HorusRa2 another thing I gotta add too that I forgot is that there's been a tone of immigration to the US since slavery

 

Even if ancestry mattered (which I'm iffy with because I think it's individuals that should matter) Many white taxpayers families weren't even in the US when this happened...

 

Some blacks could have partial ancestry that wasn't even here in America when it happened either

 

Adding that I think makes a reperation case involving direct money transfers even more messy

 

I think if we chose to go that route, it would purely be a matter of symbolism for "healing" as a nation as u said that's it. Because in terms of any kind of fairness or justice, I don't think direct payments manage to achieve any of that. And I have to question if the price tag it would come at is worth it just for symbolism rather than actual substsnce 

All of what you said is arguments I have seen before and while I understand where you're coming from, the problem lays in the fact that the government promised african americans reparations but never actually gave them. I agree that it's probably a multi trillion dollar debt, but that's what was promised. 

Also, it's okay to disagree with me. I know I push back on a lot of things but it's just for dialogue. It's not personal 8 or 9 times out of 10. 

[Economy 52,932]

2 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

All of what you said is arguments I have seen before and while I understand where you're coming from, the problem lays in the fact that the government promised african americans reparations but never actually gave them. I agree that it's probably a multi trillion dollar debt, but that's what was promised. 

Also, it's okay to disagree with me. I know I push back on a lot of things but it's just for dialogue. It's not personal 8 or 9 times out of 10. 

I know it's not personal that's fine. I have an issue with a lot of GGD on politics but it's when they get toxic. Discussing in a civil matter is fine

 

But yeah for me... The Government having promised it doesn't change it...

 

I think it would of been a very good idea in the past. It should have been done. But they didn't do it...

 

Doing it now generations later suddenly makes it too complicated to be fair

 

That's why I prefer targeted policies that go based on need.

 

An expensive measure that won't actually be fair on an individual by individual cases, that takes resources away that could be used on policies to help ppl that actually need it the most is not very logical to me

 

What makes it even worse for me is that since high immigration since then means not every white persons heritage was even in America at the time and not every black persons full heritage was here either, that erodes some of the symbolism away anyway

 

U could literally have a white tax payer whose family was never here contribute to repair a black person whose entire family was not here either. That doesn't even seem like reperations anymore, that's a racial money transfer as a whole

 

I don't think the idea is stupid fundamentally. It just should of been done a lot earlier. Doing it now I just think is so problematic and not worth it anymore

 

I think the US should help black ppl get out of poverty and empower them and fight systemic racism... But I don't think the way u propose is the way

 

Ur way to me puts A LOT more emphasis on symbolism (that would be partially broken now anyways) than it does for actual fairness and justice. 

 

 

 

 

[hankhatesyouall 2,731]

It's unfathomable how a lot of you are convinced that college education should be free. It's a product that you have to pay for. There is no such thing as free launch. This is such a tired debate that you don't even have to bother quoting me. 

Of course, she still has no idea how she's going to pay for this college sham 

 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

11 minutes ago, hankhatesyouall said:

It's unfathomable how a lot of you are convinced that college education should be free. It's a product that you have to pay for. There is no such thing as free launch. This is such a tired debate that you don't even have to bother quoting me. 

Of course, she still has no idea how she's going to pay for this college sham 

 

It's unfathomable how people like you think public education through 12th grade should be free but the single-most important way to make an income and not be in poverty should put people in thousands and thousands of debt that they can never pay off with interest rates higher than mortgage rates. 

It's such a tired argument listening to capitalists. 

[PartySick 173,208]

8 minutes ago, hankhatesyouall said:

It's unfathomable how a lot of you are convinced that college education should be free. It's a product that you have to pay for. There is no such thing as free launch.

Education is an investment, sis. Not a product.

A college education isn't akin to a new iphone or new rims for someone's car. It could mean the difference between someone being able to achieve their personal dreams (and bettering society for it) and someone working three or more minimum wage jobs and STILL having to collect welfare because they don't make enough to pay bills or eat.

Poverty is expensive. Both personally and publicly. Giving people the basic resources they need (4 years of college) to climb out of that hole is good for us all.

[Petie Estie 5,718]

I will admit I love that she just said no and smiled lmao. 

[Petie Estie 5,718]

35 minutes ago, hankhatesyouall said:

It's unfathomable how a lot of you are convinced that college education should be free. It's a product that you have to pay for. There is no such thing as free launch. This is such a tired debate that you don't even have to bother quoting me. 

Of course, she still has no idea how she's going to pay for this college sham 

 

do you know taxes can apply to the wealthy and that the public good is a concept that exists

[SMILE2NE1 3,566]

She needs to de-escalate by addressing and recognising the flaws of the system in the past that impacted this man and his family instead of saying "absolutely not"

[SMILE2NE1 3,566]

7 hours ago, SEANGT said:

I will admit I love that she just said no and smiled lmao. 

Why? It shows poor EQ.