Iran admits it shot down Ukranian jetliner

[lego 44,165]

3 hours ago, Economy said:

If u are correct tho let's say, that makes no sense. He's being an idiot

 

It might have made sense up until 2008 it doesn't make any sense now

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LadariousGarage 1]

6 hours ago, littlepotter said:

Are you serious? You really think veiling women is more evil than murdering literal millions

Iran has murdered millions too

I am not saying things America has done isn't f*cked up

Iran has killed thousands of its own citizens in the past months for simply speaking up against the government

they have sponsered countless terrorist organizations that have killed thousands of innocent people across the middle east

they have been involved in countless wars and killed millions of civillians

the government severely opresses its citizens

women have been arrested and killed for leaving their homes without a man present

the U.S has done disgusting, f*cked up sh*t, but compared to Iran, and what they are currently doing, we sound pretty f*cking great

plus, many world powers do get involved in wars and kill literal millions too, we are not the only country that involves themselves into endless, costly, and inhumane wars all over the world, it unfortunately is not a rare occasion

we can be against war in Iran, and think what Trump is doing is f*cking disgusting, I would agree with you

but we are not going to say Iran is the "lesser evil" and defend the actions of Iran\

the problem with this is that we f*cked with Iran in the first place

anyways, rant over

 

[Melech 9,900]

4 hours ago, lego said:

 

You and other person I quoted, whose post you liked, by comparing 2 countries with: “America MAY have flaws, but Iran shot down the plane, full of innocent people, it’s terrorism and they should be punished”. So US army did exactly the same and never apologized, it seems to be small flaw and not terrorism. And no one should punish them for that. The double standards. 

And who said that that wasn’t terrorism 

[Whispering 18,865]

1 hour ago, lego said:

 

I didn’t say he was, Bush senior was Vice President, who was in the midst of running for president, in August 1988.

USS Vincennes Capt. William C. Rogers was later given the Legion of Merit award for shooting down IA655 - with two surface-to-air missiles.

 

“President Ronald Reagan issued a statement from Camp David, saying the United States regretted the loss of life but defending the judgment of the skipper, Capt. Will C. Rogers III. A subsequent Defense Department investigation also supported his actions, though it noted he was given inaccurate information as the plane approached. The investigators also faulted Iran for allowing the plane to fly into an active conflict zone.”

”Captain Rogers was later awarded the Legion of Merit for his service in the Persian Gulf; an accompanying citation praised the captain’s “dynamic leadership” and “logical judgment.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/11/world/middleeast/iran-air-flight-655-history.html

 

 

Back in 1991, Prof. Entman wrote famous article where he compares how US Press covered downing of Iran Air 655 by US vs how it covered downing of Korean Air 007 by Soviet Union. 

http://courses.washington.edu/com201/COM 201 readings/Entman-Fraiming US coverage of international.pdf

 

 

The tweet you quoted didn’t explain that Bush wasn’t President at the time, nor did it say that the President did apologize. 

From the Washington Post on July 6, 1988:

“President Reagan said yesterday that he apologized to Iran on Sunday for the USS Vincennes' shooting down of an Iranian passenger jet over the Persian Gulf that killed all 290 persons aboard and declared that reparations or compensation to the families of victims are "a matter that has to be discussed."

Reagan, a White House spokesman disclosed yesterday, sent a five-paragraph diplomatic note expressing "deep regret" to the Iranian government on Sunday, shortly after U.S. military leaders learned that the guided-missile cruiser had destroyed the Iran Air A300 Airbus after mistaking it for an Iranian F14 fighter plane.

The president's message sought to assure the Iranian government that the attack was an accident, White House spokesman Marlin Fitzwater said.

Reagan, speaking to reporters as he boarded a helicopter for a visit to ailing Salvadoran President Jose Napoleon Duarte at Walter Reed Army Medical Center yesterday afternoon, replied "Yes" when asked if he considered his message to Tehran an apology.”

 

Also, the tweet didn’t mention that Bush used that phrase about “not apologizing” before this incident and as a catch-phrase to refer to a general list of unspecified actions. George H. W. Bush, the vice president of the United States at the time commented on a separate occasion, speaking to a group of Republican ethnic leaders: "I will never apologize for the United States – I don't care what the facts are... I'm not an apologize-for-America kind of guy." The quote, although unrelated to the downing of the Iranian air liner and not in any official capacity, has been attributed as such. Bush used the phrase frequently during the 1988 campaign and promised to "never apologize for the United States" months prior to the July 1988 shoot-down and as early as January 1988. 

Of course, the families were owed an apology from the VP, as well as the President, but the tweet you quoted was lacking much information. 

 

 

Yes, but there were detailed and lengthy investigations and there is an open press in the US... then and now. That’s why you can find articles and comments during the investigation, since the time of the settlement and currently that are critical of the ship’s Captain and of the US Government’s involvement. 

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

9 hours ago, Economy said:

Agreed but no one said this

... They did but I'm not trying to @ people and start a fight, so I just left a generalized comment

Very few people come out and directly say "The people in Iran are savages who cant rule themselves, and we're America, the greatest nation in the Earth, therefore we have a moral obligation to lead the world and rule for those who are less civilized and moral than we are"  But it doesn't mean Exceptionalism and Imperialism aren't how they operate. Obama never said that. Were his foreign policy decisions still
characterized by this worldview or theory? Yes. Same for Clinton, especially the Bushes, it goes on and on. 

I'm warning against the mindset. It's very easy to not only believe in America as a "good" country (or even a *better* country than most), but to forget that demonizing the actions of another countries government (lol "regime") has historically been a slippery slope towards dehumanizing the people and justifying mass murder of those people that we "just want to save from their evil governments!" There are legitimate diplomatic ways to fight for humanitarian aid and to affect the policies of a foreign government to be up to date with international human rights laws and protections (though we also just need to like, reform the UN and stuff  ) but when we start fighting to do it, it just undercuts any of that, and in America at least, we usually find out 15-20 years later that there was no Humanitarian inspiration for military action in the first place. People who are anti-war activists are way too damn tired of any "but the people!" rhetoric because its always always used as a political cudgel in the media to justify our expanding our economic and geopolitical interests.

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

10 hours ago, kyanewest said:

Ive never said America hasn't done terrorist attacks on other countries. They did and they never got punished for it

No, but the impact of Trump and past presidents authorizing such military strikes has been negative foreign perception....some countries simply will not deal with the US unless they are forced to...

Our gov. wants to be viewed as saviors and the reality is that they look like bullies and gangsters to the rest of the world.

[SKANK 14,288]

21 hours ago, FlopSlurper said:

This is wrong and unrealistic. Yes homosexuality is illegal but that doesn't mean gays have the word f*g written on their forehead for everyone to find out and get them executed, it's rare and when it happens it's usually big news.

You keep talking about human rights and how good america is good to you bla bla spoken like a real american, when I'm talking about the US' crimes OUTSIDE of the US, the countries that were destroyed because of the US, the lives that were lost because of the US.

lack of human rights vs millions of lost lives and refugees/destroyed countries, I wonder which is less evil.

 

Just for the record, Iran has executed thousands of gay men since the 1970s. 

“The LGBT community in Iran has been in terror for the last 40 years,” said Alireza Nader, CEO of Washington, DC-based research and advocacy organization New Iran. “Next time Foreign Minister Zarif speaks in Washington, the host and audience should ask him why his regime is one of the top executioner of gays in the world.”

You don’t need to underplay the struggles Queer Iranians go through in order to push an anti-American agenda. That is nothing but a slap in the face to a minority facing an unimaginable horror. 

 

GGD when James Charles sneezes: Oh my God, is he making light of the small pox virus that whipped out the indigenous American population? Cracker Canceled. 

Also GGD: They only kill gays in Iran on special occasions, they don’t do it everyday, so it’s like not even that bad. Iran, not canceled.

 

[FlopSlurper 34,336]

13 minutes ago, SKANK said:

 

Just for the record, Iran has executed thousands of gay men since the 1970s. 

“The LGBT community in Iran has been in terror for the last 40 years,” said Alireza Nader, CEO of Washington, DC-based research and advocacy organization New Iran. “Next time Foreign Minister Zarif speaks in Washington, the host and audience should ask him why his regime is one of the top executioner of gays in the world.”

You don’t need to underplay the struggles Queer Iranians go through in order to push an anti-American agenda. That is nothing but a slap in the face to a minority facing an unimaginable horror. 

 

GGD when James Charles sneezes: Oh my God, is he making light of the small pox virus that whipped out the indigenous American population? Cracker Canceled. 

Also GGD: They only kill gays in Iran on special occasions, they don’t do it everyday, so it’s like not even that bad. Iran, not canceled.

 

Yeah that's not what I said. I'm from Oman which is literally a stone away from Iran and homosexuality is illegal here too, I know how it is. The way I described it is the way it is there. And I didn't say it's not that bad, but thousands is an exaggeration, the way I described it is the way it is there.

18 minutes ago, SKANK said:

it’s like not even that bad. Iran, not canceled.

Not you pulling this out of idk where when I said iran is a mess in like every single reply.

Also "pushing anti-american agenda" when it's literally y'all history. You are the one downplaying what the US has done. And what I did was merely explain why the US is worse than Iran, I didn't praise either countries. So stop twisting words.

[SKANK 14,288]

8 minutes ago, FlopSlurper said:

Yeah that's not what I said. I'm from Oman which is literally a stone away from Iran and homosexuality is illegal here too, I know how it is. The way I described it is the way it is there. And I didn't say it's not that bad, but thousands is an exaggeration, the way I described it is the way it is there.

Not you pulling this out of idk where when I said iran is a mess in like every single reply.

Also "pushing anti-american agenda" when it's literally y'all history. You are the one downplaying what the US has done. And what I did was merely explain why the US is worse than Iran, I didn't praise either countries. So stop twisting words.

 

Thousands is not an exaggeration. At the end of my post is link to a study outlining Iran’s excution of Queer men and Queer children.

I didn’t say a word in defense of America by the way. I said you don’t need to undercut the supression of Queer Iranians in order to argue an anti-American position, which is what you did, and are continuing to do.

Thousands of gay men in Iran have been executed, lashed, thrown in jail, and had their lives destroyed. To even for a moment underplay their suffering is akin to defending their suppressors. 

https://www.fidh.org/IMG/pdf/Rapport_Iran_final.pdf

[FlopSlurper 34,336]

5 minutes ago, SKANK said:

 

Thousands is not an exaggeration. At the end of my post is link to a study outlining Iran’s excution of Queer men and Queer children.

I didn’t say a word in defense of America by the way. I said you don’t need to undercut the supression of Queer Iranians in order to argue an anti-American position, which is what you did, and are continuing to do.

Thousands of gay men in Iran have been executed, lashed, thrown in jail, and had their lives destroyed. To even for a moment underplay their suffering is akin to defending their suppressors. 

https://www.fidh.org/IMG/pdf/Rapport_Iran_final.pdf

The study you linked talks about execution in Iran in general. The study (which is from 2009) also mentions that the number of executions between 2007 until early 2009 doesn't even add up to a thousand, and most of these crimes are rape and murder related, meaning thousands of gay people being executed is just unrealistic.

You can go ahead and direct me to where it says thousands of gay people were executed though.

[SKANK 14,288]

4 minutes ago, FlopSlurper said:

The study you linked talks about execution in Iran in general. The study (which is from 2009) also mentions that the number of executions between 2007 until early 2009 doesn't even add up to a thousand, and most of these crimes are rape and murder related, meaning thousands of gay people being executed is just unrealistic.

You can go ahead and direct me to where it says thousands of gay people were executed though.

 

 

Here are a few articles which cite human rights advocats in Iran that place the number of gay men executed by the current Iranian regimen in the thousands, specifically two to four thousand: 

https://observer.com/2015/05/how-iran-solved-its-gay-marriage-problem/

https://www.advocate.com/world/2019/6/12/irans-foreign-minister-defends-execution-gays

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/427247-iran-publicly-hangs-man-found-guilty-of-homosexuality-charges?amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.them.us/story/trump-administration-decriminalize-homosexuality/amp

https://egyptindependent.com/iran-defends-execution-of-gay-people/

https://capx.co/jeremy-corbyns-inexcusable-silence-on-irans-brutal-theocracy/

 

 

Whether the execution of gay men is “rare” or common, the life of Queer people in Iran is a nightmare. In the future, consider being critical of America without downplaying the very real suffering of Queer Iranians. 

Thanks.

[FlopSlurper 34,336]

8 minutes ago, SKANK said:

 

 

Here are a few articles which cite human rights advocats in Iran that place the number of gay men executed by the current Iranian regimen in the thousands, specifically two to four thousand: 

https://observer.com/2015/05/how-iran-solved-its-gay-marriage-problem/

https://www.advocate.com/world/2019/6/12/irans-foreign-minister-defends-execution-gays

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/427247-iran-publicly-hangs-man-found-guilty-of-homosexuality-charges?amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.them.us/story/trump-administration-decriminalize-homosexuality/amp

https://egyptindependent.com/iran-defends-execution-of-gay-people/

https://capx.co/jeremy-corbyns-inexcusable-silence-on-irans-brutal-theocracy/

 

 

Whether the execution of gay men is “rare” or common, the life of Queer people in Iran is a nightmare. In the future, consider being critical of America without downplaying the very real suffering of Queer Iranians. 

Thanks.

This is what I've been asking for, a source that states the numbers and not just speculations. That being said, as I said, I come from a country where being gay is illegal so I know how it is, and I wasn't downplaying their suffering since once again, I know how it is. I was explaining that the US is more evil than Iran because another member was making it as if the millions of people that died because of the US are nothing because at least the US has gay  rights.

[SKANK 14,288]

8 minutes ago, FlopSlurper said:

This is what I've been asking for, a source that states the numbers and not just speculations. That being said, as I said, I come from a country where being gay is illegal so I know how it is, and I wasn't downplaying their suffering since once again, I know how it is. I was explaining that the US is more evil than Iran because another member was making it as if the millions of people that died because of the US are nothing because at least the US has gay  rights.

 

“Yes homosexuality is illegal but thatdoesn't mean gays have the wordf*g written on their forehead for everyone to find out and get them executed, it's rare..” 

That is downplaying the terrifying reality of being Queer in Iran. I hope you won’t do that in the future. 

I don’t have anything else to say, but stay safe. 

[TheQueenEnthusiast 937]

17 hours ago, NCgaga said:

So you actually agree with what I said, because again it is true. Not once have I denied the US involvement in war and overreach to other countries. I called out people from other countries who spend all their time bashing the US, when they themselves are not only from countries who have allied in almost every single war, but commited huge amounts of genocide in global colonization. All you did in your rant was agree with what I said about colonization. Again what part of what I said was brainwashed?  You like throwing out that word, but have yet to mention one thing that I said that A) wasn’t true,  and b) was brainwashed. 

You need to reread what I said ma. By the words YOU used, you made it seem as if you're trying to put colonization and imperialism else where. The gist is: We are in NO way allowed to belittle other countries regarding dirty pasts and presents regarding genocide and war as if the US is not the king of neo-imperialism...

I clearly stated that you had a point but you are in no means to talk about other countries trying when we our main export is literally war and violence. 

[ANTI WP 19,828]

This thread 

Some of the stats idiots  finding their way to bring their own country's problem 

If you going to take a break ..... take a break idiot ...