Guillaume Hamon 7,025 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 10 hours ago, Florin said: It reminds me a lot of Bernie supporters from 3 years ago. The Republicans didnt need to demonize Hillary. Democrats did it better. People act like if bernie's base was responsible for her mixed image years ago but wasnt' she already having around 2/3 of american seeing her as "not trustworthy" when she launched her presidential campaign back then? The truth is Sanders was not having a big base nationwide yet when she already was not very well perceived overall since her own record is the main factor when it comes to her being demonized... Even if some folks still chose to diminish that and focus on a long ass list of persons to blame for it. This record coming back to "haunt" her was already a big part of what make her lose against Obama in 2008. The more some of her past positions and statements were re-surfacing the more her 2008 campaign was going down. But let's link Sanders supporters to the distrust for HRC again and again. 11 hours ago, Florin said: Well, let's hope that Trump won't win again just because some democrats want Jesus himself or no one. I didn't know that backing candidates whose records show they REALLY are fighting the problems instead of the ones who seem to mainly make nice speeches about it was "wanting Jesus himself"... 10 hours ago, Florin said: when Trump is president because people like you. Last time we got the "reasonable" candidate, not the "Jesus" yet we lost against a dude who wasn't very popular with the american people overall. Maybe the best way to not have Trump again is to actually have a progressive this time no? I mean Sanders was doing better with independents ( that both parties nominees will have to convince to go to the white house ) than HRC last time... And this time I believe it's Warren who is the independent voters favorite democratic candidates... Maybe the mistake made last time that let Trump win ( when he was supposed to be easy to defeat ) was to have a shady candidate that wasn't connecting with the progressive side of the party like an Obama was able to do before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachinko 10,757 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 "Gays for Pete!" He's left handed too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagaloo911 12,959 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 19 hours ago, PoshLife said: As someone who is not a supporter of Buttigieg but has been watching (and at times working in) politics for over a decade, I can tell you this - there is definitely a concerted effort to suppress Buttigieg's rise in the primary. I can't tell you who's orchestrating it, but it's coordinated. We would not otherwise be getting this constant onslaught of little soundbites and photos that counter the narrative his campaign is trying to craft for him. I think in the next several months we will learn more about whose undertaking this is. But it reminds me precisely of when the Obama campaign in 2007-2008 coordinated with LGBT influencers like AmericaBlog to get them to publish anti-Clinton information during the Dem primary so that LGBT people wouldn't vote for her. Lmao oh please. Have you seen how the media are treating him? Unprecedented positive coverage from MSM so far, who have shown they will do all they can to not give any criticism. This is not the norm either because usually candidates who become the frontrunner begin receiving negative coverage and coverage that is more critical of them once they're at the top. The fact of the matter is Buttigieg has some very troubling issues but the media aren't doing their job or looking into him well enough. He's basically being handed a silver platter of good coverage up to now. So enough of this BS. Buttigieg needs to answer for his issues and past. Just because some small outlets are actually doing their jobs by holding candidates accountable doesn't mean a concerted effort against him is happening like what Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJHolland 12,725 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 https://www.theroot.com/pete-buttigieg-called-me-heres-what-happened-1840055464 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 5 hours ago, ltlmnstr said: “Clean Coal” says it all. See I used to like you on here but not anymore. Just bringing over what I found. Lol, ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bt1 5,213 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 4 hours ago, Guillaume Hamon said: People act like if bernie's base was responsible for her mixed image years ago but wasnt' she already having around 2/3 of american seeing her as "not trustworthy" when she launched her presidential campaign back then? The truth is Sanders was not having a big base nationwide yet when she already was not very well perceived overall since her own record is the main factor when it comes to her being demonized... Even if some folks still chose to diminish that and focus on a long ass list of persons to blame for it. This record coming back to "haunt" her was already a big part of what make her lose against Obama in 2008. The more some of her past positions and statements were re-surfacing the more her 2008 campaign was going down. But let's link Sanders supporters to the distrust for HRC again and again. I didn't know that backing candidates whose records show they REALLY are fighting the problems instead of the ones who seem to mainly make nice speeches about it was "wanting Jesus himself"... Last time we got the "reasonable" candidate, not the "Jesus" yet we lost against a dude who wasn't very popular with the american people overall. Maybe the best way to not have Trump again is to actually have a progressive this time no? I mean Sanders was doing better with independents ( that both parties nominees will have to convince to go to the white house ) than HRC last time... And this time I believe it's Warren who is the independent voters favorite democratic candidates... Maybe the mistake made last time that let Trump win ( when he was supposed to be easy to defeat ) was to have a shady candidate that wasn't connecting with the progressive side of the party like an Obama was able to do before. You must feel really guilty to answer with such a lengthy response that mostly doesnt have anything to do with my comment. ok, but : The fact that you support Bernie or anyone else doesnt mean you have to demonize Hillary, Pete or Biden. Everyone has blind spots aka "a record", but u dont see moderates calling Warren Pocahontas. U let Republicans and trump do such things or you are not better than them. The funny thing is that the last time Bernie was the one who had problems with afro-americans support. U would think that the Bernie supporters would be a little more forgiven to someone like Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillaume Hamon 7,025 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Florin said: You must feel really guilty to answer with such a lengthy response that mostly doesnt have anything to do with my comment. ok, but : Well throwing around an unfair accusation is always shorter than saying what a situation is actually about so no wonder why my answer was longer than your brief bashing lol! Also I'm sure you saw the link between your comment and my answer but anyway... 2 hours ago, Florin said: The fact that you support Bernie or anyone else doesnt mean you have to demonize Hillary, Pete or Biden. Everyone has blind spots aka "a record", but u dont see moderates calling Warren Pocahontas. U let Republicans and trump do such things or you are not better than them. Demonize: to try to make someone or a group of people seem as if they are evil. Actually people from the left who weren't fans of these politicians were often not even "demonizing" them since they weren't portraying them a certain way. In the big majority of cases they merely were saying they didn't trust them seing their records... Cause yeah no record is perfect but some are way more fishy than others... Sanders fans were clearly not the ones pushing for the Pocahontas thing about warren so they don't have to worry about not being better than the ones who did... 2 hours ago, Florin said: The funny thing is that the last time Bernie was the one who had problems with afro-americans support. U would think that the Bernie supporters would be a little more forgiven to someone like Pete. Well Sanders problem with african americans wasn't due to any race-related scandal from his own record unlike with Pete so there was no reason for Sanders to not have a potential for improvement with the african american vote and it improved a lot since. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bt1 5,213 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Guillaume Hamon said: Well throwing around an unfair accusation is always shorter than saying what a situation is actually about so no wonder why my answer was longer than your brief bashing lol! Also I'm sure you saw the link between your comment and my answer but anyway... Demonize: to try to make someone or a group of people seem as if they are evil. Actually people from the left who weren't fans of these politicians were often not even "demonizing" them since they weren't portraying them a certain way. In the big majority of cases they merely were saying they didn't trust them seing their records... Cause yeah no record is perfect but some are way more fishy than others... Sanders fans were clearly not the ones pushing for the Pocahontas thing about warren so they don't have to worry about not being better than the ones who did... Well Sanders problem with african americans wasn't due to any race-related scandal from his own record unlike with Pete so there was no reason for Sanders to not have a potential for improvement with the african american vote and it improved a lot since. Yea. "It improved a lot". Last time I checked Bernie still has bad numbers with afro-Americans. Biden has the best support from afro Americans, but I guess that it's not something that progressives want to hear. Bernie is not the target anymore, because there is someone worst : Pete, so the media and afro american activists are focusing on him. When I've talked about Pocahontas story, I was not talking about Bernie supporters. It's clear that 99% of Bernie supporters like Warren, so why would they attack her. the grown ups here are the moderates, who dont go after Warren, even if they could demonize her based on her "record", much more than progressives have done with Pete. And I cant with most of the people didnt demonize Hillary. That's a good joke. People voted trump or didnt vote because they believed she is"fishy"? More "fishy" than Trump? Then the joke is on you or them, with 2 conservative judges on the supreme court, a lot more federal judges, tax cuts for the rich, the rise of hate speech and hate crimes and so on. And it seems that u are ready to do it again with these out of proportion attacks against the candidates you dont like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillaume Hamon 7,025 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 11 hours ago, Florin said: Yea. "It improved a lot". Last time I checked Bernie still has bad numbers with afro-Americans. Biden has the best support from afro Americans, but I guess that it's not something that progressives want to hear. So you either lie or you didn't check in years cause being second with 20% of the black vote out of 18 candidates in the race doesn't seem "bad" to me. And yeah Biden is the one with the best support from black support, nobody denied that, but that doesn't make all the other candidates numbers automatically "bad". 11 hours ago, Florin said: the grown ups here are the moderates, who dont go after Warren, even if they could demonize her based on her "record", much more than progressives have done with Pete. Again, warren and others are not "demonized" cause it would mean she's not portrayed fairly. Saying I don't trust a person cause they vote for that bill etc is not "demonizing" this person. Actually warren got her fair share of "doubting progressives" if you follow progressives medias. I don't think she's getting a pass while Pete doesn't imo. 11 hours ago, Florin said: And I cant with most of the people didnt demonize Hillary. That's a good joke. It's political campaigns, they always all take crap for their past if it's what you call "being demonized" and they have to deal with it like every candidate do. 11 hours ago, Florin said: People voted trump or didnt vote because they believed she is"fishy"? More "fishy" than Trump? Actually the big majority of lefties who "believed she was fishy" voted for her anyway because they saw her as better than Trump so no people didn't really "voted for Trump cause they found her was fishy". They very largely were good soldiers and backed her anyway. There was a bigger thing with HRC supporters choosing Mc Cain over Obama yet I don't remember loyalty trials for her voters being 10% as big as the ones towards sanders voters who did better. Selective outrage I guess. I would add that Obama took Biden who has a political line close to HRC one as a way to "encourage" her voters to come back while HRC gave the finger to progressives when she took Kaine as her VP. So sanders voters were more loyal even with less incentives so really they can't be bashed for not being loyal enough. 11 hours ago, Florin said: And it seems that u are ready to do it again with these out of proportion attacks against the candidates you dont like. Ready to massively go vote for the lesser of two evils after seing the progressive candidate lost, just like they did the last time? Yeah I'm sure progressives will do it again. If calling a spade a spade is am ready "out of proportions attacks"... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bt1 5,213 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Guillaume Hamon said: So you either lie or you didn't check in years cause being second with 20% of the black vote out of 18 candidates in the race doesn't seem "bad" to me. And yeah Biden is the one with the best support from black support, nobody denied that, but that doesn't make all the other candidates numbers automatically "bad". Again, warren and others are not "demonized" cause it would mean she's not portrayed fairly. Saying I don't trust a person cause they vote for that bill etc is not "demonizing" this person. Actually warren got her fair share of "doubting progressives" if you follow progressives medias. I don't think she's getting a pass while Pete doesn't imo. It's political campaigns, they always all take crap for their past if it's what you call "being demonized" and they have to deal with it like every candidate do. Actually the big majority of lefties who "believed she was fishy" voted for her anyway because they saw her as better than Trump so no people didn't really "voted for Trump cause they found her was fishy". They very largely were good soldiers and backed her anyway. There was a bigger thing with HRC supporters choosing Mc Cain over Obama yet I don't remember loyalty trials for her voters being 10% as big as the ones towards sanders voters who did better. Selective outrage I guess. I would add that Obama took Biden who has a political line close to HRC one as a way to "encourage" her voters to come back while HRC gave the finger to progressives when she took Kaine as her VP. So sanders voters were more loyal even with less incentives so really they can't be bashed for not being loyal enough. Ready to massively go vote for the lesser of two evils after seing the progressive candidate lost, just like they did the last time? Yeah I'm sure progressives will do it again. If calling a spade a spade is am ready "out of proportions attacks"... Cool. If Sanders can go up, so can Pete. Btw, there are a lot of polls outhere. By googling the topic, I found more polls showing Bernie at 4 than at 2, but ok. :)) choose the truth you want cause u are good at that. and continue to talk about other things. I say that moderates could "demonize" Warren, you continue to talk about progressives. How many times I need to tell you that progressives like Warren? Its that so hard to understand? About the fact that Bernies voted mostly for Hillary : at the difference that made Trump president, it is important who didnt vote. If 1 of 10 voted for Trump and so many more didnt vote, it's clear that those progressive people were an important factor that made Trump president. U can be in denial how much u want, that it's the truth. Mentioning Clinton - McCain is stupid considering that most of those votes came in states where Obama didnt won and the fact that there is an important factor here that u ignore : racism. More important is not only that so many Bernie supporters voted Trump or didnt vote, but the impact they had on moderates and independents, who didnt vote in the primary. Again, u can go in denial and start talking about something else, that's the truth. U cant trash a candidate for months and then expect that moderates or independents didnt hear anything what u said, especially since republicans will make sure they do. Have a nice day. Spread the hate or spread the love. It's your choice. Bye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorusRa2 5,005 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Just a general comment but everyone can cherrypick polls to fit a narrative they want. EVERY candidate can do this. When you look at the aggregate of polls, Pete struggles with African American voters and polls among the best with whites. The question is whether or not he can fix that. He’s tried but the problem is he came into this primary from a largely white state with problematic records and relationships with people of color. You can say it’s unfair and you can make that argument but the fact is that is what he’s up against. As an aside, for those who think it’s okay to go the easy route and jump on Bernie with his polling with people of color, allow me to dispel some of the non-sense. Nobody is saying he’s winning African Americans. However, he is 2nd best to Biden with that demographic in the aggregate of polls. Yes, some may have him below Warren or lower (let’s also acknowledge that when you look at age, Bernie almost always wins the under 30 black vote but struggles with the 65+ black vote). Bernie consistently wins the Hispanic vote or is competitive with Biden (recent poll had him winning 51% of Hispanic college students). The demographic Bernie struggles with most is whites. He lands somewhere between 2nd-4th with whites especially with Pete’s rise. So, can we stop the clownery with the 2016 attacks that are no longer relevant? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALGAYDO 35,221 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 On 11/26/2019 at 2:49 PM, ltlmnstr said: All these Pete stans were nowhere to be found in the climate change denial staff member thread lmao I even quoted one and asked them about it. They then proceeded ignoring me and replied to other members calling them clowns. I have to fúcking laugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herassisfamous 1,418 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 On 11/26/2019 at 12:27 PM, OG Gaga Stan said: Where are the fathers?" talking point I really don’t think so. He’s clearly talking about how it’s harder for black people to succeed versus a privileged white to do so, and how that demotivates black kids because they feel like they have to put in twice the work to achieve the same thing with a white person. Oh and by the way the most hate and backlash to Pete comes from the LGBTQ community (especially gay men) itself. This is so sad. And 99% of the time it’s a stretch. I’m anti militaristic and I support Warren but I am really proud that there is a gay candidate who came this far in the presidential race. I just can’t understand why a lot of the people would try to drag him down instead of just being proud of him. Because he is a decent person as well. I mean if you dig Clinton like just a tiny bit, you’d see a lot of ****, but people would be like “you know she’s a politician” Well what is Pete? Like every time I go on this cult site, there’s allways a post dedicated to dragging Pete. Ugh we are the biggest homophobes srsly. All we need is love Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyster 2,458 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 this is literally why democrats will lose again in 2020 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othon 34,299 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 31 minutes ago, herassisfamous said: I really don’t think so. He’s clearly talking about how it’s harder for black people to succeed versus a privileged white to do so, and how that demotivates black kids because they feel like they have to put in twice the work to achieve the same thing with a white person. I've addressed this exact same argument five or six times in this thread. 32 minutes ago, herassisfamous said: Oh and by the way the most hate and backlash to Pete comes from the LGBTQ community (especially gay men) itself. This is so sad. The fact that we're capable of holding other queer people accountable for their atrocious records rather than blindly supporting them because they're a member of the community is a good thing, actually. 33 minutes ago, herassisfamous said: I’m anti militaristic and I support Warren If you're anti-militaristic, Warren isn't the candidate for you. She voted to expand Trump's military budget by nearly a trillion dollars. The only candidate that is making the case for radical cuts to the military budget is Sanders. 34 minutes ago, herassisfamous said: I am really proud that there is a gay candidate who came this far in the presidential race. I just can’t understand why a lot of the people would try to drag him down instead of just being proud of him. Because he is a decent person as well. I'm not going to blindly support a white gay man and hand wave the horrible things he's done because he's gay, and the idea that any queer person should do that is ridiculous. He's not a decent person. He fired his town's black police chief at the behest of donors after he recorded white officers spouting white supremacist rhetoric (https://theintercept.com/2019/09/20/pete-buttigieg-south-bend-police/), he bungled the response to a police shooting in South Bend, gentrified large portions of majority-black neighborhoods in his town, and, just recently, his campaign lied and claimed that black politicians in South Carolina had endorsed him when they hadn't. He's a mayor of a small town with no national political experience and a terrible record. He's hated by black residents in his town and liked by rich white people, which is exactly why the demographics in this race look the way they do. His policy proposals are atrocious, he's spent the entire primary attacking progressive proposals that could save the lives of millions of people, he's backed by rich elites and billionaire donors, and no one wants him to be president aside from the media and wealthy white voters. For good reason. 39 minutes ago, herassisfamous said: I mean if you dig Clinton like just a tiny bit, you’d see a lot of ****, but people would be like “you know she’s a politician” Well what is Pete? Hillary Clinton is a war criminal and I (and the other Sanders supporters in this thread) have criticized her for years. Rightfully. Politicians are not immune from scrutiny. 40 minutes ago, herassisfamous said: Like every time I go on this cult site, there’s allways a post dedicated to dragging Pete. Ugh we are the biggest homophobes srsly. We drag him because we're in the middle of a political primary and he deserves it. 42 minutes ago, herassisfamous said: Ugh we are the biggest homophobes srsly. Log off, dude. Jesus christ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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