Donald Trump Has 158 Judges Confirmed!

[audrey horne 1,180]

@KleinGa @En_Sabah_Nur @RAMROD

So much ignorant sh*t on this thread.

I totally understand and respect people who didn’t vote for Hillary. If you are looking for someone to blame, you better start investigating why people were desperate or angry enough to fall into Trump’s populist trap. 

From an european perspective Hillary just looks like a right-wing neo-liberal conservative, pro-war plus a lobbies’s b*tch. Tell me how you find that appealing. Your binary system (demo/rep) is so wrong and dangerously bending towards the reps. And it's a worldwide phenomenon. Have you ever heard of the concept of Overton’s window? Just as an exemple, here in France, Macron (basically our Hillary) is apllying LePen's far-right ideas right now. Breaking historic social rights and diminishing refugees and low classes living conditions everyday to benefit the wealthiest. 

There is so much more than red/blue or left/right systems. Hillarys or Macrons are not answers. Now it's mainly far right-populism against neoliberalism (left or right : same sh*t). Both are destructive on so many levels and unless you are privileged enough, I don't understand how this binary choice can satisfy you. 

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

4 hours ago, KleinGa said:

Nobody here is blaming Bernie for this. We are blaming (and rightly so) the people who were #BernieorBust. Your candidate lost, even if you think it was unfair, your obligation was to band together to stand against Trump. Instead, the Bernie bros decided to further slander Hillary, scream #NeverHillary, wrote in #BernieorBust, VOTED FOR TRUMP, and eve voted third party. So yes, Trump is as a result of those people. They put him there. 
 

Bernie half assed his support for Hillary and failed to discourage his fans from not supporting the democratic party simply because he felt entitled to the presidency. 
 

Enough is enough. 

Where do I start...
"He felt entitled to the presidency" sounds like something spoken by someone that's never paid attention to him speak, I'm sorry but I cackled just a bit reading that. 

It's also just... super revisionist? We know now definitively that the DNC and superdelegates DID rig this against Bernie in 2016 where there were locations he should have won but didn't ultimately. His campaign had problems, I'm not saying he would've won definitively in the primaries w.o DNC influence, but it was certainly a big factor. That being said, he supported Hillary ENTHUSIASTICALLY and said that Donald Trump would be the most dangerous president in American History - a statement he stands by today - and told his supporters to all go and vote for Hillary Clinton. That's literally all he can do. He did all the things he could and should do in that situation. Any grudge held beyond that point is on you.

There's NO numerical, polling-based basis for the claim that people who supported Bernie in the primary but voted for Trump are the people that directly gave Trump the presidency. For perspective, more Hillary Clinton voters in 2008 voted for John McCain or third party over Obama than Sanders supporters for Trump but we don't call all of those people racist spoilers because Obama ran an inspiring and effective campaign that didnt have to rely on upper middle class racist white people to get elected If Hillary CARED about garnering the votes of these people, she would have more actively courted them. She made no attempts.

 One thing that we do know in numbers is that there were enough registered democrats and likely voters in 2016 in each of those states and districts that stayed home because they by admission didn't feel inspired by Hillary Clinton to go vote for her - enough to have easily given her the win in all of those places. The message to learn here is to canvas effectively, don't take the electorate's votes for granted. 

Take this to heart:

"Vote blue no matter who" is a terrible  self-sabotaging strategy. You don't have to be a political scientist or pundit or surrogate to know that historically excitement for a candidate, an inspiring vision for the future, concrete policies to an extent, and base ideology  are integral parts of what gets people to vote. If the Democrats want to ignore huge parts of this equation and fall back on "but the opponent is worse!" out of fear for nominating someone who has a better shot of winning, then we will lose again in 2020. And it won't be be because people "vote third party" or "vote Trump instead of _____ centrist democrat" but because Democrats DID NOT appeal to those people. It is the responsibility of the person running to appeal to people to vote for them. A vote in the opposite or tangential direction is not *that* person's fault, it is the person running's fault for not adequately conveying their message to that person. That's how campaigning works. You don't get to blame people for voting a way you don't like when they genuinely did not like the candidate. 

As pointed out earlier, Bernie Sanders has high support amongst progressive liberals AND independents - the largest and most untapped voting block in America. Let's acknowledge some things:

Bernie and Trump both ran populist (or Nationalist in the case of Trump, but disguised as Populist) campaigns. I'm not sure if you remember, but Trump freaking promised Universal Health Care for crying out loud.  He said he would drain the swamp, make term limits for congress people, fight political corruption in lobbying revolving doors. For the politically disengaged who feel like Congress and Washington is just corrupt, no one cares about people, everyone's a liar, fake, etc... that kind of thing is very appealing, a lot more so than the things typical Democrats care about. So YES some people who supported Bernie as an anti-establishment candidate may have very enthusiastically went to Trump over Hillary. Her fake and real scandals aside, Hillary was undoubtedly a center-left, establishment candidate and she made no attempts to hide it or to even try to win over this group of people.

Obviously, he lied about all of those things to get elected, but we can't quantify what's in people's hearts just from exit polling, nor can we blame people for being fed up with establishment politics when its so darn ineffective.  One last thing: many people don't vote because they are poor and disenfranchised. There are Millions of people for whom this is the situation. They don't have the time or mental space to watch the news, watch the (terrible) debates, pick whose the best candidate, understand and research all their policy and public statements, etc. I know "if you didn't vote, you can't complain, its your fault, etc. etc" all sounds fair on paper but maybe think about it before you say it and consider your privilege.

When you say things like "if you didn't vote or you voted third party, you asked for this - this is your fault" you are ignoring the fact that MILLIONS of poor and underprivileged people are in a situation not of their choosing where they cannot afford to be engaged and are systematically drawn away from politics. The number of people who are politically active, engaged, etc. and still didn't vote is almost certainly a less significant number than those who don't have the time, energy, willpower, etc. to vote or to even know how/where to go to vote. This line of attack is lazy, irresponsible, and frankly classist. Take responsibility, learn from your mistakes, and do better next time - at any establishment Democrat supporters.

 

[Eighteen 5,430]

a lot of people don't know politics, that's kinda the bottom line if you ask me. nobody ever points the finger to The People to say that a big part of the problem is there. 

everything that trump's doing now he pretty clearly stated he would do all throughout his campaign (which lasted like 2 years), except in the campaign it was much worse (he wanted a muslim registry, to dismantle NATO, his fake news campaign was in full swing, etc), but bizarrely 63 million people (just a couple of million people below half of voters, which in this context is a sh*t ton of people if you ask me), saw that as a good thing, go figure. and it's not just people on the right either, and you can just look at the arguments bernie people were making during the primary and the general, comparing hillary and donald as if they were somehow on the same level of wickedness. like.... what? lol 

[Eighteen 5,430]

and one more thing, i keep seeing people say that bernie supporters weren't responsible for hillary's loss, that's technically correct, as it's really just a small percentage of bernie supporters who are responsible. i did a more in-depth look at this a couple of months ago, but the sliver of LIBERAL bernie supporters who stayed home or went third party (and that would be jill stein supporters as gary johnson is considered conservative to me) was in the context of such a close election in several states, enough to make a difference. 

and, yes, establishment democrats did make a mistake with superdelegates in the primary, nobody i think disputes that. it's just that people nit pick too much and want the perfect candidate. if you love barack obama so much (as he is very popular these days) take some of his advice and chill out. a little bit of progress (rather than a huge swath of it) is always better than being sent straight back to the dark ages. pretty obvious, but after seeing 2016, not really, so gl to us all in 2020 if joe biden wins the nomination. i suspect half the democratic base staying home in that scenario lol. 

[Mister G 10,513]

30 minutes ago, Eighteen said:

and one more thing, i keep seeing people say that bernie supporters weren't responsible for hillary's loss, that's technically correct, as it's really just a small percentage of bernie supporters who are responsible. i did a more in-depth look at this a couple of months ago, but the sliver of LIBERAL bernie supporters who stayed home or went third party (and that would be jill stein supporters as gary johnson is considered conservative to me) was in the context of such a close election in several states, enough to make a difference. 

and, yes, establishment democrats did make a mistake with superdelegates in the primary, nobody i think disputes that. it's just that people nit pick too much and want the perfect candidate. if you love barack obama so much (as he is very popular these days) take some of his advice and chill out. a little bit of progress (rather than a huge swath of it) is always better than being sent straight back to the dark ages. pretty obvious, but after seeing 2016, not really, so gl to us all in 2020 if joe biden wins the nomination. i suspect half the democratic base staying home in that scenario lol. 

I think it’s safe to say Biden would be the worst choice and a repeat of 2016. 

[hankhatesyouall 2,731]

Marvelous. The Democrats will not be able to seize full power in our life time no matter how many little socialists they can brainwash

[Queen Artpop 62]

7 hours ago, En_Sabah_Nur said:

12% of Bernie primary voters, ended up voting for Trump!  
 

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

 

And 9% of Obama voters defected to Trump. At some point you'd think there'd be some self-awareness involved here. Like, "wow, how could we be so unappealing, revolting and bad for these voters that they'd switch from Bernie Sanders and Obama - to Donald Trump the TV host." But yeah that'd require some reflection and honesty. Not easy to find I guess!

[Queen Artpop 62]

6 hours ago, Morphine Prince said:

Lol at the Bernie blaming. Do you people remember Bernie won Michigan and Wisconsin in the primaries? 

If he were the nominee and won and lost everything Hillary did he could have AT LEAST carried those two states Hillary failed to effectively campaign in. 

It’s 2019. Wake up to the reality. You’re about to make the same mistake in 2020. 

"Effectively" campaign is putting it nicely. She didn't even bother going there once. Instead she campaigned numerous times in Texas (never happening, give it up Delishis) and California(??) and other solidly blue states. Her campaign was utterly clueless about what was happening right under their noses all over the country. Bernie would never.

[KleinGa 18,177]

The level of Bernie delusion in this thread is astonishing. I see Trump 2020 victory is guaranteed. Congrats Bernie Bros, yall will f*ck us all over yet AGAIN 

[Mister G 10,513]

2 hours ago, Lilmonzter said:

Demonizing Bernie Sanders or his supporters adds nothing to the conversation.  I believe Trump is a necessary evil in the current political system.

Hillary Clinton was and always will be a terrible candidate she had so much baggage including her husband. And in your opinion people should shut their eyes and heed to what the lesser of two evils are there?, I mean I agree Hillary would have been some what of a more stable president but since she hijacked the primaries people karma happened.

She got what she deserved.

She won the popular vote.

I identify as an independent, but democrats really have this victim mentality that's why they keep losing. 

Elect someone like Warren and you surely will lose to trump, in head to head matchup,  she's losing to him.

Amen. 

[imnotyourbabe10 6,120]

I would start by saying that the Nate Silver's of the world (the 538 statistic website) and other pollsters and predictions were very misleading.  I trusted the statisticians (it is a science after all) and figured Clinton would win.

As much as I keep getting sh!t about how I voted in 2016, I'll continue to own my protest vote.  My state was, and will likely always be, red.  As such, I knew there was nothing to lose given that 45 would get our electoral votes.  I did, however, vote democrat or third party for my local politicians to try to shake things up locally. 
Had I been in a swing state (as some other folks pointed out in this thread), I would have sucked it up and voted for Clinton.  I really tried to use the knowledge of the stats available and the local/federal implications as a voter in a red state. 
That is how science and reason works, using the best available resources to make an informed decision (it is especially tough since "the personal is political").

Anyway, in general, there needs to be a systemic overhaul of the neo-liberal ideologies of the democrats as well as the voting process itself (ranked voting, anyone?).

I understand the frustration within the Democratic party and in the US but we cannot continue to berate one another over how we feel about life's conditions and how we wish the country to develop.
Instead, we should come to the table to talk about why things aren't working within the party and the country (hell, when I voted in the primaries for Bernie in Colorado, these rich, white privileged folks were still going along with the whole, "How are you going to pay for it?!  There's no such thing as a free lunch!" narrative.  I'll come to the table and talk to you but can you see why you're making it difficult?).  
Instead of intra-group fighting, listen to each other's arguments and gently go from there.  (But certainly don't make nice with Nazis and Fascists, racists, misogynists, homophobes and so forth ).

EDIT: For the record, I no longer live in CO -- now in IN.

[Morphine Prince 109,729]

8 hours ago, KleinGa said:

Honey, that’s how all representative surveys are done. What you’re asking for simply isnt done unless they knock on every single bernie supporter’s door. Literally that’s how all polling is done: representative sampling. This is so hilarious that you discard it and call for REAL numbers  

Oh and I never absolved Hillary of any blame.

Ironic because as you have proven, the Bernie stans continue to deny their own fault  They need to take a deep look in the mirror first.

yes, 2020 is right around the corner. Lets hope the bernie stans dont give Trump the presidency again once they lose. Lets hope Bernie doesn’t get extremely bitter again because then, we’d all be in trouble 

I know how polling works. But when you’re accusing a small group of people of handing the election to someone you can’t just use a survey like that. 

I never denied that those Bernie primary voters contributed to Trump’s votes? I’m just arguing they weren’t THE most important factor as you Clinton stans are always saying. 

The fact you just said I am “denying my own fault” I voted for Clinton. I am not a part of those people who voted for Trump. I have ZERO fault for anything.

Your hatred for Bernie is blinding so many years later. Y’all need to get over it.

 

[Morphine Prince 109,729]

1 hour ago, Queen ARTPOP said:

"Effectively" campaign is putting it nicely. She didn't even bother going there once. Instead she campaigned numerous times in Texas (never happening, give it up Delishis) and California(??) and other solidly blue states. Her campaign was utterly clueless about what was happening right under their noses all over the country. Bernie would never.

Ooh no but her campaign was flawless!! There were no mistakes! It was 100% Bernie’s fault!?!?!!

[Mister G 10,513]

1 hour ago, KleinGa said:

The level of Bernie delusion in this thread is astonishing. I see Trump 2020 victory is guaranteed. Congrats Bernie Bros, yall will f*ck us all over yet AGAIN 

Ahh and whose fault will it be this time if Bernie doesn’t get the nomination by the DNC? What will you do if Warren or Biden are the contenders against Trump and he blows them out of the water? The Dems had roughly 20 candidates in the beginning compared to 5 back in the 2016 campaigns. Once again I will state blaming Bernie voters, the small handful of them at least, that swayed towards Trump shouldn’t invalidate the rest who voted for Hillary to make sure Trump didn’t get the win. Non-Voters were the biggest culprits back then.
 

All I’ve seen you accomplish is blame everyone else for Hillary losing 3 years ago. Let it go and move on. Support whoever it is you want to support, but all you’re managing to do is give in to the other side’s objective of dividing voters that typically sway blue/Democratic. You can be upset and point the finger at the “Bernie Bros,” but you can’t deny that people are exhausted by the establishment political bulls*** that’s been haunting us for ages. If you’re going to hate on Bernie, you may as well hate on Kamala, Pete, Tulsi, Warren and everyone else running because we all know the establishment is trying anything and everything to get Biden up there.

[Morphine Prince 109,729]

1 hour ago, KleinGa said:

The level of Bernie delusion in this thread is astonishing. I see Trump 2020 victory is guaranteed. Congrats Bernie Bros, yall will f*ck us all over yet AGAIN 

I see you’re already preparing for when Biden loses to Trump and will blame everyone else but the horrible candidate.