Jump to content
Stefani Tee
society

Baby Kept On Vegan Diet Died. Vegan parents Arrested.

Featured Posts

Didymus
5 minutes ago, PartySick said:

A thought occurs, is human milk vegan? I've heard is is because you can get consent but it's still technically an animal product :hmm:

Of course it's vegan.

Humans, like cows and other mammals, produce milk exactly because it's supposed to nourish their children. There couldn't be a greater difference with cow's milk which is acquired by artificially inseminating mother cows, stealing their children away from them as soon as they're born so farmers can come in and steal all the milk themselves so humans (who don't benefit at all from drinking milk) can drink it while the cow's own children get an artificial diet.

Veganism is not about technical definitions. It's merely a response to what vegans consider inhumane practices of animal abuse. There's no separating animal products from some level of animal abuse. Breastfeeding, however, has absolutely no morally problematic dimensions.

Edited by Didymus

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites
Didymus

@StrawberryBlond This is what I ate during my recent trip to Walt Disney World in Florida. I don't regularly take pictures of my food (I guess I should and show them to you so we can compare) but here I have, so enjoy the variety, I hope you get hungry :giggle:

Breakfast:

73342845_10157500773484020_9183491341366

Lunch/dinner:

74842681_10157500774619020_2563993470238

73322563_10157500776834020_5554052098582

73246480_10157500775859020_7729068046022

74159812_10157500775394020_3270187411979

73322414_10157500777719020_7304203116528

Snacks:

72743550_10157500776569020_5495144457453

72684273_10157500776529020_8353018891668

I live such a sad, pathetic, boring unfulfilling life, right? :ladyhaha: Where's the flavor, where's the variety? Where's the nutritious value? Where's the calories?

I haven't lost weight since I went vegan, that should tell you all you need to know. I never had such a great intake of daily vitamins and overall nutrients. The only supplements I take are B12 and D and those are supplements literally everyone should take. Never felt better, never looked better, never ate better. And hey, I'm not paying for animals to be locked up, tortured and slaughtered in a life of stress and disease. How can anyone tell me I'm acting weird or irresponsible? :huh:

Edited by Didymus
  • Love 1

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites
KatieJudasGaga4
2 hours ago, Didymus said:Breakfast:

 

73342845_10157500773484020_9183491341366

Lunch/dinner:

74842681_10157500774619020_2563993470238

73322563_10157500776834020_5554052098582

73246480_10157500775859020_7729068046022

74159812_10157500775394020_3270187411979

73322414_10157500777719020_7304203116528

Snacks:

72743550_10157500776569020_5495144457453

72684273_10157500776529020_8353018891668

 

That looks bomb :saira:

 

My Holy Trinity: Lady Gaga, Imagine Dragons, Mariah Carey
  • Love 1

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites
StrawberryBlond
21 hours ago, ChromeAngel said:

B12 is produced by bacteria found in soil. It’s also found in natural water sources. Go eat an unwashed plant from the ground and you will get b12, assuming the soil isn’t destroyed. This is how humans have done it all of human history up until recently.

Creatine and Carnosine are both synthesized in the body and have plant sources. You are not required to eat heme iron. I’ve been vegan for about 7 years and I’m not iron deficient. I have no known deficiencies at all and absolutely no health concerns. I don’t usually take supplements and it’s been a couple years since I have.  Taurine is synthesized in the body. In fact if you’re male your testicles are producing it as we speak :enigma: 

Look and a carnivore and then take a look at a human. Do you not see the difference? It’s strange how so many people, the same people who (should) naturally experience empathy towards animals, would also like to somehow believe they’re natural born killers. Listen to your body. 

Then why does everywhere say that B12 can only come from animal products? You can keep saying all these things about these vitamins not being present in vegan foods but science says otherwise. You're maybe an unusual case that doesn't need to take supplements, but most people aren't like that. How is you saying that you've had no health concerns being vegan credible but me saying I've had no health concern being an omnivore isn't credible at all?

Of course there's a difference between carnivore and human. I never said that humans are carnivores, we're omnivores. You can feel empathy towards animals but still believe that they play a role in the circle of life, just like humans do. I do listen to my body and it says I feel fullest and happiest when I eat an omnivorous diet.

14 hours ago, Didymus said:

 :rip:

Don't you live in the US? 99% of all animal products Americans eat come from factory farming. So yeah... nope. Do your research. Factory farming is growing dramatically fast to the expense of local farms who give their animals enough space and opportunities to exhibit natural animal behavior.

The facts are not on your side, trust me. Despicable misrepresentation of reality in your posts, my god. I'm honestly stunned. Free-range eggs? You believe in those myths designed to ease consumers' natural discomfort about torturing animals and forbidding them from going outside and exhibit normal behavior? Most "free-range" chickens never see the sun or feel the air on their feathers. Free-range just means they're not in battery cages lol. That's not having the time of your life...

And they're not the same as natural carnivores either :giggle:

So now you're using cold northern countries as the standard for all humanity? :air: Those people were forced to eat meat because they chose to migrate to areas that were uninhabitable otherwise. The vast majority of other humans could survive perfectly on fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds. This is very well established, you're running behind on your historical readings.

Super disappointing reply. You support humane farming lmfao. I'd like to see your grocery receipts. I bet you're doing a marvellous job. Enjoy paying for animal abuse.

I don't, I live in the UK. Not saying our farming is perfect either but it's better than a lot of international operations. I don't support inhumane treatment and I don't think that meat has as much of a demand as the amount of meat produced would have us believe and it needs to be drastically cut back so animals don't lose their lives for nothing.

I've seen ads for Lidl where turkeys lived completely free range across barns and fields. Not saying all of them are like that but local farms in particular don't treat hens terribly. A lot of people own pet hens whose eggs they eat as and when they lay them. There's nothing harmful done to chickens if it's done right.

I never said we were carnivores. We are omnivores.

I'm using cold northern countries as an example that humans can live without a herbivorous diet. How do you think eskimos survived and still survive?

I don't even really eat much meat at all. It's dairy that's the bigger culprit for me. There's no need for the condescending reply.

13 hours ago, Didymus said:

Again showing off your fundamental ignorance about the subjects under discussion. The (very conservative) World Health Organization has confirmed that processed meats (sausages, bacon,...) absolutely cause cancer and that other red meats "probably" do.

_86336027_cancerous_meat_624.png

Processed meat is regarded to be just as risky in relation to cancer as alcohol and plutonium, meaning: you can get cancer just from consuming processed meat (and "probably" other red meats). So yes. You have been consuming cancer, paying for a greater cancer risk probably like two times a day. Enjoy.

Here's another fun figure for you: "Estimates suggest 34,000 deaths from cancer every year could be down to diets high in processed meat."

Immediately lobbyists, industry representatives and farmer unions jumped on these facts and negated their importance out of fear of selling less products. You're one of the people who have been fooled by their ridiculous, unscientific rhetoric. Congratulations.

Source

I've seen this stuff before but I think it's far too general. People who eat it occasionally should be under no more harm than any other potentially harmful behaviours. Let's put it this way, studies are starting to show that extreme exercise could be just as unhealthy as no activity at all. One's not pushing their heart hard enough, the other's pushing it too far. Extremes are rarely healthy.

13 hours ago, Didymus said:

@StrawberryBlond This is what I ate during my recent trip to Walt Disney World in Florida. I don't regularly take pictures of my food (I guess I should and show them to you so we can compare) but here I have, so enjoy the variety, I hope you get hungry :giggle:

Breakfast:

73342845_10157500773484020_9183491341366

Lunch/dinner:

74842681_10157500774619020_2563993470238

73322563_10157500776834020_5554052098582

73246480_10157500775859020_7729068046022

74159812_10157500775394020_3270187411979

73322414_10157500777719020_7304203116528

Snacks:

72743550_10157500776569020_5495144457453

72684273_10157500776529020_8353018891668

I live such a sad, pathetic, boring unfulfilling life, right? :ladyhaha: Where's the flavor, where's the variety? Where's the nutritious value? Where's the calories?

I haven't lost weight since I went vegan, that should tell you all you need to know. I never had such a great intake of daily vitamins and overall nutrients. The only supplements I take are B12 and D and those are supplements literally everyone should take. Never felt better, never looked better, never ate better. And hey, I'm not paying for animals to be locked up, tortured and slaughtered in a life of stress and disease. How can anyone tell me I'm acting weird or irresponsible? :huh:

With the exception of the desserts, this doesn't look appealing to me. What even is that brown stuff in the first one? Because it looks like literal pieces of s**t. Everything else just looks like a pile of bland vegetables with no extra substance. Salads alone are a good accompaniment, but not the main course. The vegan hotdog would look better without all that extra stuff on top (ketchup is vegan, that would've made it look better) and I'm not even remotely interested in trying sushi, real fish or otherwise. If you enjoy this stuff, great, maybe it's flavoursome to you but I couldn't do it. I mean, you don't even have fries and they're vegan! If I went vegan, I'd be a super unhealthy one who eats fake meats, fries, Oreos, artificially flavoured potato chips and so on the majority of the time. It's the only stuff that I could actually enjoy.

If it works for you, great. I never said you were acting weird or irresponsible. I don't look down on your choice of diet, I just want you to go about your business without bringing down mine. We're made to feel guilty for more stuff than ever in this day and age. I'm not going to let my diet be one of them.

  • LMAO 1
  • Sad 1

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites
Didymus
20 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I've seen ads for Lidl where turkeys lived completely free range across barns and fields.

 

20 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I'm using cold northern countries as an example that humans can live without a herbivorous diet. How do you think eskimos survived and still survive?

 

20 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I mean, you don't even have fries and they're vegan!

giphy.gif

I'm so done with you omg.

20 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I just want you to go about your business without bringing down mine. We're made to feel guilty for more stuff than ever in this day and age. I'm not going to let my diet be one of them.

Your diet requires the locking up, torturing and killing of innocent sentient beings by the billions. Don't act surprised when I have a problem with it :air: You can eat what you want but that doesn't erase the reality behind your purchase. This is not about you.

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites
StrawberryBlond
1 minute ago, Didymus said:

 

 

giphy.gif

I'm so done with you omg.

Your diet requires the locking up, torturing and killing of innocent sentient beings by the billions. Don't act surprised when I have a problem with it :air: You can eat what you want but that doesn't erase the reality behind your purchase. This is not about you.

Just because you find my statements inane doesn't mean everyone else does.

You can have a problem with it all you want but at the very least, get mad at the meat industry instead of us normal citizens eating it. If meat was no longer made, I wouldn't take it upon myself to personally butcher an animal and eat it, no matter how much I craved it. The only exception to this would be in a literal life or death situation. So, yeah, get mad at the source of the issue rather than those of us who are buying it.

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites
Didymus
1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

You can have a problem with it all you want but at the very least, get mad at the meat industry instead of us normal citizens eating it.

That's a fallacy. You invest money into the meat industry every single day multiple times a day. The reason the meat industry survives is your choices, just like they were mine before I went vegan :shrug:

I'm not trying to shoot the pianist and become personal, but the reality is what it is. Purchasing animal products in a grocery store is a financial investment. And I can take issue with that investment, of course I can. I don't care that you like to eat meat, I like it too. But there is no way to separate eating meat from supporting the meat industry. When you realize that, you might stop taking this discussion so personally.

You have to send the proper signal to wider society. You can't blame a butcher for producing animal products because you buy them. If you know there's something wrong with eating what you eat, then it's your responsibility to do something about it, to send a different signal, invest in a different industry, help contribute to the plant-based alternative market. You're doing the opposite with your choices. You're actively blocking the rise of the plant-based industry by waiting for other people to make a change while you're happily supporting the same ol' companies.

I'm no saint. I've only been vegan for one year. And I've dealt with a lot of regret and guilt about my non-vegan years long investments into an industry I now despise. I can't blame myself 100% for my habits because I didn't know what I know now. That's why I don't blame you either. It's extremely rare for someone to be properly informed about what animals go through before they end up on our plate, even on an organic, local farm. So no, I don't blame or hate you. But, again, reality is reality, consequences are consequences. Your choices not only support but fund animal cruelty. And I will always take issue wih that, no matter how much I may respect you as a human being.

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites
StrawberryBlond
4 hours ago, Didymus said:

That's a fallacy. You invest money into the meat industry every single day multiple times a day. The reason the meat industry survives is your choices, just like they were mine before I went vegan :shrug:

I'm not trying to shoot the pianist and become personal, but the reality is what it is. Purchasing animal products in a grocery store is a financial investment. And I can take issue with that investment, of course I can. I don't care that you like to eat meat, I like it too. But there is no way to separate eating meat from supporting the meat industry. When you realize that, you might stop taking this discussion so personally.

You have to send the proper signal to wider society. You can't blame a butcher for producing animal products because you buy them. If you know there's something wrong with eating what you eat, then it's your responsibility to do something about it, to send a different signal, invest in a different industry, help contribute to the plant-based alternative market. You're doing the opposite with your choices. You're actively blocking the rise of the plant-based industry by waiting for other people to make a change while you're happily supporting the same ol' companies.

I'm no saint. I've only been vegan for one year. And I've dealt with a lot of regret and guilt about my non-vegan years long investments into an industry I now despise. I can't blame myself 100% for my habits because I didn't know what I know now. That's why I don't blame you either. It's extremely rare for someone to be properly informed about what animals go through before they end up on our plate, even on an organic, local farm. So no, I don't blame or hate you. But, again, reality is reality, consequences are consequences. Your choices not only support but fund animal cruelty. And I will always take issue wih that, no matter how much I may respect you as a human being.

How am I personally buying into it, least of all several times a day? I've always lived with my parents, they buy any and all meat. I even ate a vegetarian diet today without realising.

I realise the difference between eating meat and supporting the meat industry. But the fact that we only buy the highest quality, RSPCA assured farm meat and free range eggs is surely much better than buying cheap meat and eggs that don't state where they come from? I said myself previously that the meat industry needs to take a major step back because the supply vastly outstrips demand, even in the days before veganism became as popular as it is now. I welcome the removal of fresh meat and fish markets in supermarkets as no one ever seemed to use them, preferring to buy packaged meat and fish in the chilled/frozen section. It always made me annoyed to walk past that section and see all that fresh meat on display that no one was buying, these animals were losing their lives for nothing. Supermarkets throw out so much meat. My local butcher's closed, I'm rapidly seeing less and less butchers everywhere. All that sends a message which at the very least is "we do not need the level of meat that you are producing." That's a message that's long overdue. If animals are going to continue to die for us to eat, we'd better start producing more reasonable amounts to fit demand, not stuffing shelves with meat up and down the country which will never sell (I think the price of certain meat, particularly steak and chops, are a big reason why so many of them remain unsold). But for the record, vegan stuff is struggling to sell too, partly because it's very expensive but also because a lot of people simply don't like the taste. I don't want to eat nutty tasting milk or nutty tasting cheese. Both options have downsides and reasons why they're not selling. Expense, personal taste, etc. all come into it. Not eating a type of food doesn't always send the same message.

Of course I know what animals go through before ending up our plate, I never pretended to not know. But I still say it's a necessary evil, though I don't envy those who have to do it. Knowing but still eating it doesn't make us heartless, we just have a different way of viewing what we deem natural eating.

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites
Economy
On 12/3/2019 at 1:45 AM, Didymus said:

Of course it's vegan.

Humans, like cows and other mammals, produce milk exactly because it's supposed to nourish their children. There couldn't be a greater difference with cow's milk which is acquired by artificially inseminating mother cows, stealing their children away from them as soon as they're born so farmers can come in and steal all the milk themselves so humans (who don't benefit at all from drinking milk) can drink it while the cow's own children get an artificial diet.

Veganism is not about technical definitions. It's merely a response to what vegans consider inhumane practices of animal abuse. There's no separating animal products from some level of animal abuse. Breastfeeding, however, has absolutely no morally problematic dimensions.

That's debatable as some studies have shown children on milk alternative drinks grow less than children on regular milk

 

There's even further evidence that milk like goat milk which is more simmilar to human milk in composition and more easily digestible and it's nutrients absorbed maybe quite nutritious

 

The statement that humans get nothing out of milk is too generic and frankly not something there's a clear consensus on to put it forward as a fact

Edited by Economy

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites
Didymus
3 hours ago, Economy said:

That's debatable as some studies have shown children on milk alternative drinks grow less than children on regular milk

 

There's even further evidence that milk like goat milk which is more simmilar to human milk in composition and more easily digestible and it's nutrients absorbed maybe quite nutritious

 

The statement that humans get nothing out of milk is too generic and frankly not something there's a clear consensus on to put it forward as a fact

Ok but you’re talking about the modern milk industry. If you really think it would be normal in contemporary society for someone to lay down under a cow or goat, sucking up some fresh milk... Outside of modern society it’s clear none of us is meant to drink milk, hence it’s impossible we’re designed to thrive on it. All the nutrients in milk are easily enjoyed in other far more accessible products. That’s what I meant with that short sentence.

That’s the whole thing about the “it’s natural to eat this way” argument @StrawberryBlond There’s nothing natural about a diet high in animal products. If you wanna go out and eat raw meat in a jungle, fine, but I doubt it. The only reason we consume meat is because we manipulate it long enough so we can actually eat it and not die from it. How is that natural behavior? Same with your free range eggs. Wild chickens only lay eggs once or twice a year to reproduce. We’ve genetically manipulated these animals to lay eggs almost every day. Call that what you want but it definitely is not natural.

  • Like 1

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites
Didymus
6 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

How am I personally buying into it, least of all several times a day? I've always lived with my parents, they buy any and all meat. I even ate a vegetarian diet today without realising.

Is that supposed to impress me? You hide behind your parents’ choices, further denying your own responsibility?

Buying free range eggs is like beating your dog only once a week. These animals still live a short life of cruelty and disease, still have their beaks seared off with no sedation and still die in a horrendous way. Just stop paying for that. It’s not rocket science.

I understand habits and how powerful they are but there’s no need to twist the facts. Modern farming is not animal friendly, the end. There’s gradations of cruelty, sure, but why is that so important to mention? It’s completely irrational to stress you’re doing a necessary evil when there’s no real necessity at all. Habits can change. There wouldn’t be such a massively rising number of vegetarians and vegans if that wasn’t true.

  • Like 1

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites
noisullitcefrep

People always complain that vegans/vegetarians are always trying to push an agenda on everybody else but this threat kind of shows that it is the other way around a lot of the time:selena: Like, as soon as the topic vegetarism/veganism comes up, everybody turns on you trying to convince you of how wrong you are.

Doesn't even matter what is right but a discussion about this topic is never well balanced (kind of goes in both directions, however, since vegans/vegetarians are a minority, "meat-eaters" are in this position most of the time).

  • Like 2

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites
StrawberryBlond
9 hours ago, Didymus said:

Ok but you’re talking about the modern milk industry. If you really think it would be normal in contemporary society for someone to lay down under a cow or goat, sucking up some fresh milk... Outside of modern society it’s clear none of us is meant to drink milk, hence it’s impossible we’re designed to thrive on it. All the nutrients in milk are easily enjoyed in other far more accessible products. That’s what I meant with that short sentence.

That’s the whole thing about the “it’s natural to eat this way” argument @StrawberryBlond There’s nothing natural about a diet high in animal products. If you wanna go out and eat raw meat in a jungle, fine, but I doubt it. The only reason we consume meat is because we manipulate it long enough so we can actually eat it and not die from it. How is that natural behavior? Same with your free range eggs. Wild chickens only lay eggs once or twice a year to reproduce. We’ve genetically manipulated these animals to lay eggs almost every day. Call that what you want but it definitely is not natural.

No, we wouldn't suck it directly from the teat. We've been collecting it by milking their udders into buckets for centuries and we still do (though most do it through modern methods now). Could I ask you this - how is a woman who can't breastfeed her newborn (many are incapable) supposed to nourish them? Or her breast milk works at first but then dries up? And how is a father supposed to feed his mother-less newborn? Cow's milk has been the answer to these issues and as such, is a vital thing in society. Out of all the necessary evils, this is #1. I've heard about vegan formulations being in development but will they really provide the same nutrients? How can that be reproduced? And if you think, like a lot of vegans do, that we're not supposed to drink cow's milk because it's designed to raise a baby calf into a full-grown cow, well...we're not the size of cows. The only reasoning given as to why bottle fed babies tend to be a bit overweight is because the baby doesn't really know when to stop drinking when it's not breast milk. It's like our bodies know we're not cows, so doesn't try to make us grow into the size of cows. Our body is a lot more advanced than you give it credit for.

It is natural if we've been doing it for centuries. It doesn't kill us on the spot so it must be safe for us to eat. And for the record, you can manipulate vegan foods as well to make them palatable. Put it this way, I've heard vegans say that we don't really like meat because if we did, we'd eat it raw and unseasoned but instead, we put in in among other flavoursome foods, dip it in sauces, marinade it, etc. all to cover up the taste of a dead body. But vegans always season all their food as well! It's almost as if they're looking for a way for bland food to taste nicer! Hardly any food is eaten completely in its natural form, we alter it because on its own, a lot of stuff is very bland tasting, animal product or not.

8 hours ago, Didymus said:

Is that supposed to impress me? You hide behind your parents’ choices, further denying your own responsibility?

Buying free range eggs is like beating your dog only once a week. These animals still live a short life of cruelty and disease, still have their beaks seared off with no sedation and still die in a horrendous way. Just stop paying for that. It’s not rocket science.

I understand habits and how powerful they are but there’s no need to twist the facts. Modern farming is not animal friendly, the end. There’s gradations of cruelty, sure, but why is that so important to mention? It’s completely irrational to stress you’re doing a necessary evil when there’s no real necessity at all. Habits can change. There wouldn’t be such a massively rising number of vegetarians and vegans if that wasn’t true.

I don't have responsibility if I don't buy them, do I?

Not all chickens have these things happen to them. Well-kept ones won't exactly live any longer, a chicken just has a set lifespan, like all species. Thing is, animals don't live like we do. They don't go to university or have jobs or do chores or have hobbies that they do at the weekend. They don't invent things or philosophise, they can't even speak. Their entire lives are based around instinct, eating, sleeping and having sex. They look after their babies for a few short years/months/weeks/days in among that and then repeat the same cycle. They don't live enjoyable, fruitful lives for decades on end. That's why a human dying is more tragic than an animal as humans have something to give in this world. Animals are produced quicker in larger numbers, live short lifespans and live boring lives where they don't do anything. It's hardly the most tragic thing if one of them dies. And animals don't care about humans, they just look out for their own. How are we selfish for just looking out for our own, if all species are equal?

8 hours ago, noisullitcefrep said:

People always complain that vegans/vegetarians are always trying to push an agenda on everybody else but this threat kind of shows that it is the other way around a lot of the time:selena: Like, as soon as the topic vegetarism/veganism comes up, everybody turns on you trying to convince you of how wrong you are.

Doesn't even matter what is right but a discussion about this topic is never well balanced (kind of goes in both directions, however, since vegans/vegetarians are a minority, "meat-eaters" are in this position most of the time).

How many documentaries do you see about the dangers of veganism? How many pro-meat protests have you ever seen? Face it, meat eaters just live their lives without bothering the people who eat other diets. You don't see us hurling abuse at people leaving vegan cafes. We believe humans have the right to eat the diet they choose without being hassled for it. It reminds of religious dogma being forced on us by "do-gooders." People just want to be left alone. We only attack when they attack us first. I was acquaintances with a vegan girl in university and thank God, she wasn't high and mighty about it and respected my right to eat whatever I wanted. Hence, I never felt the need to challenge her diet in any way or even address it. Meat eaters don't go on about our diets, it's just what we eat, no big deal. So we don't react well to vegans announcing their choice and going on about it or trying to convince others into it.

It is well balanced when it comes to evidence. Both sides of the debate seem to have enough from their perspective. Both sides seeming to be equal suggests that there isn't necessarily a right and wrong way to diet, it all comes down to personal choice and perhaps, everything in moderation.

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites
Didymus
1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Could I ask you this - how is a woman who can't breastfeed her newborn (many are incapable) supposed to nourish them? Or her breast milk works at first but then dries up? And how is a father supposed to feed his mother-less newborn? Cow's milk has been the answer to these issues and as such, is a vital thing in society. Out of all the necessary evils, this is #1. I've heard about vegan formulations being in development but will they really provide the same nutrients? How can that be reproduced?

 I'm happy to inform you that there are plenty of dairy free and fully vegan baby formulas on the market, so the drama of your post is both unnecessary and comical.

Cow's milk is the easiest product in the whole range of non-vegan foods to replace. Supermarkets are filled to the brim these days with soy milk, rice milk, almond milk, cashew milk,... all in multiple varieties to suit your needs.

To go back to this now:

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

No, we wouldn't suck it directly from the teat.

Why not? If it's such a natural food, why does it need to be organized at all? Could it be that when you imagine yourself hanging on to an animal's teat you realize that would be unnatural and kinda gross?

That alone is proof that drinking another animal's milk can never be called "natural" like you chose to do. Imagine another species locking up human women, artificially impregnating them so they lactate, steal their children away from them (who are killed when they are only just a few weeks old) and mechanically milk those women to sell as a human friendly product. Nope. Nothing natural or normal about it.

Cow's milk is for cows. Under no circumstance should young cows be deprived of their natural food (funny how you make the case for human babies who require all the nutrients in breastmilk but you won't defend the young cows who never taste the milk of their mother which is literally designed for them to grow properly—that's the ideology talking, and that's the ideology I despise and will never stop opposing) to satisfy unnecessary human habits.

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

It is natural if we've been doing it for centuries. It doesn't kill us on the spot so it must be safe for us to eat. And for the record, you can manipulate vegan foods as well to make them palatable. Put it this way, I've heard vegans say that we don't really like meat because if we did, we'd eat it raw and unseasoned but instead, we put in in among other flavoursome foods, dip it in sauces, marinade it, etc. all to cover up the taste of a dead body. But vegans always season all their food as well! It's almost as if they're looking for a way for bland food to taste nicer! Hardly any food is eaten completely in its natural form, we alter it because on its own, a lot of stuff is very bland tasting, animal product or not.

But you're completely missing the point. No one is arguing about taste. Of course cooked meat tastes good. Of course seasoned vegan dishes taste good. The difference lies in the process of preparing the food. Would you go out and kill a dozen animals every day so you can eat animal products a couple of times a day? Probably not because most humans would find that repulsive.

Most dedicated meat eaters will never be seen in a slaughterhouse, not even if you paid them. Because it opposes our natural instincts. We become uncomfortable from the mere sight of butchering an animal, now imagine you had to kill them non-stop. You wouldn't. Which is why it's debatable to call eating meat "natural". How can it be natural if almost no one is willing to do what eating meat requires?

Growing, picking and cooking vegetables and fruits on the other hand is far more attractive to most humans. It brings to mind images of relaxation and purity. Cutting through animal flesh, feeling warm blood on your arms, skinning the beasts and having to take out innards,... almost no one would be willing to pay that price. That should make you think.

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I don't have responsibility if I don't buy them, do I?

Of course you do. You can tell your parents you won't be eating animal products anymore and they can stop paying them for you.

Crazy.

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Not all chickens have these things happen to them. Well-kept ones won't exactly live any longer, a chicken just has a set lifespan, like all species.

Completely untrue. A chicken raised in a backyard can easily live eight to ten years. All chickens raised for slaughter die within their first year, most of them die when they can't even be called an adult chicken yet.

Besides, we haven't even mentioned the thousands and thousands of male chicks who get killed for being "useless" just because people want to eat eggs. I'd love to hear you talk about "necessary evils" in that scenario. Stop buying eggs, they're a cruel product. And any footage of a regular chicken meat farm will turn your stomach. Trust me on that. Chicken and pigs are without a doubt the most abused farm animals on the planet.

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Thing is, animals don't live like we do.

Then let's kill your pets and eat them. Most farm animals are highly intelligent (pigs and chickens, for example, are just as intelligent as dogs) so I don't know what you're on about. We're not talking about insects. We're talking about sentient beings who feel pain, feel enjoyment, feel anger and sadness. Just because we have more complex emotions than they do doesn't mean we get to do whatever we want with them.

Imagine if a superior race of aliens came to Earth and decided to farm us because, hey, we're not as highly evolved as they are. Would you say that was fair or would you say that was cruel? Of course you would. But you would at least be able to protest verbally and physically. Animals can't even do that. Their entire lives are dominated by human will. To eat them. That's the definition of cruelty. And you're supporting it. Great job.

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

How many documentaries do you see about the dangers of veganism? How many pro-meat protests have you ever seen?

There are no documentaries about the dangers of veganism because there are no dangers. As for pro-meat protest, erm, just open up any news article about veganism or read any post on Facebook about it. A lot of people despise vegans and have no problem saying it.

I have no idea how you haven't encountered the massive online (and offline) hatred for vegans. It's literally everywhere.

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

We believe humans have the right to eat the diet they choose without being hassled for it. It reminds of religious dogma being forced on us by "do-gooders." People just want to be left alone.

And animals do too. Which is why vegans have a problem with omnivorous diets. Because their "choice" is not individual. Their "choice" involves the locking up, torturing, and killing of billions of animals per year. Which is not only problematic on a moral basis, it's literally ****ing up the planet. Animal agriculture plays a massive role in climate change.

So yeah, you're destroying our planet with your "choices". Why should I respect them? Your choices produce mass suffering. Should we leave parents who torture and murder their pets alone because, hey, it's their house? Should we leave rapists alone when they have succeeded in capturing a victim because, hey, it's their choice? Your "logic" leads to pure chaos. You're just lucky that your favorite form of cruely is the cultural norm. I will not be made to feel guilty because I call it what it is. Cruelty.

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Meat eaters don't go on about our diets, it's just what we eat, no big deal.

I already told you. It's not about what you eat. It's what you pay for. Life long animal cruelty and irreparable damage to the planet. No big deal you say? Wel, then that's very telling of what kind of person you are.

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

It is well balanced when it comes to evidence. Both sides of the debate seem to have enough from their perspective. Both sides seeming to be equal suggests that there isn't necessarily a right and wrong way to diet, it all comes down to personal choice and perhaps, everything in moderation.

False. When someone's personal choice involves mass suffering and extreme damage to our natural world, it is not "moderate" and it is clearly wrong on some level.

Just because you choose to shove your head in the sand doesn't mean everyone else should. There is also no "balance" when it comes to evidence. All climate change experts agree that going vegan is the easiest and one of the most important contributions every one of us can make to combat climate change and all of its related disasters.

Most medical experts today agree that a well executed vegan diet is far superior in terms of health advantages and disease risk reduction than a standard omnivorous diet. This is not even news anymore, it's evidence-based and it's been out there for years now. Watch The Game Changers if you want the pop version of these facts.

So no, all of the evidence points to the conclusion that an omnivorous diet is very problematic on multiple levels and a vegan diet is far less problematic on those levels and is almost not problematic on any substantial level. So inform yourself and make a change. Or don't. But don't spread lies.

Edited by Didymus
  • Like 1

Share


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...